Author Topic: Yet another cheap thermal imager incoming.. Seek Thermal  (Read 801162 times)

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Offline Fraser

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Re: Yet another cheap thermal imager incoming.. Seek Thermal
« Reply #2050 on: September 30, 2015, 03:32:45 pm »
I will not be ordering the SEEK offerings. Getting burned once is enough for me thank you  ;D

I have the new FLIR ONE to play with when it arrives. The inclusion of a visual camera to provide context to an image should not be underestimated. Looks like SEEK have yet to realise this.

My days of buying thermal cameras are coming to a close.... I have way too many already and thinning of the flock is a possibility. One set of eyes can't use 42 thermal cameras simultaneously  ;D

I hope the new SEEK product performs better than the original camera, that's all I have to say on the matter really.

Fraser
« Last Edit: September 30, 2015, 05:19:57 pm by Fraser »
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Offline miguelvp

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Re: Yet another cheap thermal imager incoming.. Seek Thermal
« Reply #2051 on: September 30, 2015, 04:23:10 pm »
BTW Seek released the Android SDK yesterday (at least new to me).

They still have Linux, OSX and iOS in the queue.

The linux ones will include also Raspbian for ARM6 and ARM7 for those that have Raspberry PIs as well as Ubuntu 14.04.

Edit: Forgot Beagle board black support with Debian.

They could be already out, I'm not sure if I only asked for Windows and Android.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2015, 04:26:27 pm by miguelvp »
 

Offline Redshift1340

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Re: Yet another cheap thermal imager incoming.. Seek Thermal
« Reply #2052 on: September 30, 2015, 08:30:04 pm »
The technical specs for the new Seek Reveal are on the pre-order page, unfortunately is says the thermal sensor is 206x156, so it's most probably the same sensor from the Compact and XR.  They got my hopes up when I saw the 240x320 "display resolution" they posted front and center. So lame :(
« Last Edit: September 30, 2015, 08:33:19 pm by Redshift1340 »
 

Offline in.Vitro

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Re: Yet another cheap thermal imager incoming.. Seek Thermal
« Reply #2053 on: September 30, 2015, 08:45:00 pm »
The technical specs for the new Seek Reveal are on the pre-order page, unfortunately is says the thermal sensor is 206x156, so it's most probably the same sensor from the Compact and XR.  They got my hopes up when I saw the 240x320 "display resolution" they posted front and center. So lame :(

Oh okay then..., my guess is now that Seek build the old Sensor/Optics in a bigger case, plugged a crippled down android/linux based device with low res display and sell it as a new inuvation :D

My guess was also right?  :wtf:
 

Offline Redshift1340

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Re: Yet another cheap thermal imager incoming.. Seek Thermal
« Reply #2054 on: September 30, 2015, 09:02:42 pm »
The technical specs for the new Seek Reveal are on the pre-order page, unfortunately is says the thermal sensor is 206x156, so it's most probably the same sensor from the Compact and XR.  They got my hopes up when I saw the 240x320 "display resolution" they posted front and center. So lame :(

Oh okay then..., my guess is now that Seek build the old Sensor/Optics in a bigger case, plugged a crippled down android/linux based device with low res display and sell it as a new inuvation :D


My guess was also right?  :wtf:

Haha yeah you were dead on with that guess.  It's too bad, if they really did have a 320x240 sensor for sale for $400 I would have been the first to line up and buy it.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2015, 12:37:51 am by Redshift1340 »
 

Offline termal lee

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Re: Yet another cheap thermal imager incoming.. Seek Thermal
« Reply #2055 on: September 30, 2015, 10:01:32 pm »
320x240 "resolution" but it is the "lcd resolution". this is evil  >:D  :-DD

well, so we know that therm-app is still our best in line, right now. seems like Seek is still stuck with the sensor. maybe it is about patent, that they havent come up with better sensor. last time Seek won the court fighting over the patent with Flir, Seek got $1.6 Million. they initially got $180M from Flir, to sell their technology of producing microbolometer sensor, but then, they resigned, then went to Raytheon, Flir's biggest competitor, to make their own stuffs. Flir felt they were punk'd and sued them , but somehow lost $1.6M. all we know, is that they were former Flir employee, they know the secret of making the sensor before even joining Flir. they must be in very cautious condition right now, as they are walking on thin ice for patent. this, or idk  :-//
« Last Edit: September 30, 2015, 10:32:36 pm by termal lee »
 

Offline miguelvp

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Re: Yet another cheap thermal imager incoming.. Seek Thermal
« Reply #2056 on: September 30, 2015, 10:15:20 pm »
So for the price of the Flir TG165 that has a display resolution of 176x220 with a 80x60 sensor with a range of -13F to 716F (but wait that's a bit deceptive since it's the IR range, the actual sensor only goes up to 260F) and 8 hours runtime.

That compared to a display resolution of 240x320 with a 206x156 sensor with a range of -40F to 626F on the sensor and 11 hours runtime.

Yeah, it's BS man, what are they thinking?
 

Offline Redshift1340

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Re: Yet another cheap thermal imager incoming.. Seek Thermal
« Reply #2057 on: September 30, 2015, 11:18:35 pm »
So for the price of the Flir TG165 that has a display resolution of 176x220 with a 80x60 sensor with a range of -13F to 716F (but wait that's a bit deceptive since it's the IR range, the actual sensor only goes up to 260F) and 8 hours runtime.

That compared to a display resolution of 240x320 with a 206x156 sensor with a range of -40F to 626F on the sensor and 11 hours runtime.

Yeah, it's BS man, what are they thinking?

No, I agree, it's definitely a great product for a great price.  I was just let down because I was really hoping to see Seek's next sensor, and because I know that Seek can get out a higher resolution sensor to market for a fraction of the cost of current competitors.  I really want a 320x240 imager that I can afford at the moment.
 

Offline termal lee

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Re: Yet another cheap thermal imager incoming.. Seek Thermal
« Reply #2058 on: October 01, 2015, 12:44:51 am »

[/quote]

No, I agree, it's definitely a great product for a great price.  I was just let down because I was really hoping to see Seek's next sensor, and because I know that Seek can get out a higher resolution sensor to market for a fraction of the cost of current competitors.  I really want a 320x240 imager that I can afford at the moment.
[/quote]

try therm-app, bro. it comes with 19mm lens that can detect human from 500yard away.$939, with 45% more pixels than 320x240
 

Offline encryptededdy

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Re: Yet another cheap thermal imager incoming.. Seek Thermal
« Reply #2059 on: October 01, 2015, 01:30:19 am »
Yeah, it's definitely a TG165 / C2 competitor... however I wonder why they didn't put a visible light camera & laser in there instead of the torch... for it's advertised use as a home inspection tool, I would've thought a laser and visible camera would be much more useful.

Even if they can't do MSX or whatever due to patent restrictions, the saved images would still be much more useful when backed up with a visual image too.

@mikeselectricstuff - are you getting one in to teardown?
 

Offline Redshift1340

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Re: Yet another cheap thermal imager incoming.. Seek Thermal
« Reply #2060 on: October 01, 2015, 03:24:32 am »
try therm-app, bro. it comes with 19mm lens that can detect human from 500yard away.$939, with 45% more pixels than 320x240

Thanks for the suggestion.  I actually have seriously considered getting the Therm-App for a few months now, either that or the E4.  The only issue I have with the Therm-App is that I don't own an Android phone, only an iPhone.  So when I factor in the cost of the Therm-app plus the cost of buying a phone to run it, the price is more like $1200-$1400.  I'm now banking on the possibility that the i3 ThermalExpert will be priced below the Therm-App, hopefully $800ish, because on they're website they claim to be releasing an iOS compatible version. Fingers crossed :-\
« Last Edit: October 01, 2015, 03:27:52 am by Redshift1340 »
 

Offline encryptededdy

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Re: Yet another cheap thermal imager incoming.. Seek Thermal
« Reply #2061 on: October 01, 2015, 04:05:18 am »
try therm-app, bro. it comes with 19mm lens that can detect human from 500yard away.$939, with 45% more pixels than 320x240

Thanks for the suggestion.  I actually have seriously considered getting the Therm-App for a few months now, either that or the E4.  The only issue I have with the Therm-App is that I don't own an Android phone, only an iPhone.  So when I factor in the cost of the Therm-app plus the cost of buying a phone to run it, the price is more like $1200-$1400.  I'm now banking on the possibility that the i3 ThermalExpert will be priced below the Therm-App, hopefully $800ish, because on they're website they claim to be releasing an iOS compatible version. Fingers crossed :-\
I wouldn't hold my breath. Every single photo and screenshot that they've released so far has been of a android version.

Judging from the wording on their website, the iOS version is "coming soon", whatever that means.
 

Offline frenky

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Re: Yet another cheap thermal imager incoming.. Seek Thermal
« Reply #2062 on: October 01, 2015, 08:56:02 am »
I find it really disturbing that Seek is using fake images to showcase their products.

They have been using this image for all of their modules (there is no way that this image came from seek module; I know because I own one):


And a photo of the new Reveal module:


Why not just use this image:

 :P
 

Offline encryptededdy

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Re: Yet another cheap thermal imager incoming.. Seek Thermal
« Reply #2063 on: October 01, 2015, 09:12:50 am »
Why not just use this image :P
Nah, use this: http://gigapan.com/gigapans/43079cdc95c18872b8b8a0d43847db68

(Panorama taken with 1344x784 FLIR SC8300 cooled MWIR camera, with a 500mm(!!!) lens).
 

Offline all_repair

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Re: Yet another cheap thermal imager incoming.. Seek Thermal
« Reply #2064 on: October 01, 2015, 10:03:54 am »
Yeah, it's definitely a TG165 / C2 competitor... however I wonder why they didn't put a visible light camera & laser in there instead of the torch... for it's advertised use as a home inspection tool, I would've thought a laser and visible camera would be much more useful.
...
@mikeselectricstuff - are you getting one in to teardown?

Seek is reading my mind very well.  My E4 is for the lab, it is very good but not built to be beside me all the time.  So came the Seek compact, which I had with me all the time, and had used twice on site so far.  BUT seek compact needs a phone to work, and phone with camera are not allowed in many facilities.

Yes, I am also waiting for mike's words before taking out my credit card.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2015, 10:05:38 am by all_repair »
 

Offline encryptededdy

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Re: Yet another cheap thermal imager incoming.. Seek Thermal
« Reply #2065 on: October 01, 2015, 10:37:32 am »
Yeah, it's definitely a TG165 / C2 competitor... however I wonder why they didn't put a visible light camera & laser in there instead of the torch... for it's advertised use as a home inspection tool, I would've thought a laser and visible camera would be much more useful.
...
@mikeselectricstuff - are you getting one in to teardown?

Seek is reading my mind very well.  My E4 is for the lab, it is very good but not built to be beside me all the time.  So came the Seek compact, which I had with me all the time, and had used twice on site so far.  BUT seek compact needs a phone to work, and phone with camera are not allowed in many facilities.

Yes, I am also waiting for mike's words before taking out my credit card.
Yet those facilities allow thermal cameras? Or is it just cameraphones that are disallowed? I would've thought any secure facility would just ban devices with image storage outright.
 

Offline all_repair

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Re: Yet another cheap thermal imager incoming.. Seek Thermal
« Reply #2066 on: October 01, 2015, 11:20:31 am »
Yeah, it's definitely a TG165 / C2 competitor... however I wonder why they didn't put a visible light camera & laser in there instead of the torch... for it's advertised use as a home inspection tool, I would've thought a laser and visible camera would be much more useful.
...
@mikeselectricstuff - are you getting one in to teardown?

Seek is reading my mind very well.  My E4 is for the lab, it is very good but not built to be beside me all the time.  So came the Seek compact, which I had with me all the time, and had used twice on site so far.  BUT seek compact needs a phone to work, and phone with camera are not allowed in many facilities.

Yes, I am also waiting for mike's words before taking out my credit card.
Yet those facilities allow thermal cameras? Or is it just cameraphones that are disallowed? I would've thought any secure facility would just ban devices with image storage outright.

Phones are banned in many areas, sometime due to the RF emission restriction, sometime due to the high resolution camera (some places do allow the old nokia camera with poor resolution).  But my intention is to classify it as a repair tool: thermal measuring instrument as like thermal thermometer and thermal probes.  I admit it can be a grey area that is not defined in the guidebook, and very much shall depend on how it is declared, most guards shall let it through, especially when they do not see the type of pictures that they are used to.
 

Offline Uho

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Re: Yet another cheap thermal imager incoming.. Seek Thermal
« Reply #2067 on: October 01, 2015, 07:17:02 pm »
New Reveal module toy. He can only work indoors. Have you tried to look at the screen under sunlight? I can not see anything. In most cases, the screen is facing up. Very uncomfortable. Attach the macro lens difficult. Using a noisy sensor. Nonsense.
 

Offline in.Vitro

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Re: Yet another cheap thermal imager incoming.. Seek Thermal
« Reply #2068 on: October 01, 2015, 09:29:34 pm »
Here you can see the real image quality of the Seek Reveal... wooow, they've managed to reduced the noise

 

Offline mikeselectricstuff

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Re: Yet another cheap thermal imager incoming.. Seek Thermal
« Reply #2069 on: October 01, 2015, 10:16:10 pm »
@mikeselectricstuff - are you getting one in to teardown?
I got a message a week or so ago offering an as-yet unannounced new product from Seek to do a teardown. Sent them my details but not heard anything back yet - fingers crosssed.
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Offline termal lee

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Re: Yet another cheap thermal imager incoming.. Seek Thermal
« Reply #2070 on: October 01, 2015, 10:37:00 pm »
Uho, i feel the same, the optics side is not too good. and i didnt see the spec said anything about "manual focus" either. lets hope it has " auto focus". but, the range is 500ft, unlike normal compact's 1000ft or xr's 1800ft. i doubt it has the manual or auto focus. but lets just see
« Last Edit: October 01, 2015, 10:46:48 pm by termal lee »
 

Offline Fraser

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Re: Yet another cheap thermal imager incoming.. Seek Thermal
« Reply #2071 on: October 01, 2015, 10:47:03 pm »
Auto focus is normally only to be found on high end thermal cameras. In my collection only the top of the line PM695 has it. It is very much a luxury item on these cameras. Some cameras have motorised focus but that is because they use an internal lens element to focus. Fixed focus with a large depth of field appears the most common choice for the budget end of the market. SEEK did change that with their latest cameras but auto focus would be quite a leap to make.

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Offline encryptededdy

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Re: Yet another cheap thermal imager incoming.. Seek Thermal
« Reply #2072 on: October 02, 2015, 12:17:08 am »
Here you can see the real image quality of the Seek Reveal... wooow, they've managed to reduced the noise


I don't think so... the noise is just low because of the high temperature span of the image hiding the noise.
 

Offline termal lee

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Re: Yet another cheap thermal imager incoming.. Seek Thermal
« Reply #2073 on: October 02, 2015, 02:53:58 am »
Fraser, then it is a bad news for us. there is no lens adjust to manually focus it like in compact version, which makes this product is far behind the compact versions. the range is tagged 500ft while even normal compact is 1000ft. this product IS a let down product.
i hope they come up with better sensor next time, and not make the casing so "ergononic" that we cant attach any lens.
they should just improve the compact's sensor and maybe compete with therm-app, but with chalcogenic lenses which drives the price down
 

Offline encryptededdy

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Re: Yet another cheap thermal imager incoming.. Seek Thermal
« Reply #2074 on: October 02, 2015, 04:24:27 am »
I think the current Seek is pretty let down by it's lens. I say this for two reasons.

1. I seriously doubt Raytheon would produce a "dud" microbolometer. Even if it is for a consumer product.

2. The seek can read very high temperatures (330C) without a filter or switching range or anything. This implies to me that the lens has a very small aperture and isn't letting much IR through to the sensor. Most other IR cameras can't read above ~150C without switching range to one that is low gain / has a ND filter (except the E4, which also has a dark lens).
 


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