Yet another cheap thermal imager incoming.. Seek Thermal

[Fraser]

I can advise that I have used a Thermal camera to spot the location of a blockage. You just run hot water into the pipe and it glows up to the point of the blockage. Very useful when considering how to attack the problem. My scenario was actually a toilet that was blocked by clumping cat litter that had built up over time. I knew exactly how far down the pipe I had to insert a flexible blockage clearing tool.

[termal lee]

did someone ever tried to clean seek's lens? my xr one is the one i use the most, and it gathers much dust. havent noticed any side effects, but it iritates me much

[termal lee]

holly crack! did you guys ever noticed that this thread is the hottest in this forum? 2100 replies and 222.000 views.

i wonder what Seek Thermal admins would react if they know that this thread could be the main info sources for anyone who is gonna buy this cam vs flir one cam.

mike and some other main contributors here are the REAL PIONEER in thermal development! the infos in this thread are the foundation of any best advices in development of thermal cam, and any other developers should pay close atention.

Seek should have thanked Mike and some others for their "free advertisements" on seek compact ( i think no one here likes Reveal version). and they shouldnt take our advices for granted on their "SuperHD resolution sensor" advertisement.

[PA0PBZ]

holly crack! did you guys ever noticed that this thread is the hottest in this forum? 2100 replies and 222.000 views.

Not even close:

Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #7343 on: Today at 09:48:12 »

[termal lee]

aw, my bad. this is still second in line of thermal cam popularity. nonetheles, this thread has been the main source info to all the potential buyer though. Seek Thermal still owes thabks to Mike and some others

[Fraser]

SEEK Thermal lost my support after displaying total disinterest in communicating with their user base. Their product has some serious image quality issues in its intended deployment on a phone and using their app. They could have improved the app in the same way as others have written excellent programs for use with different hosts here. SEEK Thermal had the opportunity to produce a really great little thermal camera. IMHO, they dropped the ball early on in the game and have yet to sort themselves out. This has given FLIR time to release a decent competitor to the SEEK cameras.

Very active threads can exist for many reasons, some good, some bad. If a product is great and encourages much discussion, as in the case of the E4 it is a good sign. If a thread is active because the user base has serious issues with a product and cannot gain satisfaction from the OEM, leading to community support only, that is bad. I feel that this thread falls into the latter case.

Fortunately some clever forum members have overcome many of the SEEK cameras issues using programs running on a different host to that intended for the camera. This does not help users who wish to use the camera on a phone though.

Let us also not forget the hardware limitations that software cannot address.I have never before met such a thermally unstable microbolometer as that used in the SEEK. The repetition rate of the FFC shutter is just plain crazy ! FLIR are using 12um technology in the F1G2 and the FFC shutter operates in the he same fashion as on larger cameras..... Infrequently. Users can even select manual FFC where they decide if or when to use the shutter. The F1G2 camera uses dynamic flat field correction when the shutter is disabled.

Fraser

[termal lee]

i hope Seek reads Fraser's comment and reconsider their responses to people, especially the pro ones, of this thread, like Fraser, Mike, and some others

[miguelvp]

My experience is the opposite, I only had to contact them once regarding an issue with their SDK and I got a response within two hours and the matter resolved.

That said I do agree with Fraser about them keeping things quiet about the deviation of the sensor. Then again they did address the issue.

As for FLIR offerings, they are still limited in the temperature range, so I think there is space for both vendors.

We all know competition is a healthy thing for the consumers point of view. I'm glad there are new players in the field.

[Bud]

Now if Seek only would stop bullshiting people with their fake images, they would be taken more seriously.

[all_repair]

i hope Seek reads Fraser's comment and reconsider their responses to people, especially the pro ones, of this thread, like Fraser, Mike, and some others

My guess is Seek is likely aware of this thread but given their resources (track records, etc etc) not like FLIR, and facing a competitor like FLIR, they have to choose the battle front to fight very carefully.  They might very much choose wrongly.  I do hope they are right, consumers always benefit when there is competition.  They are not doing too badly to me from their product offerinng vs FLIR so far.  I voted for Seek compact with my wallet.  FLIR has been too clever in their low end product offering so far.  Typical behaviours from an established player that has too many high end product to protect?

If there are not too many surprises from Mike's coming review, likely I am going to vote for the Seek reveal.

[miguelvp]

To me the selling point for Seek is the highest temperature range.

Flir range: -20C to 120C

20 degrees Kelvin over boiling water and 20 below freezing water is just a bit limiting as a thermal tool. Specially when in 2013 winter we reached -30C in Chicago

Seek range of -40C to 330C makes it a better thermal tool in my opinion, regardless of any resolution or lack of MSX.

[encryptededdy]

To me the selling point for Seek is the highest temperature range.

Flir range: -20C to 120C

20 degrees Kelvin over boiling water and 20 below freezing water is just a bit limiting as a thermal tool. Specially when in 2013 winter we reached -30C in Chicago

Seek range of -40C to 330C makes it a better thermal tool in my opinion, regardless of any resolution or lack of MSX.

To be fair the FLIR One does display an image down to -40C, it's just that it's not calibrated at that range and therefore accuracy is pretty bad. That said, the Seek's accuracy has never been very good...

[miguelvp]

... That said, the Seek's accuracy has never been very good...

Source?

[termal lee]

encryptededdy might be reverring to the compparison to his Therm-App vs Seek. he has 9hz version of therm-app

[encryptededdy]

... That said, the Seek's accuracy has never been very good...

Source?

Seek Claim +/- 5 degrees C. I'll try to find a source for this.

[encryptededdy]

Source: http://support.thermal.com/hc/communities/public/questions/203789145-Temperature-accuracy

The expected accuracy is usually within +/- 5 degrees

Also the seek lacks emissivity adjustment, which is rather annoying (the old seek app had it - then they removed it!?)

Also sensitivity is addressed here: http://support.thermal.com/hc/communities/public/questions/203781215-Temperature-resolution

The camera can detect as small as 0.1 degree differences, but the app can only report numerical readings in whole degree increments.

So it looks like the NETD is 100mK?

EDIT: Actually I just realised that they didn't explicitly say whether that is Celsius or Fahrenheit it's Fahrenheit. If it is Fahrenheit then that's ~3 degrees C, which isn't bad at all.

That said, can somebody check the Seek accuracy at <0C? I know even on higher end cameras like the FLIR E4, the accuracy drifts off significantly at very low temperatures. I wonder if that is the case with the seek.

[termal lee]

today i tried to clean my Seek XR lens, and the steel windpipe acidentally touched the lens, not hard, just a small bump, and the lens was SCRATCHED kinda bad.

the lens is chalcogenide, and is known for being more "soft" than ZnSe or GaAs or Germanium lenses.

please be very gentle when cleaning the lens of Seek Compact.

anyway, can we use cottonbud for ear to clean this lens?

[Fraser]

IPA on a soft cloth as used for cleaning spectacles. Cotton is not generally a good choice ass a cotton bud can still scratch. When cleaning fine optics it is best try an air blower first. Wet cleaning should employ the 'drag' method to remove dust before any pressure is applied to the cleaning cloth. Sadly the SEEK lens is a bit of a challenge due to its small size.

Fraser

[termal lee]

thanks, Fraser. advice taken 

[Fraser]

As a side note, most thermal cameras have a very important AR coating on all elements. It is this hard and anti reflective coating that is sometimes used to protect a softer lens material. Any visible scratches are often in the AR coating and fortunately they are often pretty harmless to images produced by the camera. Still not a good idea to scratch the AR coating though !

Never be tempted to repolish a thermal camera lens. Doing so will surely remove the AR coating and ruin the lens. These thermal camera  lenses are far more fragile than a conventional visible light lens that will still operate without its objective coating.

Fraser

[termal lee]

advice taken again, Fraser, big thanks 

btw, do anyone know about chalcogenide lens available around? they seem to be much cheaper too, although being more prone to scratches

[Fraser]

The lenses are normally made from GASIR. They are available as stand alone lenses. The lens has to match the needs of the microbolometer in terms of correct illumination and back focus. You are unlikely to find an off the shelf lens that is an identical match to the OEM fitment so some fettling would be needed to provide the correct back focus distance.

Umicore comes to mind as a source of GASIR lenses

http://eom.umicore.com/en/infrared-optics/about-us/

More comment on GASIR lenses here:

http://www.photonics.com/Article.aspx?AID=24318

Fraser

[encryptededdy]

The lenses are normally made from GASIR. They are available as stand alone lenses. The lens has to match the needs of the microbolometer in terms of correct illumination and back focus. You are unlikely to find an off the shelf lens that is an identical match to the OEM figment so some fettling would be needed to provide the correct back focus distance.

Umicore comes to mind as a source of GASIR lenses

http://eom.umicore.com/en/infrared-optics/about-us/

More comment on GASIR lenses here:

http://www.photonics.com/Article.aspx?AID=24318

Fraser

I'm pretty sure GASIR is just a trade name. Ophir Optics also make similar lenses marketed as "SupIR".

http://www.ophiropt.com/infrared-optics/catalog-infrared-lenses/athermalized-lens-for-uncooled-cameras-

[Fraser]

GASIR is a trade name. Others do exist.

Fraser

[termal lee]

seems like Ge is more resistant of scratches. and the material alone, is more expensive.
IR lenses in general are so expensive. lets wait until Seek releases their chalcogenic lenses instead.

and, did someone notice this in ebay?

XR's PRICE IS 228$ !!!