Author Topic: Yet another cheap thermal imager incoming.. Seek Thermal  (Read 711860 times)

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Offline eneuro

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Re: Yet another cheap thermal imager incoming.. Seek Thermal
« Reply #50 on: September 27, 2014, 05:00:47 am »
They do have an IPhone version as well, same price $199 and it should work even with the new IPhones not stuck to the 5s like the Flir module.
I'd like to use this thermal camera just like other cameras under Linux or better Linux based wiki: Robot Operating System (ROS), so it is interesting if this Android version could be detected under Linux and if I coud be able to catch its output frames using OpenCV like in video below (FLIR with ROS module) it would be nice, while I do not like even Android, while it is not fully open source OS.


anyways, looks like their noise reduction isn't as advanced as the Flir (One) Lepton Mike was showing off.
I think It might depend what that app does inside software and what alghorithms were used, while Flir might use diffrent ones and maybe has much better hardware with black body built in calibration between frames.
It is time to check this http://thermal.com/developers.html and see what they ofer for post image processing.
Probably they just developing one of such apps, which I could write myself dedicated to do specific thermal image processing task needed in this project If I had access to raw data from this camera via USB...unless some kind of specyfic protocol to setup Seek Thermal internals hardware is needed.

It looks like USB OTG is needed for this thermal camera.
Quote
"The phone or tablet must have support for USB On The Go, however, or the camera dongle won't work"
Lets see what guys from Seek Thermal support will say about running this thing under Linux or ROS control, while FLIR  have such support as we could see in video above  ;)
« Last Edit: September 27, 2014, 05:04:36 am by eneuro »
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Offline mikeselectricstuff

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Re: Yet another cheap thermal imager incoming.. Seek Thermal
« Reply #51 on: September 27, 2014, 06:05:36 am »
Lets see what guys from Seek Thermal support will say about running this thing under Linux or ROS control, while FLIR  have such support as we could see in video above  ;)
I suspect that to minimise costs, Seek will rely a lot more heavily on software in the host to do processing than the Flir One does, but as it uses USB, it should at least be possible to extract the raw sensor data.
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Offline miguelvp

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Re: Yet another cheap thermal imager incoming.. Seek Thermal
« Reply #52 on: September 27, 2014, 06:46:42 am »
I would suggest you sign up for the Seek developer SDK, I ordered the camera and signed up for SDK access but no news on either.

I know they are waiting for the google app store to have the app before they ship and the ETA is 2 weeks. I would think the SDK will follow later.

I have a TrimSlice with a Tegra 2 that can run both Android and different flavors of Linux, including L4T (Linux for Tegra) I might have a play if I receive the SDK.

But a Jetson K1 devkit might be better (Linux only right now) because it has 192 CUDA cores that can be used for OpenCV.
 

Offline mikeselectricstuff

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Re: Yet another cheap thermal imager incoming.. Seek Thermal
« Reply #53 on: September 27, 2014, 07:53:28 am »
I would suggest you sign up for the Seek developer SDK, I ordered the camera and signed up for SDK access but no news on either.

I know they are waiting for the google app store to have the app before they ship and the ETA is 2 weeks. I would think the SDK will follow later.

I have a TrimSlice with a Tegra 2 that can run both Android and different flavors of Linux, including L4T (Linux for Tegra) I might have a play if I receive the SDK.

But a Jetson K1 devkit might be better (Linux only right now) because it has 192 CUDA cores that can be used for OpenCV.
the software they've shown so far seems to going out of its way to avoid looking like Flir's MSX. I'm sure people will write apps to remedy that...!
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Offline marshallh

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Re: Yet another cheap thermal imager incoming.. Seek Thermal
« Reply #54 on: September 27, 2014, 08:29:35 am »
I have a USB analyzer so I will MITM the android/TIC connection and get some trace for you all. I hate software and I'd rather talk to the chipset directly but maybe someone will find a use for it.
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Offline marshallh

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Re: Yet another cheap thermal imager incoming.. Seek Thermal
« Reply #55 on: September 27, 2014, 01:21:55 pm »
According to twitter they are launching Android app and commencing shipment in about 1 week.
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Offline eneuro

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Re: Yet another cheap thermal imager incoming.. Seek Thermal
« Reply #56 on: September 27, 2014, 09:29:58 pm »
But a Jetson K1 devkit might be better (Linux only right now) because it has 192 CUDA cores that can be used for OpenCV.
It looks really nity and I can use this thing in one of the projects even without thermal camera, while with its CUDA accelearted OpenCV I will be able probably detect objects in the scene using cheap classic camera and make movements detections in real time  :-+
The question is which is operating temperature range of this small board and if it can work at temperatures close to 0*C, but probably lower ambient temperatures might be issue for this Seek Thermal camera too  :-\
Additionally this board has of course I2C support and even serial port, so my old I2C 5kV optoisolated PCB can be used for testing without any major design changes I guess.

However, this The NVIDIA® SHIELD™ tablet with similar powerfull support for OpenCV and 8" HD 1920x1080 screen and Android (I hope with CUDA support) might be straightforward way to change this Seek Thermal USB gadget into usable thermal imagining thing and I have another project where OpenCV with thermal camera and scene highlighted by IR light could do this job in realtime  8)


It has builtin cameras, so at a price of around $300 by adding $200 for thermal we get really interesting possibilities, while this thing can transfer gaming video to another monitor, etc.  :o

When compared new iPhone 6 marketing spam from here: http://www.apple.com/iphone-6/ with its big screen size 4.7" It was difficult to stop laughing :-DD
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iPhone 6 isn’t simply bigger — it’s better in every way. Larger, yet dramatically thinner. More powerful, but remarkably power efficient.
It looks like crappy toy for childrens to play old fashion tetris  ;D

BTW: Anyone knows patent number of this Flir's MSX technology just to see what is behind this-sophisticated hardware and video capture sequence, I guess?
« Last Edit: September 27, 2014, 09:41:24 pm by eneuro »
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Offline callipso

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Re: Yet another cheap thermal imager incoming.. Seek Thermal
« Reply #57 on: September 28, 2014, 03:18:23 am »
To my American friends:

Would anyone be willing to order one Seek for me and ship it over to the Czech Republic (EU)?

Thanks in advance :)
I wonder... **BOOM
 

Offline miguelvp

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Re: Yet another cheap thermal imager incoming.. Seek Thermal
« Reply #58 on: September 28, 2014, 03:36:27 am »
@eneuro

NVidia has an automotive version of the Jetson K1, not sure on pricing or temperature specs:

http://www.nvidia.com/object/jetson-automotive-development-platform.html

They also have a visual computing module for cars, no idea on temperature specs either:

http://www.nvidia.com/object/visual-computing-module.html

Yeah that tablet they have looks cool, only problem is that not many game publishers are going to port full fledge games to android,but that might(will) change in the future.

For example at work my video card it's just a gx440 with a bit under 500 CUDA cores, but it beats the K1 in graphics bandwidth by not much. Still you can power the K1 with a battery :)

 

Offline imau

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Re: Yet another cheap thermal imager incoming.. Seek Thermal
« Reply #59 on: September 28, 2014, 04:11:05 am »
AirVR + Seek Thrrmal = predator view.

AirVR kickstarter: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/768618350/airvr-virtual-reality-for-ios
 

Offline Alexei.Polkhanov

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Re: Yet another cheap thermal imager incoming.. Seek Thermal
« Reply #60 on: September 28, 2014, 05:31:19 am »
That is what those Chinese sensors are good for IMHO - see through Oculus Rift kind of gadget. If sensor can handle 60FPS - there will be enough frame rate to switch between left/right eye and enabling stereo vision. I am not sure if it is possible to switch between two lenses using some kind of liquid Crystal shutter device, but I assume same technology that used in 3D glasses can be used here. I think thermal vision sensors are still too big and heavy to fit two in one headset.

As many here already pointed out if all components are sourced in China there is no need to worry about stupid export restrictions - ship anywhere you want around the globe. Oculus Rift Predator edition! I know some guys from Montreal who have designed Virtual Reality headset like that with regular cameras: http://www.reuters.com/article/slideshow/idUSKBN0HB1YD20140916#a=3. If things will go well Predators will have to source their vision gear on this planet!  8)

« Last Edit: September 28, 2014, 05:33:05 am by Alexei.Polkhanov »
 

Offline miguelvp

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Re: Yet another cheap thermal imager incoming.. Seek Thermal
« Reply #61 on: September 28, 2014, 05:51:07 am »
I have yet to see the output image from one of those Chinese sensors, let alone video of them at 60FPS
 

Offline mikeselectricstuff

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Re: Yet another cheap thermal imager incoming.. Seek Thermal
« Reply #62 on: September 28, 2014, 05:53:26 am »
That is what those Chinese sensors are good for IMHO - see through Oculus Rift kind of gadget. If sensor can handle 60FPS - there will be enough frame rate to switch between left/right eye and enabling stereo vision. I am not sure if it is possible to switch between two lenses using some kind of liquid Crystal shutter device,
Nope
Quote
but I assume same technology that used in 3D glasses can be used here. I think thermal vision sensors are still too big and heavy to fit two in one headset.
No, just rather expensive
Quote
As many here already pointed out if all components are sourced in China there is no need to worry about stupid export restrictions - ship anywhere you want around the globe.
I'd be surprised if China didn't have similar restrictions
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Offline Alexei.Polkhanov

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Re: Yet another cheap thermal imager incoming.. Seek Thermal
« Reply #63 on: September 28, 2014, 06:08:34 am »
That is what those Chinese sensors are good for IMHO - see through Oculus Rift kind of gadget. If sensor can handle 60FPS - there will be enough frame rate to switch between left/right eye and enabling stereo vision. I am not sure if it is possible to switch between two lenses using some kind of liquid Crystal shutter device,
Nope
Well, Nvidia does it pretty well. I have them at work. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Active_shutter_3D_system so why not do it in reverse ?
 

Offline callipso

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Re: Yet another cheap thermal imager incoming.. Seek Thermal
« Reply #64 on: September 28, 2014, 06:31:44 am »
That is what those Chinese sensors are good for IMHO - see through Oculus Rift kind of gadget. If sensor can handle 60FPS - there will be enough frame rate to switch between left/right eye and enabling stereo vision. I am not sure if it is possible to switch between two lenses using some kind of liquid Crystal shutter device,
Nope
Well, Nvidia does it pretty well. I have them at work. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Active_shutter_3D_system so why not do it in reverse ?

Because L/MWIR is not manipulable with the same technologies as visible light is.
I wonder... **BOOM
 

Offline Alexei.Polkhanov

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Re: Yet another cheap thermal imager incoming.. Seek Thermal
« Reply #65 on: September 28, 2014, 06:49:10 am »
Good point, I did not think of that. So common liquid crystal shutter will be transparent to IR? I cannot seem to find good source in this. What about DMD? I mean Digital Micro Mirror Devices? (http://www.ti.com/lsds/ti/analog/dlp/overview.page Maybe that is the solution for switching between lenses?
 

Offline miguelvp

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Re: Yet another cheap thermal imager incoming.. Seek Thermal
« Reply #66 on: September 28, 2014, 07:17:42 am »
Good point, I did not think of that. So common liquid crystal shutter will be transparent to IR? I cannot seem to find good source in this. What about DMD? I mean Digital Micro Mirror Devices? (http://www.ti.com/lsds/ti/analog/dlp/overview.page Maybe that is the solution for switching between lenses?

But the mirrors have to reflect the IR as well, here is a link I posted in page 3 about IR materials:
http://www.edmundoptics.com/technical-resources-center/optics/the-correct-material-for-infrared-applications
 

Offline callipso

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Re: Yet another cheap thermal imager incoming.. Seek Thermal
« Reply #67 on: September 28, 2014, 03:41:17 pm »
Good point, I did not think of that. So common liquid crystal shutter will be transparent to IR? I cannot seem to find good source in this. What about DMD? I mean Digital Micro Mirror Devices? (http://www.ti.com/lsds/ti/analog/dlp/overview.page Maybe that is the solution for switching between lenses?

As long as there's glass involved, thermal IR will be reflected right off the surface.
I wonder... **BOOM
 

Offline Bud

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Re: Yet another cheap thermal imager incoming.. Seek Thermal
« Reply #68 on: September 29, 2014, 04:47:51 am »
Warning: When wearing that stupid contraption on your head, do not do this:

 |O 
 

Offline Alexei.Polkhanov

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Re: Yet another cheap thermal imager incoming.. Seek Thermal
« Reply #69 on: September 29, 2014, 05:17:49 am »
Well it allow you to augment reality and add a virtual wall that you can bang your head on, virtually. ;D
 

Offline tom66

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Re: Yet another cheap thermal imager incoming.. Seek Thermal
« Reply #70 on: September 30, 2014, 05:35:40 am »
If someone has a Seek Thermal device they decide they don't want and can ship to the UK, let me know. I'll pay above MSRP including shipping.
 

Offline eneuro

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Re: Yet another cheap thermal imager incoming.. Seek Thermal
« Reply #71 on: September 30, 2014, 06:54:46 am »
Well, Nvidia does it pretty well. I have them at work. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Active_shutter_3D_system so why not do it in reverse ?
I will never ever wear active shutter 3D glasses, while only wiki: Polarized 3D system makes sense in my opinion.
3D active shutter 3D glasses needs battery or even worse wires and are often hard to use for prolonged periods of time.

I try remove even any flickering lights at home, while this kind of light even at 50Hz mains is easy to detect when objects are moveing (one can see a few images of the same thing catched by 100Hz light power bursts) and it is nasty that in XXI century we have such poor lighting and have to make investigations in shops before buying 230VAC LED lamps or other light sources with constant current to ensure there is no flickering  :palm:
Tesla had great idea to transfer energy to homes using AC voltage especially 3 phase, but using 1 phase  to directly power light bulbs without convertion to filtered nice not flickering light might be a huge mistake and I do not believe in that human eye will not see diference when >25Hz frequency is used, because this is not this what human eye was used to see during so many years of its evolution-Sun light.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2014, 06:57:50 am by eneuro »
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Offline mikeselectricstuff

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Re: Yet another cheap thermal imager incoming.. Seek Thermal
« Reply #72 on: October 03, 2014, 08:42:55 am »
Interesting - according to this article Seek has a shutter - Due to the low cost I'd assumed it would have dispensed with this.
http://t.co/uAahGT58pm
Quote
It makes a constant clicking noise as it runs. That’s the sound of the thermal imager automatically recalibrating itself


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Offline Fraser

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Re: Yet another cheap thermal imager incoming.. Seek Thermal
« Reply #73 on: October 03, 2014, 09:04:52 am »
Some detail on the Raytheon sensor would be great, but it looks like we will have to wait until a teardown to see what lives inside. I am still very impressed with what Seek have achieved. The $199 asking price is way lower than I would have expected at this point in time. The images appear a little noisy for my liking but for the asking price and the resolution provided, its a bargain.

Of course the Seek also provides Mu with the perfect excuse for the failure of their product. How long after the Seeks release before Mu close their camera project stating that their amazing new innovative technology has been overtaken by recent developments. Seek must be using those easily available and massively overstocked  (so cheap) missile guidance thermal camera cores that they mentioned  :-DD
« Last Edit: October 03, 2014, 09:06:37 am by Aurora »
 

Offline Fraser

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Re: Yet another cheap thermal imager incoming.. Seek Thermal
« Reply #74 on: October 03, 2014, 09:22:39 am »
I have just seen that FLIR have released a new medium and high resolution miniature TIC core, named the MEON. The cores are getting very compact, very quickly  :)  I would love the 640 model and some decent optics to drive it.

Take a look here:

http://www.flir.com/cvs/cores/view/?id=64979
 


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