Author Topic: Yet another cheap thermal imager incoming.. Seek Thermal  (Read 805950 times)

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Offline frenky

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Re: Yet another cheap thermal imager incoming.. Seek Thermal
« Reply #2175 on: November 04, 2015, 08:56:31 am »
I really don't understand why they don't release the SDK already....

They had no problem with releasing barely functional thermal camera to consumer market.
So why complicate things with release of SDK which will be used only by developers?

Those of us that are working with Microsoft technologies are already used of buggy software...
 

Offline bsliv

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Re: Yet another cheap thermal imager incoming.. Seek Thermal
« Reply #2176 on: November 04, 2015, 08:35:23 pm »
Seek Thermal was on our local news today.  The Specialty Equipment Market Association (SEMA) car convention is in town.  One "expert" quickly reviewed about 10 products.  The second product, and his favorite, was the Seek.  No mention of the model, the price, or the competition.  He showed a pic of a hot car engine and a selfie. 

Why would Seek limit distribution of the SDK?  How much trouble would one get in if they posted the SDK?


WELCOME 2
ABOUT THE SEEKWARE SDK 3
THE SEEKWARE MAKER API 3
THE SEEKWARE MAKER LIBRARIES 3
THE SEEKWARE API 4
ENUMERATIONS AND USER DEFINED TYPES 5
ENUMERATIONS 5
USER DEFINED TYPES 7
SDK INFORMATION 8
FUNCTIONS 9
SEEKWARE_FIND 10
SEEKWARE_OPEN 11
SEEKWARE_CLOSE 12
SEEKWARE_GETSETTING 14
SEEKWARE_SETSETTING 15
SEEKWARE_GETIMAGE 16
THE SEEKWARE LIBRARY 17
DESKTOP PLATFORMS 17
WINDOWS 18
LINUX 18
OS X 18
MOBILE PLATFORMS 19
ANDROID 19
IOS 19
SAMPLE APPLICATIONS 20
WINDOWS SAMPLE 20
LINUX SAMPLES 22
OS X SAMPLE 28
ANDROID SAMPLE 28
IOS SAMPLE 30
SUPPORT 35
ATTRIBUTIONS 36
TABLE OF FIGURES 37
INDEX 38
 

Offline frenky

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Re: Yet another cheap thermal imager incoming.. Seek Thermal
« Reply #2177 on: November 06, 2015, 11:20:48 am »
If you share it with me I can guaranty you that I won't tell anyone.  ;D

BTW:
Did anyone try to probe this signals coming from Seeks sensor?

« Last Edit: November 08, 2015, 08:21:57 am by frenky »
 

Offline frenky

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Re: Yet another cheap thermal imager incoming.. Seek Thermal
« Reply #2178 on: November 06, 2015, 12:09:51 pm »
I used marshallh image to show where sensor pins are accessible (pink-easy access, green - hard):
 
 

Offline frenky

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Re: Yet another cheap thermal imager incoming.. Seek Thermal
« Reply #2179 on: November 06, 2015, 12:13:12 pm »
This info might be useful to somebody who's trying to understand Seek sensor.

JTAG:
I couldn't find where (if anywhere the other 3 pins come out):



EDIT:
Another 2 jtag pins can be accessible on the other side:
« Last Edit: November 06, 2015, 12:38:28 pm by frenky »
 

Offline frenky

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Re: Yet another cheap thermal imager incoming.. Seek Thermal
« Reply #2180 on: November 07, 2015, 05:59:22 pm »
Getting very close to outputting clean images.

Most of the crazy jumping pixels are now under control.
Chart shows values of first 250 pixels for 1 hour. Then I pressed the "magic" calibrate button and recorded pixel values for another 15min.
The result is very promising so now I'm ready to start producing clean thermal images:
 

Offline miguelvp

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Re: Yet another cheap thermal imager incoming.. Seek Thermal
« Reply #2181 on: November 07, 2015, 07:02:40 pm »
That's pretty awesome. Can't wait to see the resulting images.
 

Offline termal lee

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Re: Yet another cheap thermal imager incoming.. Seek Thermal
« Reply #2182 on: November 07, 2015, 10:59:21 pm »
Franky, Seek should really thank you for this. we all should too  :-+
 

Offline frenky

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Re: Yet another cheap thermal imager incoming.. Seek Thermal
« Reply #2183 on: November 08, 2015, 08:21:31 am »
Thank you guys for your support. I'll do my best not to disappoint you.
 

Offline frenky

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Re: Yet another cheap thermal imager incoming.. Seek Thermal
« Reply #2184 on: November 09, 2015, 08:43:30 pm »
I tried outputting some images but I was not happy with the results so I changed a lot of code...

I decided that instead of trying to fix recorded pixels I'll try to predict future drifting...
So now I instead of waiting for an hour for sensor to stabilise I'm calculating drifting angle of each pixel so I can predict where it will be at next capture.

Results are now better (see below).
Left is correction of drifting with fixed value and right is with progressive value. I believe that this is a much better approach...
(Images were taken every 15 seconds)
« Last Edit: November 09, 2015, 08:45:18 pm by frenky »
 
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Online Fraser

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Re: Yet another cheap thermal imager incoming.. Seek Thermal
« Reply #2185 on: November 09, 2015, 08:55:11 pm »
Impressive work Frenky
Cogito, ergo sum
 

Offline arsenix

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Re: Yet another cheap thermal imager incoming.. Seek Thermal
« Reply #2186 on: November 09, 2015, 08:59:11 pm »
Are those images of a calibrated thermal surface? (or something close :) ) I assume based on your previous post these are taken after the device has stabilized in temperature for a long period?

I'm not sure why the pixels would still be so unstable in that case. Maybe Seek's post processing is screwing it up. With an isothermal target image and thermally stable imager... the resulting image should really be pretty constant.
 

Offline frenky

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Re: Yet another cheap thermal imager incoming.. Seek Thermal
« Reply #2187 on: November 09, 2015, 09:09:12 pm »
Yeah Seek was pointed to a thick aluminium plate painted with black matte silicone paint.
The drifting is just horrible... Even after an hour pixels are still drifting quite a bit.
 

Offline arsenix

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Re: Yet another cheap thermal imager incoming.. Seek Thermal
« Reply #2188 on: November 09, 2015, 09:58:17 pm »
Could the temperature of the imager itself still be moving around with ambient changes? Just for the sake of science you could try placing it in a dark insulated box to protect it from ambient air and light.

About how much (percentage wise) are the pixels changing per frame? I really wonder if Seek's processing is adding to the noise in this artificial test scenario. Hard to say since they don't really let us in on what they are doing in the device.
 

Offline frenky

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Re: Yet another cheap thermal imager incoming.. Seek Thermal
« Reply #2189 on: November 09, 2015, 10:22:02 pm »
I'm talking from my head but i would say that pixels drift for about 20 per frame. If pixel changes value from 8000 to 8020 that is only 0.25% change. But 20 is about 0.5*C so in "low contrast" scenes that is an issue.

Sent from my LG-D855 using Tapatalk

 

Offline arsenix

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Re: Yet another cheap thermal imager incoming.. Seek Thermal
« Reply #2190 on: November 09, 2015, 10:30:03 pm »
How many bits are the values that get returned? 14 bits?

500mK of noise isn't bad if the accuracy is good as well. It isn't amazing either but I'd say anything under 1K noise is a whole lot better than what it offers out of the box...
 

Offline frenky

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Re: Yet another cheap thermal imager incoming.. Seek Thermal
« Reply #2191 on: November 09, 2015, 10:44:48 pm »
Here is some info about raw values: https://github.com/lod/seek-thermal-documentation/wiki/Temperature-Values

Sent from my LG-D855 using Tapatalk

 

Offline encryptededdy

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Re: Yet another cheap thermal imager incoming.. Seek Thermal
« Reply #2192 on: November 09, 2015, 10:46:18 pm »
I found with the Therm-App (which doesn't have a cal shutter) that when you change the temperature of the target object or the sensor significantly, the noise pattern / drift / nonuniformity changes significantly in amplitude. While the pattern stays the same, the amplitude changes pretty significantly.
 

Offline arsenix

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Re: Yet another cheap thermal imager incoming.. Seek Thermal
« Reply #2193 on: November 09, 2015, 10:57:23 pm »
That is pretty typical. Each pixel in the microbolometer has a different offset/gain that is highly dependent to the device temperature. Full calibration is possible, but is not trivial.

This is a pretty research paper where they did just an offset calibration. The results show that the gain also needs calibration for good results:
  http://www.researchgate.net/publication/233864820_Method_of_detectors_offset_correction_in_thermovision_camera_with_uncooled_microbolometric_focal_plane_array

In this paper they came up with a model for the offset relative to temperature that held well to reality. Armed with this they were able to calibrate both offset and gain vs temperature without doing a full 2d matrix of device and target temperatures (which would take forever):
  http://www.coe.montana.edu/ee/jshaw/publications/Correcting%20FPA%20temp%20dependence%20-%20Nugent%20et%20al%20-%20OptEng%202013.pdf
 

Offline frenky

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Re: Yet another cheap thermal imager incoming.. Seek Thermal
« Reply #2194 on: November 10, 2015, 07:53:54 am »
I found with the Therm-App (which doesn't have a cal shutter) that when you change the temperature of the target object or the sensor significantly, the noise pattern / drift / nonuniformity changes significantly in amplitude. While the pattern stays the same, the amplitude changes pretty significantly.

Yes I noticed this. When Seek is pointed to isothermal plane the first frame after calibration is usually really clean.
But If I point it to a corner of the room which has 2*C less the noise really pops out...
 

Offline Alekov509

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Re: Yet another cheap thermal imager incoming.. Seek Thermal
« Reply #2195 on: November 15, 2015, 07:50:51 am »
Hi, everybody.

Watching this forum since last year end - Thank you for your deep investigation of the subject device. Here below some coins from my side for practical usage of Seek Thermal with Sony Xperia phone with side usb socket. Used for almost 10 month out of trouble.
Materials:
1. soft bumper case for the phone,
2. a piece of rubber core rope(abt 30mm lenght, 3 mm dia),
3. usb socket set micro for mobile . 
4. usb wire cord from any stuff - 2 inch lenght
5. a little piece of sheet metal(jerrycan etc)
6. 5min epoxy
7. 30-40 min of free time.

- Place the Seek at the most desirable(for you) position at the back of your phone,
- then pierce two holes in the bumper
- insert the strand and check the length, then cut,
- make two cheese shaped end washers from metal by scissors,
- fix ends of rope with washers,
- mix epoxy and apply to rope ends, cover with adhesive tape,
- insert the phone into the bumper, wait abt 1 hr,
- attach Seek,
- check the required lenght of usb cable by placing both usb male and female into respective socket,
- solder otg cable as required, then fix wires at both connections by drops of epoxy.

The benefit of short usb cable I've got with this - the cable may be stored inside the Seek Thermal suppled box.
Pls see pictures for deails.
P.S. :) another option discovered - I can hold the phone faced down untouched :).

Hope above may be useful for any user having the phone with side usb connector.
Regards.
 

Offline encryptededdy

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Re: Yet another cheap thermal imager incoming.. Seek Thermal
« Reply #2196 on: November 15, 2015, 08:56:11 am »
snip
Off topic: You have one of those Sony lens style cameras...! (I assume). I thought nobody bought them.
 

Offline Alekov509

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Re: Yet another cheap thermal imager incoming.. Seek Thermal
« Reply #2197 on: November 15, 2015, 09:13:54 am »
That's right, QX10 has been gifted to me.
 

Offline in.Vitro

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Re: Yet another cheap thermal imager incoming.. Seek Thermal
« Reply #2198 on: November 18, 2015, 09:26:58 pm »
Found this on youtube

 

Offline encryptededdy

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Re: Yet another cheap thermal imager incoming.. Seek Thermal
« Reply #2199 on: November 19, 2015, 03:30:17 am »
Still no emissivity adjustment :/
 


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