Author Topic: Commodore 1084s-P1 CRT repair  (Read 14822 times)

0 Members and 3 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline djosTopic starter

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 991
  • Country: au
Re: Commodore 1084s-P1 CRT repair
« Reply #25 on: October 18, 2017, 11:13:18 pm »
I had no idea there was a 1084 with a bezel looking like the 1950. Thanks for sharing!

No worries.

There are a whole bunch of Philips and Daewoo based Commodore monitors that look like this including the 1083, 1084 & 1085. Here's a great resource that even has pics:

http://gona.mactar.hu/Commodore/monitor/Commodore_monitors_by_model_number.html

PS, the 1950 does look a bit different tho:


Offline djosTopic starter

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 991
  • Country: au
Re: Commodore 1084s-P1 CRT repair
« Reply #26 on: October 18, 2017, 11:20:11 pm »
Btw, Wagner Online have sent me a new Power switch so hopefully it'll arrive shortly.

Offline Alex Eisenhut

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3430
  • Country: ca
  • Place text here.
Re: Commodore 1084s-P1 CRT repair
« Reply #27 on: October 18, 2017, 11:22:40 pm »
I'm just baffled by the sheer amount of monitor models C= pumped out. Why so many?
Hoarder of 8-bit Commodore relics and 1960s Tektronix 500-series stuff. Unconventional interior decorator.
 

Offline djosTopic starter

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 991
  • Country: au
Re: Commodore 1084s-P1 CRT repair
« Reply #28 on: October 18, 2017, 11:26:20 pm »
I'm just baffled by the sheer amount of monitor models C= pumped out. Why so many?

They were all made by 3rd parties so that likely has something to do with it. They did also have to keep adding support for different video standards in use by the Vic20, c64, c128, PC and Amiga models

Offline djosTopic starter

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 991
  • Country: au
Re: Commodore 1084s-P1 CRT repair
« Reply #29 on: October 18, 2017, 11:30:33 pm »
And lets not forget the various world voltage standards 110v & 220v plus the different power/video frequencies 50hz and 60hz.

Offline djosTopic starter

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 991
  • Country: au
Re: Commodore 1084s-P1 CRT repair
« Reply #30 on: October 21, 2017, 08:05:42 am »
So my replacement switch arrived yesterday and has now been installed. The monitor works great with Analogue RGB (picture is perfect) but I'm seeing some weirdness with TTL-RGB (aka CGA), picture is soft and colours are weird (white text is pinkish and soft) so it looks like I might need to check a few more things on it.

Offline 108CAM

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 41
  • Country: au
  • SkyRC MC3000 Forever!
Re: Commodore 1084s-P1 CRT repair
« Reply #31 on: October 20, 2023, 03:52:30 am »
Bringing this thread back because I have a Commodore 1084S monitor that I took out of our attic because my interest in computers has resparked and I'd like to see if it still works.

I know some stuff about CRT displays and the hazards associated with them in regards to high voltage that can still be present long after the monitor has been switched off and unplugged. Well in my case, the monitor has been sitting without power for over 20 years so I doubt that there's still any voltage left inside. My main concern is that the electronics have sat unpowered for so long that they may no longer work.

Here's a photo of the monitor.


Yes it's tied up with Telstra Rope. I did this so I could lower it from the attic in a (mostly) safe and controlled manner without shattering the picture tube or falling off the ladder and having a computer monitor hit me a few seconds later.

Back to the monitor now.
I know how violent a CRT implosion can be. I've seen videos on YouTube that showcase how violent a CRT can be if it implodes. I also know that the flyback transformer and it's circuitry are where the high voltage that everyone warns everyone about is located and that discharging the capacitors and removing the suction cup from the tube is the first thing you should do after unscrewing the casing.

Lastly, whenever I'm working on something and feel that what I'm trying to do is outside my confidence level, I won't do it until I feel confident enough to do so or I have someone else who can do the work for me.
Hopefully I can get it working. My ultimate goal is to acquire a C128 system to use with the monitor as it was a very common combination for it's time.
Slowly mastering the art of salvaging 18650's.
Getting better with each pack but still have yet to accomplish my goal of a spark free salvage.
I'll get there someday.
 

Offline vk6zgo

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 7699
  • Country: au
Re: Commodore 1084s-P1 CRT repair
« Reply #32 on: October 20, 2023, 06:29:04 am »
Bringing this thread back because I have a Commodore 1084S monitor that I took out of our attic because my interest in computers has resparked and I'd like to see if it still works.

I know some stuff about CRT displays and the hazards associated with them in regards to high voltage that can still be present long after the monitor has been switched off and unplugged. Well in my case, the monitor has been sitting without power for over 20 years so I doubt that there's still any voltage left inside. My main concern is that the electronics have sat unpowered for so long that they may no longer work.

Here's a photo of the monitor.


Yes it's tied up with Telstra Rope. I did this so I could lower it from the attic in a (mostly) safe and controlled manner without shattering the picture tube or falling off the ladder and having a computer monitor hit me a few seconds later.

Back to the monitor now.
I know how violent a CRT implosion can be. I've seen videos on YouTube that showcase how violent a CRT can be if it implodes. I also know that the flyback transformer and it's circuitry are where the high voltage that everyone warns everyone about is located and that discharging the capacitors and removing the suction cup from the tube is the first thing you should do after unscrewing the casing.

Lastly, whenever I'm working on something and feel that what I'm trying to do is outside my confidence level, I won't do it until I feel confident enough to do so or I have someone else who can do the work for me.
Hopefully I can get it working. My ultimate goal is to acquire a C128 system to use with the monitor as it was a very common combination for it's time.

Many of the warnings about implosion of picture tubes are a relic of the very early days of large (for then) CRT tubes, mainly WW2 military PPI RADAR displays, where the glass thickness was very much less than later tubes, partly for Wartime austerity reasons, but also because it was difficult enough to obtain sufficient brightness, even without the optical losses of heavy glass construction or heavy safety faceplates.

With the rapid development of domestic TV receivers, real world practicality demanded much more rugged tube construction, whilst, fortunately, coinciding with much more sensitive phosphors & more convenient methods of producing EHT.
For a number of years, these were combined with separate glass faceplates, then, coincident with the replacement of 17" & 21" tubes with 19" & 23" types, bonded faces were fitted.
The latter development was in the very early 1960s.

Later, "prestressed" designs were used, which concentrated any implosive forces away from the screen, into the very much smaller neck area, where the amount of glass available to possibly cause damage is much less.

After a general, but not close, association with CRTs for years, I changed jobs & became, as one of my duties, in charge of "Monitor Maintenance" at a TV Studio.
During my 10 years there, I worked inside many monitors & changed a large number of picture tubes.

The dead CRTs were taken out the back of the building & chucked (from a safe distance) into a large metal dumpster.
Mostly, the necks were broken on impact, with a gentle sigh, & that was that.
Some survived such treatment, so for those, we had a long length of metal "star picket" which we used to crack the necks, with the same gentle sigh resulting.

As the Commodore Monitor was a mid-late 1980s product, its CRT would have had all of the later developments included, as well as being a quite small tube to begin with.

As to EHT, if it is working, you have little reason to mess with it.
The manufacturers provide quite good insulation, so inadvertently touching it is most unlikely.

What you might encounter is the several hundred volts of horizontal or vertical signals on the deflection yoke, which can give you
a nasty surprise but are not a serious danger.

What really are the BIG "bities" are those places which are fed from the Mains, like the power transformer primary, if one is used, or more probably the SMPS (note; these also have nice big electrolytic caps charged to rectified Mains), & lastly, the thermistor in line with the degaussing coil.
 
The following users thanked this post: helius, 108CAM

Offline 108CAM

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 41
  • Country: au
  • SkyRC MC3000 Forever!
Re: Commodore 1084s-P1 CRT repair
« Reply #33 on: October 20, 2023, 10:33:09 am »
Got some good news!
I cleaned off the dust, checked over the electronics and gave it the All Clear for testing.
The first test was inconclusive because the power button popped out. (This is a very common issue with Commodore 1084 series monitors)
Second test and first "real" test (I say real because it had power this time) and it fired up like it was fresh out of the box!

This photo paints a thousand words when it comes to "They don't make things the way they used to"
Screen is grey because there was no video input. I did connect a VCR to do a more accurate test and it looked and sounded great.


Very happy to have it working while learning a bit about CRT tubes along the way!

Slowly mastering the art of salvaging 18650's.
Getting better with each pack but still have yet to accomplish my goal of a spark free salvage.
I'll get there someday.
 

Offline Alex Eisenhut

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3430
  • Country: ca
  • Place text here.
Re: Commodore 1084s-P1 CRT repair
« Reply #34 on: October 20, 2023, 02:03:32 pm »
I had a 1084 for my Amiga and it didn't look like that, one of the things about Commodore that still amazes me is the sheer amount of monitor models they put out.
I have a 1080 now.
Hoarder of 8-bit Commodore relics and 1960s Tektronix 500-series stuff. Unconventional interior decorator.
 

Offline 108CAM

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 41
  • Country: au
  • SkyRC MC3000 Forever!
Re: Commodore 1084s-P1 CRT repair
« Reply #35 on: October 21, 2023, 12:04:43 am »
I had a 1084 for my Amiga and it didn't look like that, one of the things about Commodore that still amazes me is the sheer amount of monitor models they put out.
I have a 1080 now.

I'm also amazed at how many monitor models Commodore had, especially with the 1084 series on its own.
Here's some history about the 1084 for anyone who is curious.

The 1084 was made in quite a few variations. Older 1084s have the power button on the front and the input plugs on the back were updated multiple times during the time the 1084 was in production. The 1084 was originally equipped with round DIN style connectors and the 4 RCA jacks. The DIN ports were later replaced with an RGB port that looks similar to a VGA connection but only has 9 pin holes.

Many older 1084s have a knockout plate for a SCART connector however the connector was rarely used. I have yet to see a picture of a 1084 with a factory installed SCART connecter.

Another thing that was changed is the design of the stand. It was originally located under where the screen is but was later redesigned and moved in closer to the middle, perhaps for better weight distribution since the front of the CRT (including the glass safety panel that is stuck to the front of the tube) is the heaviest part and the original stands were pretty much holding most of this weight.

The design of the stand may have also been a result of when Commodore changed OEMs for the 1084. The original 1084s were manufactured by Philips and were basically rebranded CM8833 monitors in white cases. The newer 1084s were manufactured by Daewoo in Korea and the design saw some alterations. The supplier of picture tubes also changed at least twice during the Daewoo era. I've seen 1084s with tubes made by Samsung and Orion. (Ironically, my 1084 is a Daewoo unit and it's main board has a Philips chip on it!)

Other minor changes included the design of the Commodore badge, bezel design, vent/speaker holes, case shape and circuit boards.
Any 1084 with an S in it's model number is a stereo unit, regardless of if the OEM was Philips or Daewoo.

As for my 1084, It's a 1084S-D2 manufactured in October of 1992 and apart from the power button not staying pressed in (Common 1084 issue), everything else is in working order. The front flap which is almost always broken on 1084s is intact and the press to open mechanism still works perfectly. The only other thing that may need adjustment is the control knobs for the picture and brightness. I also need to find a video source that I can use to check if the vertical and horizontal holds need adjustment.
Slowly mastering the art of salvaging 18650's.
Getting better with each pack but still have yet to accomplish my goal of a spark free salvage.
I'll get there someday.
 

Offline helius

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3675
  • Country: us
Re: Commodore 1084s-P1 CRT repair
« Reply #36 on: October 21, 2023, 03:18:37 am »
I know some stuff about CRT displays and the hazards associated with them in regards to high voltage that can still be present long after the monitor has been switched off and unplugged. Well in my case, the monitor has been sitting without power for over 20 years so I doubt that there's still any voltage left inside. My main concern is that the electronics have sat unpowered for so long that they may no longer work.
There's a saying that a little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

Much of the above is hearsay, outdated information, or inaccurate. Post-1960s CRTs with metal bands generally do not implode at all. If the vacuum is broken they make a farting sound and that's about it.
The truly lethal section of a monitor is the power supply circuitry which often has no separate shielding; not the flyback or anode.
Removing the anode cable is not "the first thing" you should do! In fact it is almost never necessary to do it at all, unless access to other parts (most often the cause of failures, for example the horizontal output transistor or the sync circuits) requires it.
 

Offline DTJ

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1006
  • Country: au
Re: Commodore 1084s-P1 CRT repair
« Reply #37 on: October 23, 2023, 01:52:40 pm »

Later, "prestressed" designs were used, which concentrated any implosive forces away from the screen, into the very much smaller neck area, where the amount of glass available to possibly cause damage is much less.


They were very tough tubes.

As a child of the 70s I spend many an hour at the local dump or in the bush tossing bricks at dumped TVs.

It often took many tries aiming at the front of the screen. When they went, they went very well!

Bricking the rear of the tube was a lot less exciting.



Good to see you still about vk6zgo, we spent a year or so working together around 2002.
 


Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf