EEVblog Electronics Community Forum
Products => Computers => Vintage Computing => Topic started by: Halcyon on July 25, 2017, 02:05:23 am
-
Hi Dave,
I know it's been discussed here before (I can't seem to find the thread), but I think it's probably time to re-visit the idea of creating a "Vintage Computing" section.
Old computer technology is a huge discussion point here and to lump it in with "General chat" means a lot of topics are getting lost in the noise.
Thoughts? I've added a poll for shits and giggles.
-
Yea the thing about forums like this is the problem of over-boarding (a major section of a forum is called a "board") vs. keeping the main forum view layout simple and direct.
There becomes so many areas of interest that it seems like you need to create a board for all of them. It's a tough call between over-boarding and just letting people search for the areas on interest. But because people are lazy they don't use search ...
I don't have a dog in this fight - let's see what he says.
-
Yea the thing about forums like this is the problem of over-boarding (a major section of a forum is called a "board") vs. keeping the main forum view layout simple and direct.
There becomes so many areas of interest that it seems like you need to create a board for all of them. It's a tough call between over-boarding and just letting people search for the areas on interest. But because people are lazy they don't use search ...
Sure and I'm concious of this myself. We can't just go creating boards to suit everyone, but since the topic of old computer hardware is discussed in such volume here (not to mention Dave has done several videos specifically about old computers), it probably wouldn't be a bad idea. "Thermal Imaging" for example has it's own board but with relatively few topics.
"Jobs" and "Work Wanted" could also probably be merged into one.
-
Of course I agree. We need something to compete with VOGONS. ;)
I think there would be a good enough volume of retro computing enthusiasts that would like to pop in from time to time. I would definitely hang around there.
-
Hi Dave,
I know it's been discussed here before (I can't seem to find the thread), but I think it's probably time to re-visit the idea of creating a "Vintage Computing" section.
Why? Are you getting bored of General Chat?
-
Of course I agree. We need something to compete with VOGONS. ;)
I think there would be a good enough volume of retro computing enthusiasts that would like to pop in from time to time. I would definitely hang around there.
You agree? Are you getting bored of General Chat as well?
-
Not entirely sure what your point is.
I'm not getting bored of the general chat, I just think it would be neat to have a retro computing section on the forum. I will of course still be on the general chat, but considering that there are a decent amount of people interested in legacy computing, a new section to the forum would not be unreasonable. As Halcyon said, even Dave has had a few retro teardowns on his channel (Gonna go watch the one he did on the Sharp 68k machine he did now that I think of it)
-
Why? Are you getting bored of General Chat?
A bit, yeah. But it has absolutely nothing to do with that. I'd love to see all the vintage computing stuff all in one place as it forms a significant number of posts on the forum.
Just about every page of posts in General Chat has something to do with vintage/legacy computing:
Page 1 - Help needed with OS/2
Page 2 - upgrading cpu in old pc
Page 3 - Does anyone else have memories of tracking the MIR space station?
Page 4 - Etymology of the word "computer", How to tell if old PC is a Homebrew?, is a pocket sized Altair 8800 a brilliant idea?
Page 5 - Making a retro dos/windows gaming pc need a little help
Page 6 - Covox Speech Thing clone (for lovers of vintage computer gear)
Page 7 - IBM System/360 Front Panel, Xerox Alto Restoration
Page 8 - Worst 5 Computer Keyboards
Page 10 - Remember the ZIP Drive ?
Page 11 - Take on Me by the Floppotron!
Page 12 - Any other older folks learn to program with this?
Page 13 - Installing macOS, New Pentium Pro retro build, i386DX-16
I think you get the picture. I could go on but I'll be here all night.
-
You got my vote! I love vintage gear. Would be nice to see a section dedicated to it. I used to have a nice collection of vintage computers, but most of the stuff got lost in the shuffle over the years. I'll never let anything happen to my working 1973 Zenith terminal though. :-)
Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk
-
I was actually just talking about the popularity of vintage computers/games in the workbench pictures thread. I think it would be a good idea to have a forum like that here, most forums about the topic don't really get too in depth and it would be nice to discuss it on a bare metal level with seriously knowledgeable people.
edit: I would also suggest that the forum be dedicated to both old computers and old console/arcade game systems since there's huge cross-pollination in those hobbies and servicing both is similar
-
edit: I would also suggest that the forum be dedicated to both old computers and old console/arcade game systems since there's huge cross-pollination in those hobbies and servicing both is similar
Which is why I suggested the title "computing" because it encompasses all that, plus embedded systems etc...
-
I'd like to see a 'Vintage' section, but why just computers? Why not generally vintage technology?
Electronics and computers would turn out to be the greater portion of discussion I think, even if the title didn't specify just those fields.
Also, what is 'vintage'? Anything prior to say, 1980? 1970? 1960? Anything just out of warranty? (Ha ha.)
-
Also, what is 'vintage'? Anything prior to say, 1980? 1970? 1960? Anything just out of warranty? (Ha ha.)
In the hobby of "vintage" games and computers it's anything before the mid 90's, as that technology accelerated so quickly.
edit: I think a catachall vintage forum would be a bit too broad. there is a big difference between say a 16-bit digital computer and a tube amp. Like Halcyon said a vintage "computing" section would be great, it would encompass things like old calculators and stuff like that too which also have large communities (let me tell you about my HP collection...)
-
For sure we need one. Now people are asking how can they should connect a 74HC138 on projects area, you tell them that they should use stuff from this 21 century, and they tell you that they want to build an 8 bit computer for whatever reason.
I think, you can pretty much call anything vintage, what does not run Doom.
There are definitions like that. It is a smartphone if it can run Angry Birds, you are drunk, if you need to rest your head against something when you go to the restroom...
-
The unofficial VOGONS definition is basically anything early Socket 775 and before. The definition is definitely up for debate, but that's normally where I draw the line. You can of course make period accurate systems, which is more to what the whole thing is about.
I suggest we, however, restrict the section to computing, because when you expand it to old technology, you have room for basically everything that the General Chat talks about, just if the general chat was here 20 years ago.
-
The "vintage" line changes year after year. To me "vintage computing" refers to anything pre-Windows XP in relation to software and original Pentium-based machines or older. The vast majority of my gear at home is from the 1980's however.
-
Hi Dave,
I know it's been discussed here before (I can't seem to find the thread), but I think it's probably time to re-visit the idea of creating a "Vintage Computing" section.
I don't recall this being bought up before?
I did a search for "vintage computer" and I got 5 pages of results. There are no doubt more, but finding them and moving them might be difficult.
The "Products" board is looking a bit thin... Hmm...
-
I think "Vintage Electronics" would be more appropriate. This would cover far more topics than a forum specifically dedicated to computers.
-
Ok, done, with some topics moved to seed it. Will see how it goes.
-
Ok, done, with some topics moved to seed it. Will see how it goes.
The TEA thread seems an odd choice to seed the vintage computing section
-
I think Vintage Computing is manageable, but please don't change it to Vintage Electronics. That would cause mass confusion due to all the vintage test equipment repair, restoration and just plain drooling that over that happens here.
Ed
-
Ok, done, with some topics moved to seed it. Will see how it goes.
The TEA thread seems an odd choice to seed the vintage computing section
Fixed
-
Ok, done, with some topics moved to seed it. Will see how it goes.
The TEA thread seems an odd choice to seed the vintage computing section
Think of it as penance for gluttony.
-
Vintage ? :wtf:
It's hardly been out of the box. :rant:
-
Approx 20 years plus is vintage (in case anyone is confused).
-
My "Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/tandy-1000-exhx-plus-expansion-to-8-bit-isa-riser-card-project/)" topic is prolly better suited to the Vintage Computing section too. 8)
-
Approx 20 years plus is vintage (in case anyone is confused).
Ahh, I didn't realize that you are owning the official definition. ;)
I have seen various different definitons applied, e.g. by the organizers of vintage computing festivals. I like the criteria most European vintage computer organizations seem to have gravitated towards: "Older than XX years and interesting, which typically excludes Windows PCs", or something alsong those lines.
Of course these criteria are not absolute, and Windows machines can be quite interesting, e.g. if they have a unique form factor. And you can probably find some machines/devices which are quite a bit younger than 20 years, and are nevertheless of interest to (some) vintage computing enthusiasts -- either if they were groundbreaking innovations, or quirky dead ends of the technology roadmap.
-
... with cars a common definition for vintage is pre 1930. I don't see what is wrong with that standard being applied here at least for semantic convenience.
Define "vintage computers" as pre-1930, you mean? Hmm, let me think... There might be one tiny little weakness in that suggestion, but I can't put my finger on it... :P
-
Woudnt have to do much with electronics then, if anything :D
Id say starting with 1990 and back should be considered vintage. I certanly would consider my L40SX to be vintage...
Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk
-
Why not "Projects, Designs, and Technical Stuff" since it is about a project and not a vintage computer in its unmodified state as it was once before it was vintage? In any case with cars a common definition for vintage is pre 1930. I don't see what is wrong with that standard being applied here at least for semantic convenience.
Any computer made after 1980 should be defined as a modern classic and after 1990 post-modern classic and after 2000 as old.
So can we ask Dave for three more categories to avoid any miscategorisation.
BTW 1930 - 1979 can be categorised as interesting.
Well as an active member of a real life Commodore & Amiga user group, I'd suggest most of my fellow "retro" computer enthusiasts would strongly disagree with your categorisation of our beloved 70's-90's (very early) computers as not "vintage".
-
Ok, done, with some topics moved to seed it. Will see how it goes.
Cheers Dave!
-
Well as an active member of a real life Commodore & Amiga user group, I'd suggest most of my fellow "retro" computer enthusiasts would strongly disagree with your categorisation of our beloved 70's-90's (very early) computers as not "vintage".
But you would agree the Amiga is a modern classic? :)
Anyway my post was a dig at the inevitable debate that will pop up from time to time about what's in and what's out when there is no rigid guide. Not that I think a rigid guide is needed. My point was that "classic computing" would have worked just as well.
If I have any reticence at all it is that category creep inevitably leads to increased confusion about the best category and for those so inclined to category nazis.
Well if you want to get technical, the computers most of us collect and play with from the 70's-90's (early) should be classed as "Vintage Personal Computers" as that 17 year period between 1975 and 1992 was really the dawn of Personal computing. 8)
-
If they do add this, it would be a god idea to add a trusted "moderator-at-large" for a week or so, that would volunteer to look around on the forum boards and move existing vintage computer threads to the new board so they'll be in one place. After they get done they can be removed from moderator status.
-
If they do add this, it would be a god idea to add a trusted "moderator-at-large" for a week or so, that would volunteer to look around on the forum boards and move existing vintage computer threads to the new board so they'll be in one place. After they get done they can be removed from moderator status.
Probably not a bad idea. Smells like a job for gnif ;-)
-
If they do add this, it would be a god idea to add a trusted "moderator-at-large" for a week or so, that would volunteer to look around on the forum boards and move existing vintage computer threads to the new board so they'll be in one place. After they get done they can be removed from moderator status.
And you are volunteering? Thanks mate!!
-
Well if you want to get technical, the computers most of us collect and play with from the 70's-90's (early) should be classed as "Vintage Personal Computers" as that 17 year period between 1975 and 1992 was really the dawn of Personal computing. 8)
It'll have to do since there weren't many computers made pre 1930 to fit the vintage definition the car nuts use.
But I must strongly ;) take exception to the use of the term personal computing as I find in needlessly restrictive. Vintage computing should embrace non-personal computing too. :)
In that vein I have recently been taking an interest in CSIRAC which was regarded as Australia's first computer and in some accounts the 4th computer in the world. Admittedly a rich and fertile ground upon which to mount a debate. Here are some links for the interested.
http://www.cis.unimelb.edu.au/about/csirac/ (http://www.cis.unimelb.edu.au/about/csirac/)
http://www.cis.unimelb.edu.au/about/csirac/the-last-of-the-first-csirac-ebook.pdf (http://www.cis.unimelb.edu.au/about/csirac/the-last-of-the-first-csirac-ebook.pdf)
Now vintage mainframe computers, there's a fascinating subject.
-
Now vintage mainframe computers, there's a fascinating subject.
Indeed.
Is this board going to tolerate discussion about getting emulator software working so you can run old mainframe operating systems and software? DEC PDP 10 anyone?
What about IBM 370 or VAX VMS? What about FPGA emulations?
-
Now vintage mainframe computers, there's a fascinating subject.
Indeed.
Is this board going to tolerate discussion about getting emulator software working so you can run old mainframe operating systems and software? DEC PDP 10 anyone?
What about IBM 370 or VAX VMS? What about FPGA emulations?
Hell yes! Bring it on wilfred!
-
If they do add this, it would be a god idea to add a trusted "moderator-at-large" for a week or so, that would volunteer to look around on the forum boards and move existing vintage computer threads to the new board so they'll be in one place. After they get done they can be removed from moderator status.
And you are volunteering? Thanks mate!!
Sure. I put my money where my mouth is.
Thanks mate!!
-
Let me take you on a time warp to the 80s, vintage was referred even back then as 20 plus years old.
Sorry if you didn't speak english, hadn't heard of the internet, weren't talking to people all over the world, weren't born or were told otherwise from someone who had no idea.
Two decades is a long time there has been 6 versions of Windows for consumers to use in the last 20 years. Back in the 80s people expected most things to last well over 10 years before replacing, but 20 years old, man that was vintage.
Case closed.
-
[...]
Case closed.
Attitude problem? ???
Time to go to bed?
-
[...]
Case closed.
Attitude problem? ???
Time to go to bed?
What are you trying to do, provoke me? I'm not even talking to you dude LOL.
-
Ok, done, with some topics moved to seed it. Will see how it goes.
Glad to see the new forum! :-+
Not sure what you looked for to find the seeds, but some appear to be there by mistake:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/vintage-computing/see-y'all (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/vintage-computing/see-y'all)!/
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/vintage-computing/nice-examples-of-breakout-systems-for-sbcs-that-aren't-prone-to-creating-rfi/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/vintage-computing/nice-examples-of-breakout-systems-for-sbcs-that-aren't-prone-to-creating-rfi/)
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/vintage-computing/overclocking-an-uncooled-attiny-to-44-24mhz/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/vintage-computing/overclocking-an-uncooled-attiny-to-44-24mhz/)
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/vintage-computing/programmer-for-tms2516/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/vintage-computing/programmer-for-tms2516/)
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/vintage-computing/uv-eprom-over-programming'/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/vintage-computing/uv-eprom-over-programming'/)