Author Topic: Oh hell, just bought another calculator  (Read 5035 times)

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Online tggzzzTopic starter

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Oh hell, just bought another calculator
« on: June 04, 2023, 10:24:05 am »
Ah, but what is it? [1] A few hints are in order...

I paid roughly the same price as an HP35 cost when it was introduced. Fairly rare; there were far more HP35s produced. Older than an HP35. But is bigger[2] than an HP35 and was in production for significantly longer.

I certainly wasn't going to have it posted, so I retrieved it myself from the auction house.

[1] I've already tantalised denizens of another forum, so I'd appreciate it if they didn't spoil the fun here :)

[2] Probably the biggest calculator, short of an old mainframe computer, that has ever existed or will ever exist. There are several in the attached picture.
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
Glider pilot's aphorism: "there is no substitute for span". Retort: "There is a substitute: skill+imagination. But you can buy span".
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Offline Phil_G

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Re: Oh hell, just bought another calculator
« Reply #1 on: June 05, 2023, 03:17:08 pm »
Note the Cray-1 prototype in the bottom-left corner...   :-DD
 

Offline artag

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Re: Oh hell, just bought another calculator
« Reply #2 on: June 06, 2023, 06:32:25 pm »
 I can see a bunch of mechanical calculators there that fit the description but don't know them well enough to identify. Busicom ? Addo ?

I'm curious about the tall poles dotted around the room. They look like light-poles (the coloured slice things you get on customer-operated tills and automated production machines.

If you're into mechanical calculators I do have a few. I'd like to obtain one that I haven't been able to find - an Odhner accounting machine. It's a multiple-register adding machine with a typewriter carriage and a programming bar that defines which register is affected based  on the location of the carriage. A mechanical spreadsheet.

I spotted you at an online auction the other day but I don't recall an adding machine in it. Did you get the TDR ?
 

Offline IanB

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Re: Oh hell, just bought another calculator
« Reply #3 on: June 06, 2023, 06:39:26 pm »
Some many years ago (circa 1980) I encountered some desktop calculators with nixie tube displays. I don't recall if they had any mechanical parts, or if they were entirely electronic. I think they were electronic.

I have also encountered motorized mechanical calculators. Instead of manually turning the handle N times, there was an electric motor that did it automatically.
 

Offline MK14

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Re: Oh hell, just bought another calculator
« Reply #4 on: June 06, 2023, 06:52:10 pm »
This thread is reminding me of the following, which almost opened up a giant black hole.

 

Online tggzzzTopic starter

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Re: Oh hell, just bought another calculator
« Reply #5 on: June 06, 2023, 10:10:24 pm »
Don't  think small, e.g. the mechanical calculators mentioned. Think bigger. Much bigger.

As for the Cray prototype, noted. But in that picture the computers were using the calculators. Seriously!
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
Glider pilot's aphorism: "there is no substitute for span". Retort: "There is a substitute: skill+imagination. But you can buy span".
Having fun doing more, with less
 

Offline MK14

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Re: Oh hell, just bought another calculator
« Reply #6 on: June 07, 2023, 01:11:22 am »
Don't  think small, e.g. the mechanical calculators mentioned. Think bigger. Much bigger.

140kg of desk sized, relay computer calculator?

https://www.firstversions.com/2015/06/casio-calculator.html

From about 1954 to 1959, and the picture you supplied in the opening post, seems to be 1959 ("The marble hall", Norwich union).

The following link, seems to mention some of the calculators, used for calculating the premiums, over the years:

https://avivaarchive.medium.com/working-out-the-premiums-calculating-machines-9d6ccdd9151e
« Last Edit: June 07, 2023, 01:34:34 am by MK14 »
 

Offline artag

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Re: Oh hell, just bought another calculator
« Reply #7 on: June 07, 2023, 02:13:33 am »
Don't  think small, e.g. the mechanical calculators mentioned. Think bigger. Much bigger.

As for the Cray prototype, noted. But in that picture the computers were using the calculators. Seriously!

Sure, the computers are the men and women sitting at the tables. They have some mechanical calculators available but if those aren't the ones you mean, i guess there's some other item that used the term. Don't know what that is. The tables of paperwork ?
 

Online ebastler

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Re: Oh hell, just bought another calculator
« Reply #8 on: June 07, 2023, 08:15:07 am »
Don't  think small, e.g. the mechanical calculators mentioned. Think bigger. Much bigger.

Brand starts with an "M", I guess... Are the models shown in your picture (and hence the one you bought) still purely electro-mechanical?
 

Online tggzzzTopic starter

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Re: Oh hell, just bought another calculator
« Reply #9 on: June 07, 2023, 08:39:20 am »
Don't  think small, e.g. the mechanical calculators mentioned. Think bigger. Much bigger.

Brand starts with an "M", I guess... Are the models shown in your picture (and hence the one you bought) still purely electro-mechanical?

No, and no :)
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
Glider pilot's aphorism: "there is no substitute for span". Retort: "There is a substitute: skill+imagination. But you can buy span".
Having fun doing more, with less
 

Online tggzzzTopic starter

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Re: Oh hell, just bought another calculator
« Reply #10 on: June 07, 2023, 08:44:54 am »
Don't  think small, e.g. the mechanical calculators mentioned. Think bigger. Much bigger.

140kg of desk sized, relay computer calculator?

Nope. But I do have a couple of component used in the world's oldest operating computer. Well worth seeing, if you get the chance! Since you are in the UK, it will be less difficult than for most of the denizens of this forum.

Quote
https://www.firstversions.com/2015/06/casio-calculator.html

From about 1954 to 1959, and the picture you supplied in the opening post, seems to be 1959 ("The marble hall", Norwich union).

The following link, seems to mention some of the calculators, used for calculating the premiums, over the years:

https://avivaarchive.medium.com/working-out-the-premiums-calculating-machines-9d6ccdd9151e

Yes indeed; the NU reference was indeed A Big Hint.

But which one?

Ooh, this striptease is fun :)
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
Glider pilot's aphorism: "there is no substitute for span". Retort: "There is a substitute: skill+imagination. But you can buy span".
Having fun doing more, with less
 

Online ebastler

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Re: Oh hell, just bought another calculator
« Reply #11 on: June 07, 2023, 08:58:02 am »
Yes indeed; the NU reference was indeed A Big Hint.

Yes, that's the route I took too. Which led me to https://avivaarchive.medium.com/working-out-the-premiums-calculating-machines-9d6ccdd9151e, where your picture is shown about halfway down the page, with the following commentary:

Quote
.. while here is the Marble Hall at Norwich Union’s Norwich head office complete with very messy desks featuring Monroe calculators in the mid-1960s.

Did they get that wrong, or are there further machines in the picture?
 

Online tggzzzTopic starter

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Re: Oh hell, just bought another calculator
« Reply #12 on: June 07, 2023, 09:07:44 am »
Yes indeed; the NU reference was indeed A Big Hint.

Yes, that's the route I took too. Which led me to https://avivaarchive.medium.com/working-out-the-premiums-calculating-machines-9d6ccdd9151e, where your picture is shown about halfway down the page, with the following commentary:

Quote
.. while here is the Marble Hall at Norwich Union’s Norwich head office complete with very messy desks featuring Monroe calculators in the mid-1960s.

Did they get that wrong, or are there further machines in the picture?

There are many (as in 0, 1, 2, many) other calculators in that particular picture.

Don't ignore the other Big Hint I gave :)
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
Glider pilot's aphorism: "there is no substitute for span". Retort: "There is a substitute: skill+imagination. But you can buy span".
Having fun doing more, with less
 

Online ebastler

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Re: Oh hell, just bought another calculator
« Reply #13 on: June 07, 2023, 09:31:41 am »
If we are looking for the biggest electronic desktop calculator, the Anita Mk 8 might qualify. They were supposedly used at Norwich Union too, but I can't spot any in the picture?
 

Online tggzzzTopic starter

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Re: Oh hell, just bought another calculator
« Reply #14 on: June 07, 2023, 09:44:48 am »
If we are looking for the biggest electronic desktop calculator, the Anita Mk 8 might qualify. They were supposedly used at Norwich Union too, but I can't spot any in the picture?

I didn't know about Anita Mk8 calculators. I think they have become my prime example of why I dislike skeuomorphic interfaces :)

Clearly being cryptic has a pleasing benefit: I've learned something I didn't even know I didn't know. A great example of my favourite word and concept: serendipity :)

Thanks!
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
Glider pilot's aphorism: "there is no substitute for span". Retort: "There is a substitute: skill+imagination. But you can buy span".
Having fun doing more, with less
 

Offline MK14

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Re: Oh hell, just bought another calculator
« Reply #15 on: June 07, 2023, 10:44:37 am »
The Hewlett-Packard 9100A is pretty big, as well, all 40 pounds of it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hewlett-Packard_9100A

 

Online ebastler

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Re: Oh hell, just bought another calculator
« Reply #16 on: June 07, 2023, 11:35:34 am »
The Hewlett-Packard 9100A is pretty big, as well, all 40 pounds of it.

That's cheating, there is a printer sitting on top of the calculator in the picture!  ;)
 

Offline MK14

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Re: Oh hell, just bought another calculator
« Reply #17 on: June 07, 2023, 11:54:26 am »
The Hewlett-Packard 9100A is pretty big, as well, all 40 pounds of it.

That's cheating, there is a printer sitting on top of the calculator in the picture!  ;)

Well, given all the so called hints, some of which I've put bold on.  There perhaps are way too many mentions of HP calculators, so I chose a somewhat similar vintage one, and a pretty big one.

But you are right.  Including the printer, could be a step too far.  But even without, it is still a big calculator.

Ah, but what is it? [1] A few hints are in order...

I paid roughly the same price as an HP35 cost when it was introduced. Fairly rare; there were far more HP35s produced. Older than an HP35. But is bigger[2] than an HP35 and was in production for significantly longer.

I certainly wasn't going to have it posted, so I retrieved it myself from the auction house.

[1] I've already tantalised denizens of another forum, so I'd appreciate it if they didn't spoil the fun here :)

[2] Probably the biggest calculator, short of an old mainframe computer, that has ever existed or will ever exist. There are several in the attached picture.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2023, 11:56:08 am by MK14 »
 

Online ebastler

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Re: Oh hell, just bought another calculator
« Reply #18 on: June 07, 2023, 12:04:20 pm »
Including the printer, could be a step too far.  But even without, it is still a big calculator.

Include the HP 9101A memory expansion for a really chunky total package!  :)
https://www.hpmuseum.net/display_item.php?hw=912
 

Online tggzzzTopic starter

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Re: Oh hell, just bought another calculator
« Reply #19 on: June 07, 2023, 12:09:35 pm »
The Hewlett-Packard 9100A is pretty big, as well, all 40 pounds of it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hewlett-Packard_9100A



I saw one of those for sale at a hamfest last year. Someone physically bigger than me was determined to buy it. Half of me thinks that was for the best.
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
Glider pilot's aphorism: "there is no substitute for span". Retort: "There is a substitute: skill+imagination. But you can buy span".
Having fun doing more, with less
 

Offline MK14

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Re: Oh hell, just bought another calculator
« Reply #20 on: June 07, 2023, 12:11:43 pm »
Including the printer, could be a step too far.  But even without, it is still a big calculator.

Include the HP 9101A memory expansion for a really chunky total package!  :)
https://www.hpmuseum.net/display_item.php?hw=912

That's the size of some of the early mini-computers, such as later PDP-11's.

Yes, that probably would be cheating and/or turn the name of the device into a computer, rather than a calculator, as the extra 2.5kB (very approx), is moving into computer territory.

Although, that HP 'calculator', could be called a computer, depending on ones definitions.
 

Online tggzzzTopic starter

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Re: Oh hell, just bought another calculator
« Reply #21 on: June 07, 2023, 12:12:38 pm »
But even without, it is still a big calculator.

Far too small, yet far too heavy :)

People need to look at what I haven't said :)
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
Glider pilot's aphorism: "there is no substitute for span". Retort: "There is a substitute: skill+imagination. But you can buy span".
Having fun doing more, with less
 

Offline MK14

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Re: Oh hell, just bought another calculator
« Reply #22 on: June 07, 2023, 12:14:34 pm »
The Hewlett-Packard 9100A is pretty big, as well, all 40 pounds of it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hewlett-Packard_9100A



I saw one of those for sale at a hamfest last year. Someone physically bigger than me was determined to buy it. Half of me thinks that was for the best.

Yes, probably for the best.

Although an amazing piece of technology for the time period (late 1960's), it probably would take a massive amount of work to get (and keep) it working.
 

Online tggzzzTopic starter

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Re: Oh hell, just bought another calculator
« Reply #23 on: June 07, 2023, 12:19:13 pm »
Yes, that probably would be cheating and/or turn the name of the device into a computer, rather than a calculator, as the extra 2.5kB (very approx), is moving into computer territory.

Although, that HP 'calculator', could be called a computer, depending on ones definitions.

The brass nameplate is explicit: "X calculator".

HP sold the HP9845 series as calculators, so their customers' purchase requisitions wouldn't invoke the corporate immune system along the lines that computer=>IT=>special rooms/departments.
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
Glider pilot's aphorism: "there is no substitute for span". Retort: "There is a substitute: skill+imagination. But you can buy span".
Having fun doing more, with less
 

Online ebastler

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Re: Oh hell, just bought another calculator
« Reply #24 on: June 07, 2023, 12:19:25 pm »
Yes, that probably would be cheating and/or turn the name of the device into a computer, rather than a calculator, as the extra 2.5kB (very approx), is moving into computer territory.

Although, that HP 'calculator', could be called a computer, depending on ones definitions.

HP did advertise the 9100A as a "personal computer" in 1968, supposedly one of the first documented uses of the term:
https://web.archive.org/web/20151004045031/http://archive.wired.com/wired/archive/8.12/mustread.html?pg=11
http://www.hpmuseum.net/upload_htmlFile/PrintAds/Ad1968_9100A_PowerfulComputingGenie-23.jpg

 
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