EEVblog Electronics Community Forum
Products => Computers => Vintage Computing => Topic started by: BravoV on October 16, 2019, 04:14:13 am
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I've been offered for free a NOS German made Cherry keyboard that use DB9 connector.
Is that a serial type keyboard ?
Also is there any converter/adapter so it can be used at PC say like PS/2 one or even better USB.
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This might be helpful: https://retrocomputing.stackexchange.com/questions/1132/how-can-i-connect-a-din-plug-keyboard-to-usb
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Its DB9 , not DIN5.
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It's probably some proprietary thing. The interface is going to be some form of serial but probably not RS232. If you open it up and take a look it should be trivial to reverse engineer the hardware portion.
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It's probably some proprietary thing. The interface is going to be some form of serial but probably not RS232. If you open it up and take a look it should be trivial to reverse engineer the hardware portion.
That is what I'm worrying about, as may be it needs too much effort (hack/mod etc) to be used at PC, even just converting it into PS/2, not USB.
I don't have it with me yet, as I need to pay for the s/h cost.
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Its DB9 , not DIN5.
Are you sure it isn't DE-9?
I have never seen a nine pin connector in a DB sized shell. I have seen thousands of DE-9 connectors, and heard them mistakenly called DB-9 many times. But the only DB sized connectors I have seen in use were DB-25 or DB-13W3 units.
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Its DB9 , not DIN5.
Are you sure it isn't DE-9?
I have never seen a nine pin connector in a DB sized shell. I have seen thousands of DE-9 connectors, and heard them mistakenly called DB-9 many times. But the only DB sized connectors I have seen in use were DB-25 or DB-13W3 units.
Ok, I could be wrong calling it DB9, could be DE-9.
For sure the owner mentioned its exactly like the PC's serial connector but not clear either its male or female, but not DB25, and definitely not DIN or PS/2.
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Are you sure it isn't DE-9?
I have never seen a nine pin connector in a DB sized shell. I have seen thousands of DE-9 connectors, and heard them mistakenly called DB-9 many times. But the only DB sized connectors I have seen in use were DB-25 or DB-13W3 units.
While technically true, I would say that is extremely pedantic. Everybody knows that the common 9 pin serial connectors are colloquially called "DB-9". At this point I think that about the only people who know what a DE-9 connector is are those who like to nitpick and show how smart they are, or people old enough to have worked with them in the late 60s-early 70s when D-shell connectors were new and cutting edge.
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any pics?
Quantel made extensive use of de-9/db-9 on their keyboards for two decades
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Early Sun workstations used
9w15w D type connectors for their keyboards.
They are distinctive compared to pc keyboards
http://blog.daveastels.com.s3-website-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/2014/12/27/type-3-keyboard.html (http://blog.daveastels.com.s3-website-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/2014/12/27/type-3-keyboard.html)
Edit: oops, just noticed in pics that it is actually 15w :-[
I have seen keyboards with 9w D type at The Nation Museum of Computing, not sure what computers they are for though.
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any pics?
Quantel made extensive use of de-9/db-9 on their keyboards for two decades
Just got update from the owner, its a Cherry brand keyboard OEM-ed to API (Advanced Program Inc.) that produces/manufactures TEMPEST product. :o -> http://www.advprograms.com/ (http://www.advprograms.com/)
And for unknown reason, the original USB connector has been replaced with an AMP brand heavy metal cast DB-9 connector (as below left example) but with only 4 pins , not full 9 of them, and its on its way.
Going to convert it back to ordinary USB. ::)
(https://cdn11.bigcommerce.com/s-c345c81fyc/images/stencil/1280x1280/products/140/694/rsw-360h-180cg-true__09652.1532588118.jpg?c=2)
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And for unknown reason, the original USB connector has been replaced with an AMP brand heavy metal cast DB-9 connector (as below left example) but with only 4 pins , not full 9 of them, and its on its way.
Going to convert it back to ordinary USB. ::)
That's too easy... And disappointingly non-vintage. ;)
Any idea how old that keyboard actually is?
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And for unknown reason, the original USB connector has been replaced with an AMP brand heavy metal cast DB-9 connector (as below left example) but with only 4 pins , not full 9 of them, and its on its way.
It's probably much more rugged than an ordinary USB connector. And there's no locking mechanism with ordinary USB. That may be required for some work environments.
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TEMPEST is all about shielding, the metal shell DB9 is probably better shielded than a standard USB connector.
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And for unknown reason, the original USB connector has been replaced with an AMP brand heavy metal cast DB-9 connector (as below left example) but with only 4 pins , not full 9 of them, and its on its way.
Going to convert it back to ordinary USB. ::)
That's too easy... And disappointingly non-vintage. ;)
Any idea how old that keyboard actually is?
Yeah, abit of disappointment.
Its probably aroud 15 years maybe as the owner mentioned.
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TEMPEST is all about shielding, the metal shell DB9 is probably better shielded than a standard USB connector.
The keyboard's cable was somehow (not sure) replaced with non spiral one, just straight grayish colored.
Will post the connector photo once its in my hand.
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Pic speaks thousands words ... :P
Regarding the cable, I guess its fully shielded too and installed with ferrite EMI filter.
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Cable mount USB plugs are always a PITA to assemble (though admittedly a full sized USB A plug is probably the easiest), and the result is often mechanically weak compared to a factory assembled moulded plug. Its probably easiest to swap out the cable for one with moulded USB A plug, starting with a decent quality off-the-shelf cable and cutting off its device end plug for bare wire ends to patch into the keyboard.
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Pic speaks thousands words ... :P
Regarding the cable, I guess its fully shielded too and installed with ferrite EMI filter.
So, how does the keyboard enclosure look from the inside? Any extra shielding in there?
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You'd be better off buying a ready made cable and connect the cable inside the keyboard : https://www.digikey.com/short/pn1bv8 (https://www.digikey.com/short/pn1bv8)
Depending on shipping costs, it may be actually cheaper to buy a 1-2$ mouse from a local store and take it apart to get the cable. ex: https://www.amazon.com/Verbatim-Optical-Mouse-Accessibility-Compatible/dp/B00LPC3O3M/ (https://www.amazon.com/Verbatim-Optical-Mouse-Accessibility-Compatible/dp/B00LPC3O3M/) or https://www.amazon.com/Generic-3-Button-Optical-Notebook-Desktop/dp/B006B3PADC/ (https://www.amazon.com/Generic-3-Button-Optical-Notebook-Desktop/dp/B006B3PADC/)
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Pic speaks thousands words ... :P
Regarding the cable, I guess its fully shielded too and installed with ferrite EMI filter.
So, how does the keyboard enclosure look from the inside? Any extra shielding in there?
From outside, its obvious plastic case, not metal.
Will post photos once I tear it down.
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You'd be better off buying a ready made cable and connect the cable inside the keyboard : https://www.digikey.com/short/pn1bv8 (https://www.digikey.com/short/pn1bv8)
Depending on shipping costs, it may be actually cheaper to buy a 1-2$ mouse from a local store and take it apart to get the cable. ex: https://www.amazon.com/Verbatim-Optical-Mouse-Accessibility-Compatible/dp/B00LPC3O3M/ (https://www.amazon.com/Verbatim-Optical-Mouse-Accessibility-Compatible/dp/B00LPC3O3M/) or https://www.amazon.com/Generic-3-Button-Optical-Notebook-Desktop/dp/B006B3PADC/ (https://www.amazon.com/Generic-3-Button-Optical-Notebook-Desktop/dp/B006B3PADC/)
Well, actually my plan is just salvage from old unused USB keyboard's cable, its much more easier and convenient.
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I used to use those chunky D connectors all the time in the 70s and 80s.
They feel great and are rock solid, now everything is flimsy and built down for weight and price!
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Are you sure it isn't DE-9?
I have never seen a nine pin connector in a DB sized shell. I have seen thousands of DE-9 connectors, and heard them mistakenly called DB-9 many times. But the only DB sized connectors I have seen in use were DB-25 or DB-13W3 units.
While technically true, I would say that is extremely pedantic. Everybody knows that the common 9 pin serial connectors are colloquially called "DB-9". At this point I think that about the only people who know what a DE-9 connector is are those who like to nitpick and show how smart they are, or people old enough to have worked with them in the late 60s-early 70s when D-shell connectors were new and cutting edge.
Same story with saying "RJ45" to mean 8P8C modular, I guess. The wrong name is so ingrained (and the actual Registered Jack standard is so old and disused) that it doesn't matter any more.
(Though I still get mildly annoyed when someone says "RJ45 cable"... :P )
D-Sub is an interesting choice for USB though, since it doesn't have the staggered pin pattern to ensure ground makes contact before anything else, it would make hot-plugging somewhat hit-and-miss.
Good score though, OP! Let us know how it turns out!
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I see you have already identified the connector style (a TEMPEST conversion of a PC USB keyboard).
But there was (at least) one computer that used a DE-9 connector natively, the Silicon Graphics Personal IRIS 4D/20 and /25. These were only in production for a few years and earlier and later SGIs used other connector styles, but the keyboards do exist.