Author Topic: OrCad for MSDOS  (Read 11456 times)

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Offline Black Phoenix

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Re: OrCad for MSDOS
« Reply #25 on: September 01, 2022, 02:30:47 pm »
The post was advertising backpacks, at least according to Zoli. Vince just thought it was about OrCAD, but he was mistaken with another post about it. It was a bit more sophisticated than some of the other spamming seen before. It looked like a post about test equipment with a link to what looked like a video. I did not checked it, but Zoli did.

Yes true, I remember it had a (what it looked like a YouTube Video) video of an old Oscilloscope and then some text where he/she mention something of needing a backpack.

I clicked in the link and it gone to some website with a banner of a kid holding a backpack. I didn't check the video, and I thought the link was there by mistake.

I didn't associated the things as Zoli did. Specially after Vince said it was someone that had been a member for years and was his/her first post, specially in his thread. That should had ringed some red flags in my head, or at least find it strange but I just kept scrolling down...
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: OrCad for MSDOS
« Reply #26 on: September 01, 2022, 02:41:53 pm »
I can see them pulling a topic on backpacks if someone complained about it.  Rules are pretty clear about that but from what I have seen they are pretty lenient.   Still, what kind of idiot posts about backpacks in a EE site?   :-DD  Then again, I've posted about firearms, motorcycles, dogs and cats.   :-DD   

The two versions of Protel I own do not use a dongle.  They just use that globetrotter that everyone else used during that period.   I still have these installed on my current PC running on a virtual box. 

I wonder of the DOS version of Orcad would run under DOSBOX.   Back then, I was using DeskView to run more than one task and would run Orcad under it. 

Offline Zoli

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Re: OrCad for MSDOS
« Reply #27 on: September 01, 2022, 03:06:08 pm »
I can see them pulling a topic on backpacks if someone complained about it.  Rules are pretty clear about that but from what I have seen they are pretty lenient.   Still, what kind of idiot posts about backpacks in a EE site?   :-DD  Then again, I've posted about firearms, motorcycles, dogs and cats.   :-DD   
...
It is a "small" difference about discussing about backpacks, and post a hidden link like
Code: [Select]
[url=backpackshop]backpack[/url]The first is off-topic, the second is spam; both can be reported, but I will never report the first.
 

Online pcprogrammerTopic starter

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Re: OrCad for MSDOS
« Reply #28 on: September 01, 2022, 03:19:42 pm »
I didn't associated the things as Zoli did. Specially after Vince said it was someone that had been a member for years and was his/her first post, specially in his thread. That should had ringed some red flags in my head, or at least find it strange but I just kept scrolling down...

The misunderstanding here is that Vince is talking about two different members. The one LaulauBra (or something like it) was the one with the backpack thing. Was registered today and probably also kicked out today due to the thing being spam.

The other one, HenryFeng registered two years ago and the post about OrCAD was his second post :)

Online pcprogrammerTopic starter

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Re: OrCad for MSDOS
« Reply #29 on: September 01, 2022, 03:27:37 pm »
I wonder of the DOS version of Orcad would run under DOSBOX.   Back then, I was using DeskView to run more than one task and would run Orcad under it.

Who knows, but a big problem is the lack of a parallel port on modern computers, so either the dongle needs to be emulated, or OrCAD has to be cracked.

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: OrCad for MSDOS
« Reply #30 on: September 01, 2022, 03:49:49 pm »
If I post something off topic, I am fully expecting it to be pulled and possibly get my account locked.  It's not my site.  I am thankful that I am able to use it and if things get so bad, I would just stop posting.  No problem.    I have no interest in organized religion, politics.... so the only time I have had a problem was trolling trolls.   :-DD  I've never tried to contact an admin over anything posted.   I have made use of the ignore for people who like to post a lot of off topic material.   

I wonder of the DOS version of Orcad would run under DOSBOX.   Back then, I was using DeskView to run more than one task and would run Orcad under it.

Who knows, but a big problem is the lack of a parallel port on modern computers, so either the dongle needs to be emulated, or OrCAD has to be cracked.

At least with the DOS version I have, there was no dongle.   Actually, I don't remember there being any protection.  I would have to go back and look.  I did have a PCMCIA printer port that would work but with my newer  PC even that's out.   Now I have a PCIe card that seems to be made for engineers.   You can talk to the card in DOS just like the old days but you can't map it to the old IO addresses.   I have a old DOS based programmer that I use with it.   The problem is that you have to hack the port number is all.   Newer software supported user defined IO addresses and shouldn't be a problem.   

I have a license for the Altera MaxPlus tools which required hardware key as well.  When Intel bought Altera, I had moved to the new PC which had no printer port.  I provided Intel with the original purchase order and they created a license file that did not require the hardware key. 

Online pcprogrammerTopic starter

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Re: OrCad for MSDOS
« Reply #31 on: September 01, 2022, 04:18:22 pm »
I earlier received a personal message from a member stating that he has a version IV of which he thinks it is cracked. Asked him to send a message to Vince, since he is the one who wants to play with it. Also encouraged him to post in this thread, so wait and see 8)

One day I might play with OrCAD and Xilinx XACT to make use of several old FPGA's I still have, or a sampler board I made long ago also having several of the old XC3042 chips on it.

But first I have to finish a couple of things. One is the project to keep the wife happy, and no not that one  ( :-* ), I have to finish paving the terrace with stones, but that is just one more morning I hope. The other is the reverse engineering of the FNIRSI 1013D FPGA design, which is very interesting but requires a lot of concentration and energy. After that I will see what comes up the list, which is lonnnnng :palm:

Offline jm_araujo

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Re: OrCad for MSDOS
« Reply #32 on: September 01, 2022, 04:52:10 pm »
It was me and already sent Vince a PM.

Didn't post in the thread because I'm an occasional forum lurker that only come here sporadically , and other than having a barely remembered 26yo zip file archived since my teenage years I don't think I have much to contribute ;)
 
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Offline Black Phoenix

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Re: OrCad for MSDOS
« Reply #33 on: September 01, 2022, 05:06:37 pm »
You already helped a lot. You saved time for us to have to redo the work already done 20 so years ago.

Saudações Lusitanas do outro lado do Mundo.
 
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Offline Vince

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Re: OrCad for MSDOS
« Reply #34 on: September 01, 2022, 07:30:50 pm »
Hold on, not so fast !  >:D

I got jm_araujo's S/W a second ago, will try it out.. HOWEVER, it's not the full OrCAD suite but just the schematic capture, so missing the PCB layout, autorouter at the least so... sorry, you sill need to maike a Dongle !

I give you 10 days. The winner get a pat in the back... yes I am skint !  :-DD

OK, I must say I never anticipated it would be such an adventure to revive OrCAD... might be more trouble than it's worth !  :scared:

I though it would be  20 minutes project, download it, play with it for an hour, be satisfied and move on.... I never meant to embark into a "project" !  :-DD

Especially not one I can't handle by myself by a long shot !  :palm:



« Last Edit: September 01, 2022, 07:32:42 pm by Vince »
 

Online pcprogrammerTopic starter

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Re: OrCad for MSDOS
« Reply #35 on: September 02, 2022, 04:42:26 am »
I'm not even sure if what I have here is the full suite :-DD

But at least moving here got some results. Not sure if jm_araujo would have seen the talk about it in the TEA thread.

And if my copy does not include the PCB part, it might well be that my dongle is only suited for the schematic capture part. :-//

Offline DC1MC

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Re: OrCad for MSDOS
« Reply #36 on: September 02, 2022, 06:50:31 am »
Hello everybody, after some eons the Mame repository was finally cloned and the CAT702 module is still there in the latest version. To my great amazement is a very nice and clean code and well commented, a rarity in Open Source or, actually, in most software projects. I've always wondered what's the big deal with those arcade games, why they are so difficult to reproduce in the first time, and now I know  :wtf:, the game companies, lead by Sony didn't spare any efforts or money on copy protection, those things were brutal  :scared:.

Anyway, from a technical point of view is a very interesting beast and now it explains why we've had such a hard time three decades ago, here is the description and "modus operandi" from the code module:


Code: [Select]
/*
  CAT702 ZN security chip

  A serial magic latch.

  It's a DIP20 chip with a sticker of the form XXnn, where XX is the
  company and nn a number:
    AC = Acclaim
    AT = Atlus
    CP = Capcom
    ET = Raizing
    KN = Konami
    MG = Tecmo
    TT = Taito
    TW = Atari

  There usually are 2 of them, one on the cpu board and one on the rom
  board.  The cpu board one is usually numbered 01.

  Pinout:             GND -11  10- GND
                        ? -12   9- +5V
                      +5V -13   8- Data in
                 Data out- 14   7- Clock
                      +5V -15   6- Select
                        ? -16   5- Select
                      +5V -17   4- +5V
                      +5V -18   3- +5V
                      +5V -19   2- +5V
                      +5V -20   1- ?

  The chip works with the '?' lines left unconnected.

  The communication protocol is serial, and in practice the standard
  psx controller communication protocol minus the ack.  Drive both
  select to ground to start a communication, send bits and get the
  results on the raising clock.  Put both select back to +5V when
  finished.  The bios seems to use two communication clock speeds,
  ~300KHz (standard psx) and ~2MHz.  Driving it with lower clocks
  works reasonably, at least at 1KHz.

  The data is divided in bytes but there is no signal for end-of-byte.
  In all of the following the data will be considered coming and going
  lower-bit first.

  Internally the chip has a 8-bit state, initialized at communication
  start to 0xfc.  The structure is simple:


                  +---------+         bit number        +--------+
  Clock   ------->| bit     |-----+-------------------->| bit    |---------> Data out
                  | counter |     |                     | select |
                  +---------+     v      +-------+ out  |        |
                      |        +-----+   | 8bit  |=====>|        |
  Data in ------------|------->| TF1 |<=>| state |      +--------+
                      |        +-----+   |       |
                      |                  |       |
                      | start  +-----+   |       |
                      +------->| TF2 |<=>|       |
                               +-----+   +-------+

  The chip starts by tranforming the state with TF2.  Then, for each
  input bit from 0 to 7:
    - the nth bit from the state is sent to the output
    - the state is transformed by TF1 if the input bit is 0

  TF2 is a fixed linear substitution box (* = and, + = xor):
    o = ff*s0 + fe*s1 + fc*s2 + f8*s3 + f0*s4 + e0*s5 + c0*s6 + 7f*s7

  TF1 is a chip-dependent set of 8 linear sboxes, one per bit number.
  In practice, only the sbox for bit 0 is defined for the chip, the 7
  other are derived from it.  Defining the byte transformation Shift
  as:
       Shift(i7..i0) = i6..i0, i7^i6

  and noting the sboxes as:
       Sbox(n, i7..i0) =    Xor(    c[n, bit]*i[bit])
                         0<=bit<=7
  then
       c[n, bit=0..6] = Shift(c[n-1, (bit-1)&7])
       c[n, 7]        = Shift(c[n-1, 6])^c[n, 0]
                      = Shift(c[n-1, 6])^Shift(c[n-1, 7])
*/


Now I really wish to have one to play with  ;D

Regarding the Orcad versions, there was academic edition without dongle and some strongly restricted versions with dongle, to be give to the "international partners" for low cost schematic capture and digitization of paper schematics.
I'm curios now what is actually in those archive.org archives, most likely the academic version.

Cheers,
DC1MC
 
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Offline nctnico

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Re: OrCad for MSDOS
« Reply #37 on: September 02, 2022, 07:46:21 am »
In the TEA thread OrCad for MSDOS came up and I wonder if anyone has a cracked version of it.
Which version are you after? I have the MSDOS version somewhere which fully works.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Online pcprogrammerTopic starter

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Re: OrCad for MSDOS
« Reply #38 on: September 02, 2022, 09:47:37 am »
Vince seems to be interested in the full version of 4.4 including the PCB drawing suite.

I have tried mine with the dongle and it is only schematic capture that I have installed. My guess is that the dongle will not work with the PCB part, because I did not pay for it at the time.

It is also on the box, OrCAD STD (schematic design tools).

Offline Black Phoenix

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Re: OrCad for MSDOS
« Reply #39 on: September 02, 2022, 11:09:46 am »
To be sincere I think that we are all interested in a full suite unlocked. So all the options possible for the time. But I'm talking about myself.

I'm also curious with all of this, and in learning more. Specially when some hardware locking system is in place.
 

Online pcprogrammerTopic starter

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Re: OrCad for MSDOS
« Reply #40 on: September 02, 2022, 11:37:39 am »
Well what DC1MC found seems to provide the algorithm used in the chip, so what is needed, is to figure out the key. But also if the software can differentiate between different keys.

What I mean with that is when there are indeed different dongles for the different packages (STD, PCB, ...) how does the software work with this. Did you get multiple dongles when you bought more then one part of the suite, or a single dongle with a different key for which the software has provisions to deal with this.

Don't want to part with my dongle, but can run some code to pass data through it and capture the results, if someone supplies the code. The machine I have the HDD in is based on a pentium III 866MHz.

It is indeed an interesting topic, but not one I want to invest a lot of time in, at least at the moment.

Edit: It is fun to have fiber internet. Just downloaded the mame master of 195MB and it took not even 30 seconds :-DD
« Last Edit: September 02, 2022, 11:58:55 am by pcprogrammer »
 
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Offline Vince

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Re: OrCad for MSDOS
« Reply #41 on: September 02, 2022, 04:55:14 pm »
In the TEA thread OrCad for MSDOS came up and I wonder if anyone has a cracked version of it.
Which version are you after? I have the MSDOS version somewhere which fully works.

Was me !  >:D

This thread is all because of me I am afraid to admit...

I will take any version you have for MS-DOS ! The newer the better I guess...

As long as it's complete with schematic + PCB layout, maybe the autorouter as a bonus just for fun... I would be very thankful  >:D

It's purely for the nostalgia aspect of it.... I remember briefly using it at school in 1996/97, so I thought hey let's see if I can download it somewhere and play with it a little bit to bring back old memories !   :D



 

Offline rsjsouza

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Re: OrCad for MSDOS
« Reply #42 on: September 02, 2022, 05:40:22 pm »
Circa 1990 I used OrCAD extensively in DOS (it was a 1987 version, but I don't recall the number) and it worked quite well without a dongle - I want to say it was cracked, but I can't recall. Back then the Trident TVGA 512kB was fully supported on 800x600x256 (NEC Multisync 3D) and it was quite useful - the Trident was the VW bug of the video cards.
Circa 1992 I got ahold of a newer version but had several issues due to the absence of a dongle - by then I wasn't doing much PCBs and this went down in my concern list.

By 1995 (96?) Protel was coming out in the horizon and its incredible GUI was way too overwhelmingly good to give any attention to OrCAD and its woes. Over the years I had my spats with Cadence and only more recently I resumed full time work on it - I am reliving the old interface.
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Oh, the "whys" of the datasheets... The information is there not to be an axiomatic truth, but instead each speck of data must be slowly inhaled while carefully performing a deep search inside oneself to find the true metaphysical sense...
 
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Online pcprogrammerTopic starter

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Re: OrCad for MSDOS
« Reply #43 on: September 02, 2022, 06:22:46 pm »
Back in the day that I was designing hardware, for what I recall of it, we had OrCAD for the schematic entry and used Protel for designing the PCB. This was before 1992. Why the two different bits of software I don't remember. What I do remember is that when the idea of using, at that time called, LCA's of Xilinx came up, there was a definitive use for OrCAD, because that was the way presented to design the logic schemes for processing with XACT.

But it is all a bit vague after 30 plus years. Still have the designs on the same HDD as the OrCAD versions., along with versions of Protel and XACT.

Offline rsjsouza

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Re: OrCad for MSDOS
« Reply #44 on: September 03, 2022, 12:54:13 am »
Ah, and there was a time before OrCAD that I used Autocad 2.6 extensively for my schematic diagrams - I had a reasonable library of fundamental parts and blocks that helped me quite a lot. These were the days of the green phosphorus CGA monitor.
Vbe - vídeo blog eletrônico http://videos.vbeletronico.com

Oh, the "whys" of the datasheets... The information is there not to be an axiomatic truth, but instead each speck of data must be slowly inhaled while carefully performing a deep search inside oneself to find the true metaphysical sense...
 
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Offline Black Phoenix

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Re: OrCad for MSDOS
« Reply #45 on: September 03, 2022, 02:36:56 am »
Seeing all of that other experience with EDA programs and nostalgia an the best I know is how to start it.

Last year just started for the first time working with Solidworks and was able to make some simple projects (then laser cut). But I have a project in my mind that I want to start that will need Solidworks and I will need to design a simple PCB.

Looks like I will have to learn how to use a EDA...
 
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Online pcprogrammerTopic starter

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Re: OrCad for MSDOS
« Reply #46 on: September 03, 2022, 04:16:52 am »
Yes an EDA is very helpful for doing schematics and PCB design. And when you don't want to install software for it there is EasyEDA https://easyeda.com/editor  :)

It is free and I have used it quite a bit the last couple of years.

Offline rsjsouza

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Re: OrCad for MSDOS
« Reply #47 on: September 03, 2022, 11:13:04 am »
Don't forget KiCAD as well. It already comes furnished with an extensive library of parts and footprints that reduce the learbing curve immensely.

As with any pre-existing third party library, always double check the physical dimensions and pin arrangements of parts you use before fabricating the board.
Vbe - vídeo blog eletrônico http://videos.vbeletronico.com

Oh, the "whys" of the datasheets... The information is there not to be an axiomatic truth, but instead each speck of data must be slowly inhaled while carefully performing a deep search inside oneself to find the true metaphysical sense...
 

Online PA0PBZ

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Re: OrCad for MSDOS
« Reply #48 on: September 03, 2022, 05:18:12 pm »
Well, it sort of works:



I created a VM, installed MS-DOS 6.22 on it, created FLP files for al the different disks for version 4.4 that can be found on archive.org and started installing. For some reason the 4th disk for the PCB part was missing the DISK.ID at first and I had to cancel the installation, but after creating a valid DISK.ID the install still hangs on that disk, more work needed I guess. The SCH part seems to work and is not complaining about a dongle (yet), I was able to save and load files, one of the things that makes it complain if I remember correctly. Going to tackle the PCB install next.
Keyboard error: Press F1 to continue.
 
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Offline Vince

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Re: OrCad for MSDOS
« Reply #49 on: September 03, 2022, 05:36:30 pm »
Keep at it, looking good !  ;D
 


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