Author Topic: Programmer for TMS2516  (Read 10248 times)

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Offline Eheran

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Programmer for TMS2516
« on: June 23, 2016, 07:21:03 pm »
Vpp is 25V and there are numerous reports of problems with these due to a voltagedrop in the programmer.
So there are these Willem devices in lots of variations that claim to have Vpp 25V and some even list the TMS2516. However... considering how some say that the powersupply cant handle the current... I have seem some Willem like this one claiming to have a better voltage stability.

I need a good Programmer... or at least one that will work with that chip. Ideas are welcome.
 

Online edavid

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Re: Programmer for TMS2516
« Reply #1 on: June 23, 2016, 08:04:40 pm »
You could avoid the whole problem by using 2816 EEPROMs instead.
 

Offline Eheran

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Re: Programmer for TMS2516
« Reply #2 on: June 23, 2016, 09:55:05 pm »
I have to read them first and AFAIR there were the same problems with droping Vcc  :-//
So lets say i get a Minipro TL866 - can it read them without a problem? How hard is it to replace TMS2516 with 2816 EEPROM? Do i only have to worry about the pinout?
 

Offline blacksheeplogic

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Re: Programmer for TMS2516
« Reply #3 on: June 23, 2016, 10:13:45 pm »
I need a good Programmer... or at least one that will work with that chip. Ideas are welcome.

The Conitec GALEP programmers support these but they are quite expensive programmers unless you find them used.
 

Online edavid

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Re: Programmer for TMS2516
« Reply #4 on: June 23, 2016, 10:16:22 pm »
I have to read them first and AFAIR there were the same problems with droping Vcc  :-//

That doesn't make sense, read is 5V only.

Quote
So lets say i get a Minipro TL866 - can it read them without a problem? How hard is it to replace TMS2516 with 2816 EEPROM? Do i only have to worry about the pinout?
Yes, of course a TL866 can read TMS2516s (which are more commonly known as 2716s BTW).

TMS2516 and 2816 are pin compatible for reading.

You want to get X2816s or other 5V only parts.
 

Offline blacksheeplogic

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Re: Programmer for TMS2516
« Reply #5 on: June 23, 2016, 10:36:03 pm »
TMS2516 and 2816 are pin compatible for reading.

The TMS2516 was TI's version of the Intel 2716.

Yes, of course a TL866 can read TMS2516s (which are more commonly known as 2716s BTW).

I don't know for sure as I don't own this particular programmer. You would think all of the programmers should easily handle these old chips, but not all do and those that do usually have a external supply. I would suggest asking on one of the 8-bit forums specifically about this programmer to make sure first.
 

Offline Kjelt

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Re: Programmer for TMS2516
« Reply #6 on: June 23, 2016, 10:51:36 pm »
Are you sure the 2516 is fully compatible and pinequal to the 2716?
I know that for instance the 2532 and 2732 are not pincompatible.
 

Online edavid

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Re: Programmer for TMS2516
« Reply #7 on: June 23, 2016, 11:00:08 pm »
Yes, of course a TL866 can read TMS2516s (which are more commonly known as 2716s BTW).

I don't know for sure as I don't own this particular programmer. You would think all of the programmers should easily handle these old chips, but not all do and those that do usually have a external supply. I would suggest asking on one of the 8-bit forums specifically about this programmer to make sure first.
We are only talking about reading, not programming.
Why would an external supply be required when the part only needs 5V for reading?

Are you sure the 2516 is fully compatible and pinequal to the 2716?
Yes and no.
TMS2516 = Intel and generic 2716
TMS2716 = different
« Last Edit: June 23, 2016, 11:03:50 pm by edavid »
 

Offline blacksheeplogic

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Re: Programmer for TMS2516
« Reply #8 on: June 24, 2016, 10:09:39 am »
Are you sure the 2516 is fully compatible and pinequal to the 2716?
I know that for instance the 2532 and 2732 are not pincompatible.

Yes.
 

Offline blacksheeplogic

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Re: Programmer for TMS2516
« Reply #9 on: June 24, 2016, 10:24:27 am »
Yes, of course a TL866 can read TMS2516s (which are more commonly known as 2716s BTW).

I don't know for sure as I don't own this particular programmer. You would think all of the programmers should easily handle these old chips, but not all do and those that do usually have a external supply. I would suggest asking on one of the 8-bit forums specifically about this programmer to make sure first.
We are only talking about reading, not programming.
Why would an external supply be required when the part only needs 5V for reading?

The TMS2516 was not popular and a lot of programmers don't actually support it. As far as reading vrs writing, the original question was regarding the 25V programming voltage, Secondly, I would not buy a programmer to use with a TMS2516 just because it should work. That particular chip has a reputation for being a "should work" mistake.
 

Online edavid

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Re: Programmer for TMS2516
« Reply #10 on: June 24, 2016, 02:31:02 pm »
The TMS2516 was not popular and a lot of programmers don't actually support it.
It was popular enough, it was a second source for the Intel 2716 (so it was supported by every programmer that supported the 2716).  It was the original TMS2716 that was unpopular.

Quote
As far as reading vrs writing, the original question was regarding the 25V programming voltage, Secondly, I would not buy a programmer to use with a TMS2516 just because it should work. That particular chip has a reputation for being a "should work" mistake.
Sometimes it helps to read the other posts in the thread  :-//

Quote
So lets say i get a Minipro TL866 - can it read them without a problem?
« Last Edit: June 24, 2016, 02:34:32 pm by edavid »
 

Offline Eheran

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Re: Programmer for TMS2516
« Reply #11 on: June 24, 2016, 03:35:34 pm »
So im going with a TL866 programmer and XLS2816AP-250 2kx8 EEPROM like this one, correct?
They seem to be pin-compatible with the TMS2516 except for pin 18 and 20 (CE and OE).
 

Online edavid

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Re: Programmer for TMS2516
« Reply #12 on: June 24, 2016, 06:44:19 pm »
So im going with a TL866 programmer and XLS2816AP-250 2kx8 EEPROM like this one, correct?
They seem to be pin-compatible with the TMS2516 except for pin 18 and 20 (CE and OE).

That seems fine.

Why do you think CE and OE are not compatible with the TMS2516?


 

Offline Eheran

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Re: Programmer for TMS2516
« Reply #13 on: June 25, 2016, 08:56:49 am »
Well Pin 18 CE is Chip Enable on the 2816 vs. Power Down/Program on the TMS2561.
Pin 20 OE is Output Enable vs. Chip Select?
I was asuming that is not the same, but i gues it can be the same just "in other words"  :popcorn:
 

Online edavid

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Re: Programmer for TMS2516
« Reply #14 on: June 25, 2016, 11:18:13 pm »
Well Pin 18 CE is Chip Enable on the 2816 vs. Power Down/Program on the TMS2561.
Pin 20 OE is Output Enable vs. Chip Select?
I was asuming that is not the same, but i gues it can be the same just "in other words"  :popcorn:

If you look at the pin descriptions, they are compatible for reading.  Since you won't be trying to write in circuit, there is no problem.
 

Offline Eheran

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Re: Programmer for TMS2516
« Reply #15 on: June 30, 2016, 03:45:56 pm »
I just tryed to read all 3 EPROMs. Either i failed to do it right or they are all 100% empty, passing blank checks...  :palm:
Any Ideas? Is it possible that they really lost 100% data?
Did i do something wrong?
Im using the Minipro programmer and selected MBM2764 for the MBM 2764-25 and tryed several different 2516-types on the TSM2516.
 

Online edavid

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Re: Programmer for TMS2516
« Reply #16 on: June 30, 2016, 04:07:19 pm »
Any Ideas? Is it possible that they really lost 100% data?
Not really.

Quote
Did i do something wrong?
Are you sure you inserted them correctly in the socket?
 

Offline Eheran

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Re: Programmer for TMS2516
« Reply #17 on: June 30, 2016, 04:14:41 pm »
 |O
Ouch. Never mind.  :-DD
 

Offline Kjelt

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Re: Programmer for TMS2516
« Reply #18 on: June 30, 2016, 05:41:35 pm »
This could have killed them  :o
If I knew you had no experience I would have kept my mouth.
 

Offline Eheran

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Re: Programmer for TMS2516
« Reply #19 on: June 30, 2016, 08:12:14 pm »
So how does anyone get experience...?
 

Offline Kjelt

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Re: Programmer for TMS2516
« Reply #20 on: June 30, 2016, 08:20:38 pm »
By first using some eprom that is not vital to the repair of your device, reading the eprom programmers manual and asking questions here before doing something you never done before?
 

Offline Eheran

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Re: Programmer for TMS2516
« Reply #21 on: June 30, 2016, 08:50:50 pm »
I tested with a new EEPROM first, of course. That showed up as empty, as to be expected. Now why would the device tell me anything when it cant possibly read the chip? That lead me to believe everything was alright and i went on, "reading" the EPROMs.

Anyway. The EPROMs either already lost data (i read them with 4,5-5,5V and they always verified okay) or there is some other defect in the machine. Maybe the manufacturer sends me the original Data, but i doubt it. One of them contained the different languages, so that was fairly easy to check as the words were okay. But the other two are not simply ascii. How could i translate the Hex to something readable as the original code or whatever? Or any other ideas how i could check the data?
 

Offline Kjelt

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Re: Programmer for TMS2516
« Reply #22 on: June 30, 2016, 09:08:33 pm »
No you probably can not check it. If you are lucky and the device firmware writers clever there is a checksum on the code that will be checked on power up. So you save the code, write it to an (e)prom put them inthe device and see if it still works.
 

Offline Eheran

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Re: Programmer for TMS2516
« Reply #23 on: June 30, 2016, 09:16:03 pm »
It doesnt work. Im doing all this because of it not working in the first place  ;)
But since i can see the languagedata loaded from the new EEPROM it has to be alright in terms of copying the old ROMs and accepting the new EEPROMs.
 

Online edavid

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Re: Programmer for TMS2516
« Reply #24 on: June 30, 2016, 09:52:33 pm »
This is very confusing.  What problem were you trying to solve by copying the EPROMs?
 


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