Author Topic: See Y'all!  (Read 11522 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline tooki

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4376
  • Country: ch
Re: See Y'all!
« Reply #25 on: August 29, 2016, 01:07:52 am »
You'll need thicker skin if you plan on using the internet, buttercup.
Not defending the idiot OP, but this forum does have a ruder overall attitude than many other forums I've used. It's not the worst (by far), but for sure "friendly" is not the first adjective that comes to mind. Helpful, yes; warm and cuddly, no.of

(Disclaimer: years ago, I helped run a computer forum with 60K registered users. We kept it friendlier than here.)
 

Offline amyk

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 6592
Re: See Y'all!
« Reply #26 on: August 29, 2016, 01:27:39 am »
Now that I've had a chance to see the original video I am curious about the general issue of chips like the EF52AXW shown that apparently have no datasheet. It isn't the first I've seen obviously and it pops up as an issue in similar posts here from time to time.

Are these produced only for some industrial market or only with Chinese language datasheets? If so why not just have Chinese printing on the chip.

With specific regard to the video (which I just skimmed) it seemed that the chip was a much larger package than necessary since only a handful of pins seemed to be used. I'm going to assume the device actually works and did more than just blink the LED.
This one was just not marked with the full part number (MN101EF52AXW) presumably because of space limitations. Then again, Hitachi, Matsushita/Panasonic, NEC, Renesas and the other Japanese MCU manufacturers are not known for having great part marking documentation (in English at least.)

Datasheet is here: http://www.semicon.panasonic.co.jp/ds4/MN101E51__E.pdf
 

Offline MK14

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2152
  • Country: gb
Re: See Y'all!
« Reply #27 on: August 29, 2016, 01:50:07 am »
You'll need thicker skin if you plan on using the internet, buttercup.
Not defending the idiot OP, but this forum does have a ruder overall attitude than many other forums I've used. It's not the worst (by far), but for sure "friendly" is not the first adjective that comes to mind. Helpful, yes; warm and cuddly, no.of

(Disclaimer: years ago, I helped run a computer forum with 60K registered users. We kept it friendlier than here.)

I think the emoticons that are added since the first eighteen give a good indication of the style of debate you should expect to find here. Since they were selected for a purpose it is reasonable to assume they are expected to be used. It is not like anyone has a right to claim they didn't know, they're right there in your face all the time.

Rather than the subtle inanimate first ones that are used to clarify subtle emphasis of the tone of a post the gaudy later ones generally serve to provide pictographic emphasis on the posters opinion of others.

 :horse: :popcorn: :rant: :clap:
 :blah: :blah: :-- :-- :-+ :-- :-- :-+ :=\ :=\ :box:
 :bullshit: :bullshit: :scared: :scared: :phew: :phew: :palm:
 :palm: :palm:
 :-BROKE :-BROKE :-BROKE :-- :-/O :-DMM
 :-/O :-/O :-/O

Just making sure you won't get any sleep later! (Joke).
 
The following users thanked this post: Kilrah

Offline Alex Eisenhut

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2120
  • Country: ca
  • If you can buy it for 4$ on eBay, why design it?
Re: See Y'all!
« Reply #28 on: August 29, 2016, 02:16:09 am »
You'll need thicker skin if you plan on using the internet, buttercup.
Not defending the idiot OP, but this forum does have a ruder overall attitude than many other forums I've used. It's not the worst (by far), but for sure "friendly" is not the first adjective that comes to mind. Helpful, yes; warm and cuddly, no.of

(Disclaimer: years ago, I helped run a computer forum with 60K registered users. We kept it friendlier than here.)

Vintage computer forums are also quite clannish and generate a lot of animosity. It's quite hilarious to me, it's like high-school recess never ended.
 
The following users thanked this post: tooki

Offline IanB

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 9613
  • Country: us
Re: See Y'all!
« Reply #29 on: August 29, 2016, 02:32:12 am »
Not defending the idiot OP, but this forum does have a ruder overall attitude than many other forums I've used. It's not the worst (by far), but for sure "friendly" is not the first adjective that comes to mind. Helpful, yes; warm and cuddly, no.of

Unfortunately, to make a forum "friendly" IMHO requires much heavier moderation than this one has. It requires posts being edited or deleted by moderators and users being banned for infractions of the rules.

The way I see it, "light" moderation leads to a forum for grown ups, not children. There will be a certain amount of stuff which is blunt, if not rude, and you need to have a thick skin.

Personally, I would rather inhabit the adult world and not be forced to do the equivalent of watching children's television in case I see something that hurts my delicate sensibilities.
I'm not an EE--what am I doing here?
 
The following users thanked this post: apelly, sarahMCML, Kilrah, Cubdriver, 3db

Offline amyk

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 6592
Re: See Y'all!
« Reply #30 on: August 29, 2016, 02:45:07 am »

This one was just not marked with the full part number (MN101EF52AXW) presumably because of space limitations. Then again, Hitachi, Matsushita/Panasonic, NEC, Renesas and the other Japanese MCU manufacturers are not known for having great part marking documentation (in English at least.)

Datasheet is here: http://www.semicon.panasonic.co.jp/ds4/MN101E51__E.pdf
Nice work. How did you know the correct full part number? An internet search didn't link the two as far as I could find. Searching on the full name didn't find anything except an even briefer 3 page doc and a Panasonic part selection book.  Where is the full doco that would be needed to use the chip? Only released under an NDA I suppose.
Try searching MN101EF52A. The "XW" maybe a packaging suffix, as evidenced by this other MCU from the same family: http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Panasonic/MN101EFA6AXW/?qs=k8ubvZJoN9DIQmxxsVDb4w%3D%3D

I started from searching variants of the part number and a possible guess at what it could be, and "EF52A MCU" eventually lead to Panasonic from here. Along the way, some others in China also pondered what it was. I do RE work so this wasn't a hard one to find; I've had much worse.

The full docs are available on the Panasonic site, you do need to register (free) though:
http://www.semicon.panasonic.co.jp/en/support/manuals/manual_micom_mn101e_detail_8885.html

I haven't looked around on their site too much but I believe you can also download the development tools after registration.
 

Offline EEVblog

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 30286
  • Country: au
    • EEVblog
Re: See Y'all!
« Reply #31 on: August 29, 2016, 04:47:46 am »
Not defending the idiot OP, but this forum does have a ruder overall attitude than many other forums I've used. It's not the worst (by far), but for sure "friendly" is not the first adjective that comes to mind. Helpful, yes; warm and cuddly, no.of
Unfortunately, to make a forum "friendly" IMHO requires much heavier moderation than this one has. It requires posts being edited or deleted by moderators and users being banned for infractions of the rules.
The way I see it, "light" moderation leads to a forum for grown ups, not children. There will be a certain amount of stuff which is blunt, if not rude, and you need to have a thick skin.

Correct.

Quote
Personally, I would rather inhabit the adult world and not be forced to do the equivalent of watching children's television in case I see something that hurts my delicate sensibilities.

The later will never happen under my watch.
 
The following users thanked this post: apelly, Brumby, CJay, Cubdriver, JPortici

Offline Srbel

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 359
  • Country: cs
  • Electronics engineer
Re: See Y'all!
« Reply #32 on: August 29, 2016, 10:20:01 am »
And you just continue to insult him...
 

Offline wraper

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 10625
  • Country: lv
Re: See Y'all!
« Reply #33 on: August 29, 2016, 10:27:08 am »
And you just continue to insult him...
I don't have a good feeling about this. But Starting this tread was like asking to be insulted. As I remember a few of similar treads in the past, this is default outcome.
 

Offline Kilrah

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 1807
  • Country: ch
Re: See Y'all!
« Reply #34 on: August 29, 2016, 10:50:02 am »
OP asked for advice but was too important to listen to it, strike one. When confronted about it he played the "but I'm a beginner, don't attack me!" card which of course contradicts the former, strike 2. Then he felt the need to post about how this forum's loss of his important self should be a big deal and how it's all our fault - really?  :palm:

People like we have here and in most of the technical world are very friendly and open initially (like they were at the beginning with him!) as long as you are too, but they're also rational more than emotional so if you're not following the advice you've asked for and that they took the time to give you, don't do any effort of your own to help yourself and/or have that "superior" attitude you will be grilled for sure.

Take it as a learning opportunity, people who are here and answer your questions can do so because they were open to learn and have made their own extensive research efforts for years, so you're expected to do so as well, and will need if you really want to do anything in the field.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2016, 10:55:04 am by Kilrah »
 
The following users thanked this post: MK14

Offline bitslice

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Banned!
  • Posts: 493
  • Country: gb
Re: See Y'all!
« Reply #35 on: August 29, 2016, 11:33:37 am »
It says - "Do not deride them for anything" [wording from FAQ]

really? what if they are being a dick?
like I'm still waiting for the OP to actually thank amyk...

Everyone is a beginner at something, what if I asked a dumb question about FPGA's but was petulant about a response because I'm a special snowflake?
I reckon the word "anything" is too forgiving of an entitled attitude, on a forum where people being paid 6 figure sums are bothering to answer.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2016, 12:05:58 pm by bitslice »
 
The following users thanked this post: Kilrah

Offline Kilrah

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 1807
  • Country: ch
Re: See Y'all!
« Reply #36 on: August 29, 2016, 11:41:47 am »
Exactly. I've never seen anyone shout at a newbie because he didn't know something but someone with an attitude will be put back in place, whether he's a noob or not, and I don't see anything wrong with that. Again while it might hurt it's probably the best that could happen to them by hopefully making them realize it.
 

Offline Stuartambient

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 148
  • Country: us
Re: See Y'all!
« Reply #37 on: August 29, 2016, 11:45:22 am »
I joined this forum in mid June of this year.  I started 14 threads, in the short time, which were all questions. Not in any of those did I get a rude or snarky answer.  I've also watched (and watching) a few threads here and haven't seen any rude responses.  Also read the OP's original thread and didn't notice anything of a particular rude nature in the responses.  This whole bruhaha is nothing and warrants a 'SMH'.
 

Offline bitslice

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Banned!
  • Posts: 493
  • Country: gb
Re: See Y'all!
« Reply #38 on: August 29, 2016, 12:03:48 pm »
Don't make it look like those are my words. I was just quoting the sticky in the Beginners section.

yes it could be seen like that, apologies, have edited my post
 

Offline Brumby

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 9483
  • Country: au
Re: See Y'all!
« Reply #39 on: August 29, 2016, 12:10:36 pm »
I will forgive anyone for not knowing a basic piece of information that I've know since I was 10.  I would hope that other members here would offer me the same courtesy.

However, I will not easily suffer anyone who presents themselves as 'entitled' or expect to be patted on the head for being a smart-arse ... or like those wannabes on those talent show auditions who spit the dummy when they are told they can't sing, despite what Aunty Flo has been saying since they were in nappies.
... because I'm a special snowflake?
Yes.  Like that.



Lack of knowledge can be forgiven.  A childish attitude is quite something else.
 
The following users thanked this post: Kilrah

Offline tec5c

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 422
  • Country: au
Re: See Y'all!
« Reply #40 on: August 29, 2016, 01:08:09 pm »
Perhaps I am being ignorant here, though I don't even see the "attack" on the OP (I am referring to his original thread, not this one) that made him declare that everyone here is rude... If it is clear to others then I must be a part of the problem!   :popcorn:

 
The following users thanked this post: BillyD

Offline 3db

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 331
  • Country: gb
Re: See Y'all!
« Reply #41 on: August 29, 2016, 01:29:39 pm »
on a forum where people being paid 6 figure sums are bothering to answer.
The OP may have been unaware of this vital fact.
If it's a beginner then they should be treated with kid gloves IMHO.
There's is nothing forcing anyone here to respond to any posting regardless of their experience or knowledge.
I didn't read the original post nor can I be bothered doing so.
Just my tuppence worth to the thread.   :D
 
The following users thanked this post: tooki

Offline Delta

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1225
  • Country: gb
Re: See Y'all!
« Reply #42 on: August 29, 2016, 01:51:46 pm »
I can't see Generation Snowflake producing many engineers...
 
The following users thanked this post: Kilrah

Offline Stuartambient

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 148
  • Country: us
Re: See Y'all!
« Reply #43 on: August 29, 2016, 02:17:48 pm »
I can't see Generation Snowflake producing many engineers...

Might be a good thing, keeping those who can and do the work in demand.  I know the local university's engineering programs are still well populated but also demanding both for entrance and graduation.  Could be Darwin at work for lack of a better analogy.
 

Offline tooki

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4376
  • Country: ch
Re: See Y'all!
« Reply #44 on: August 29, 2016, 03:32:03 pm »
I think part of the problem on forums for technical fields is that many engineering type folks simply do not realize the line between blunt and rude. What they perceive as a utilitarian response is actually decidedly rude by the standards of society at large.
 

Offline Kilrah

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 1807
  • Country: ch
Re: See Y'all!
« Reply #45 on: August 29, 2016, 05:37:43 pm »
There is no "line", just different ways of thinking. You can just as well consider "society at large" is way too easily offended (which the "special snowflake" articles refer to).
 

Offline Zero999

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 13313
  • Country: gb
  • 0999
Re: See Y'all!
« Reply #46 on: August 29, 2016, 06:08:25 pm »
Society varies across the world. What is rude in one culture is not in another, which should be taken into account on an Internet forum, where people from all around the world read and post.
 
The following users thanked this post: tooki, 3db


Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf