Author Topic: See Y'all!  (Read 11872 times)

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Offline KentuckyOutback

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See Y'all!
« on: August 28, 2016, 04:16:22 am »
Well, I've been on some rude forums, but this one takes the cake!
1 post, and I'm thoroughly thrown under the bus, and run over several times...
So, post #2 is to say I will NEVER use this forum again!
I could understand some making fun of me for posting in the wrong section.
BUT... When I post a relative question on the BEGINNER section, I expected to at least be welcomed, before being made fun of.
No more posts! And as for the EEVblog on YouTube, I'll be un-following it as well.
All I wanted was a little help, not be made to look like a fool...
 
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Offline PotatoBox

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Re: See Y'all!
« Reply #1 on: August 28, 2016, 04:31:45 am »
Thrown under the bus? What are you talking about? The only thread you posted, the members of this site genuinely tried to help you.
 

Offline blueskull

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Re: See Y'all!
« Reply #2 on: August 28, 2016, 05:18:01 am »
You really can not blame him. Wrapper said the device is not a scam or "being debunked", and he's correct.
Not because you are a beginner can you "debunk" things that are perfectly fine and after all says "oops, I'm a just beginner".
 

Offline Mechatrommer

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Re: See Y'all!
« Reply #3 on: August 28, 2016, 06:25:05 am »
No more posts! And as for the EEVblog on YouTube, I'll be un-following it as well.
typical behaviour. the "followers" make mistake, the "master" (or the religion) got blamed. are you going to leave ee as well and find another career just because ee is filled with some bunch of fools? or maybe the fool is the "at the another side"?
It's extremely difficult to start life.. one features of nature.. physical laws are mathematical theory of great beauty... You may wonder Why? our knowledge shows that nature is so constructed. We simply have to accept it. One could describe the situation by saying that... (Paul Dirac)
 

Offline eKretz

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Re: See Y'all!
« Reply #4 on: August 28, 2016, 07:48:14 am »
How's that go again? "Don't let the door hit ya' where the good Lord split ya'!"  :)

 
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Offline janoc

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Re: See Y'all!
« Reply #5 on: August 28, 2016, 09:46:10 am »
Another kid with an overblown ego and sense of self-entitlement? Good riddance, IMO ...
 
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Offline Delta

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Re: See Y'all!
« Reply #6 on: August 28, 2016, 10:11:26 am »
Well I for one hope that you will reconsider, and do us the hounour of staying.  Your contributions will be sorely missed, Sir.  You are a true intellectual heavyweight, an elder statesman of electronics, a gentleman and a scholar.

You must stay and fight on, there are many shills on here, paid for by Big-Printer-Cartridge-Resetter (they will do anything to protect the evil multi-billion dollar industry your brave and highly adept investigatory videos strive to debunk) - you must continue your brave work, and for that, I salute you.  :-+
« Last Edit: August 28, 2016, 01:39:38 pm by Delta »
 

Online med6753

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Re: See Y'all!
« Reply #7 on: August 28, 2016, 11:05:53 am »
Butthurt, aisle 5.  :palm: 
An old gray beard with an attitude.
 
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Offline Refrigerator

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Re: See Y'all!
« Reply #8 on: August 28, 2016, 01:06:26 pm »
and this is how SJWs are born  :popcorn:
Just started a blog at http://brimmingideas.blogspot.com/ . Not much in it as of now but more is sure to come :)
 

Offline Aodhan145

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Re: See Y'all!
« Reply #9 on: August 28, 2016, 01:08:31 pm »
I completely get where you are coming from. I hate half of the responses on these forums but they are one of the most valuable resources for solving problems. I would stick through it and ignore any responses you don't like.
 
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Offline Brumby

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Re: See Y'all!
« Reply #10 on: August 28, 2016, 01:57:50 pm »
This place rude?

Harden up.

If you present something that's been poorly researched and found to be wrong - you're going to be told.  Some may be more blunt than others - even critical - but no different than reactions you would get from people face-to-face.

If you want to spit the dummy, then you are free to do so - but it speaks volumes on your attitude ... and not favourably.


However, if you want to regather your thoughts and deal with this in a more mature way, you are welcome to try.
 
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Offline Alex Eisenhut

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Re: See Y'all!
« Reply #11 on: August 28, 2016, 02:07:24 pm »
You'll need thicker skin if you plan on using the internet, buttercup.
*Except AC/DC adapters on eBay. Avoid them all!
 
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Offline amyk

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Re: See Y'all!
« Reply #12 on: August 28, 2016, 02:30:05 pm »
You ask to identify an IC, I pretty much find an exact match, and yet apparently you've already made up your mind about what it is.  What did you expect? :wtf:  :-- :palm:
 
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Offline German_EE

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Re: See Y'all!
« Reply #13 on: August 28, 2016, 04:46:58 pm »
As said by Alex, a reasonably thick skin is required when using an online forum.
Should you find yourself in a chronically leaking boat, energy devoted to changing vessels is likely to be more productive than energy devoted to patching leaks.

Warren Buffett
 

Offline Kilrah

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Re: See Y'all!
« Reply #14 on: August 28, 2016, 05:02:31 pm »
Butthurt, aisle 5.  :palm: 
Woot, added to my collection, thanks! The one I had was much smaller :P
 

Offline Alex Eisenhut

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Re: See Y'all!
« Reply #15 on: August 28, 2016, 05:15:41 pm »
Now I'm upset I didn't watch the video, anyone got a link?
*Except AC/DC adapters on eBay. Avoid them all!
 

Offline MasterTech

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Re: See Y'all!
« Reply #16 on: August 28, 2016, 05:38:21 pm »
Now I'm upset I didn't watch the video, anyone got a link?

 

Online MK14

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Re: See Y'all!
« Reply #17 on: August 28, 2016, 09:58:12 pm »
Well, I've been on some rude forums, but this one takes the cake!
1 post, and I'm thoroughly thrown under the bus, and run over several times...
So, post #2 is to say I will NEVER use this forum again!
I could understand some making fun of me for posting in the wrong section.
BUT... When I post a relative question on the BEGINNER section, I expected to at least be welcomed, before being made fun of.
No more posts! And as for the EEVblog on YouTube, I'll be un-following it as well.
All I wanted was a little help, not be made to look like a fool...

I'm sorry if your one and only post on these forums, and a single reply to it, were enough for you to leave this forum and unsubscribe to Dave's youtube channel, permanently.

I presume you like the following picture, since you posted it elsewhere, I believe.


 
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Offline bitslice

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Re: See Y'all!
« Reply #18 on: August 28, 2016, 10:17:21 pm »
Well I did watch your video and I did have a look around at what I thought it might be, but honestly I wasn't sure other than it was obviously a microcontroller.
But your comment that it was possibly a random number generator put me off replying, because whatever I said next wasn't really going to help you, given your current level of knowledge.

Besides, trying to help new people on this forum has taught me that some people are a bit mental, they take it the wrong way and then you get shit on. FML, not playing any more.

On the plus side, you did get an answer to your question :-+
internet cookies go to AmyK
« Last Edit: August 28, 2016, 10:21:21 pm by bitslice »
 
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Offline imidis

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Re: See Y'all!
« Reply #19 on: August 28, 2016, 10:53:35 pm »
In text communication it is always handy to cut slack, text does not convey tone, so it's quite easy to take something with good intentions and interpret it as some sort of attack. Granted there may be some, but generally I do believe people like to be helpful. There is a wealth of knowledgeable and helpful folks around.
Gone for good
 

Offline Alex Eisenhut

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Re: See Y'all!
« Reply #20 on: August 28, 2016, 10:58:49 pm »
Yikes, the music.  :'(
*Except AC/DC adapters on eBay. Avoid them all!
 

Offline tec5c

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Re: See Y'all!
« Reply #21 on: August 28, 2016, 11:57:54 pm »
"For the rest of you who want to take a jab at me, it doesn't matter, knock yourselves out!  :box:" - KentuckyOutback 28/08/2016 @ 06:42:51 AM

 :-//
« Last Edit: August 28, 2016, 11:59:41 pm by tec5c »
 
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Online MK14

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Re: See Y'all!
« Reply #22 on: August 29, 2016, 12:15:21 am »
Now that I've had a chance to see the original video I am curious about the general issue of chips like the EF52AXW shown that apparently have no datasheet. It isn't the first I've seen obviously and it pops up as an issue in similar posts here from time to time.

Are these produced only for some industrial market or only with Chinese language datasheets? If so why not just have Chinese printing on the chip.

With specific regard to the video (which I just skimmed) it seemed that the chip was a much larger package than necessary since only a handful of pins seemed to be used. I'm going to assume the device actually works and did more than just blink the LED.

I suspect that it is done partly/fully on purpose, to minimize the risk, of other suppliers, copying the device (reading its software), and selling it themselves.

E.g. If you use Microchips, PIC MCU, programming service. You can request that they put your own, custom label on it. I'm NOT sure, if they still include the usual PIC chip markings, in that case. But even if they do, other manufacturers may allow that information to be missed off, on purpose.

I don't think it is reasonable to go on a forum. Making your first ever post, getting a reply. Then solely on the basis of that reply, claiming that the entire forum, with what, 100, 1,000 or 10,000 or ?, other users, is completely terrible, therefore they are immediately leaving it.

That does not sound reasonable at all.

EDIT:
I can't even see much/anything rude or bad, about the post, he seems to be complaining about, either.
On a technical forum, such as this. It is quite normal for us to disagree about technical matters. It should be fine to have different opinions, and then discuss them further.
Whereas the OP, seems to be throwing his toys out of the pram, and making a scene, for no good reason at all.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2016, 12:24:35 am by MK14 »
 

Online Ian.M

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Re: See Y'all!
« Reply #23 on: August 29, 2016, 12:33:12 am »
You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.  :horse:
 
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Offline blueskull

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Re: See Y'all!
« Reply #24 on: August 29, 2016, 12:56:13 am »
Are these produced only for some industrial market or only with Chinese language datasheets? If so why not just have Chinese printing on the chip.

Many Chinese chip makers strive on extremely thin margin, so they do not want their competitors to know anything about their design, not even block diagram, to prevent their competitors from calculating the raw die cost. Also, it prevents IP holders from suing them from abusing IP since if the block diagram is not publicly available, it is hard to collect evidence that a certain patent or SIP is used in a chip.
 

Offline tooki

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Re: See Y'all!
« Reply #25 on: August 29, 2016, 01:07:52 am »
You'll need thicker skin if you plan on using the internet, buttercup.
Not defending the idiot OP, but this forum does have a ruder overall attitude than many other forums I've used. It's not the worst (by far), but for sure "friendly" is not the first adjective that comes to mind. Helpful, yes; warm and cuddly, no.of

(Disclaimer: years ago, I helped run a computer forum with 60K registered users. We kept it friendlier than here.)
 

Offline amyk

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Re: See Y'all!
« Reply #26 on: August 29, 2016, 01:27:39 am »
Now that I've had a chance to see the original video I am curious about the general issue of chips like the EF52AXW shown that apparently have no datasheet. It isn't the first I've seen obviously and it pops up as an issue in similar posts here from time to time.

Are these produced only for some industrial market or only with Chinese language datasheets? If so why not just have Chinese printing on the chip.

With specific regard to the video (which I just skimmed) it seemed that the chip was a much larger package than necessary since only a handful of pins seemed to be used. I'm going to assume the device actually works and did more than just blink the LED.
This one was just not marked with the full part number (MN101EF52AXW) presumably because of space limitations. Then again, Hitachi, Matsushita/Panasonic, NEC, Renesas and the other Japanese MCU manufacturers are not known for having great part marking documentation (in English at least.)

Datasheet is here: http://www.semicon.panasonic.co.jp/ds4/MN101E51__E.pdf
 

Online MK14

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Re: See Y'all!
« Reply #27 on: August 29, 2016, 01:50:07 am »
You'll need thicker skin if you plan on using the internet, buttercup.
Not defending the idiot OP, but this forum does have a ruder overall attitude than many other forums I've used. It's not the worst (by far), but for sure "friendly" is not the first adjective that comes to mind. Helpful, yes; warm and cuddly, no.of

(Disclaimer: years ago, I helped run a computer forum with 60K registered users. We kept it friendlier than here.)

I think the emoticons that are added since the first eighteen give a good indication of the style of debate you should expect to find here. Since they were selected for a purpose it is reasonable to assume they are expected to be used. It is not like anyone has a right to claim they didn't know, they're right there in your face all the time.

Rather than the subtle inanimate first ones that are used to clarify subtle emphasis of the tone of a post the gaudy later ones generally serve to provide pictographic emphasis on the posters opinion of others.

 :horse: :popcorn: :rant: :clap:
 :blah: :blah: :-- :-- :-+ :-- :-- :-+ :=\ :=\ :box:
 :bullshit: :bullshit: :scared: :scared: :phew: :phew: :palm:
 :palm: :palm:
 :-BROKE :-BROKE :-BROKE :-- :-/O :-DMM
 :-/O :-/O :-/O

Just making sure you won't get any sleep later! (Joke).
 
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Offline Alex Eisenhut

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Re: See Y'all!
« Reply #28 on: August 29, 2016, 02:16:09 am »
You'll need thicker skin if you plan on using the internet, buttercup.
Not defending the idiot OP, but this forum does have a ruder overall attitude than many other forums I've used. It's not the worst (by far), but for sure "friendly" is not the first adjective that comes to mind. Helpful, yes; warm and cuddly, no.of

(Disclaimer: years ago, I helped run a computer forum with 60K registered users. We kept it friendlier than here.)

Vintage computer forums are also quite clannish and generate a lot of animosity. It's quite hilarious to me, it's like high-school recess never ended.
*Except AC/DC adapters on eBay. Avoid them all!
 
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Online IanB

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Re: See Y'all!
« Reply #29 on: August 29, 2016, 02:32:12 am »
Not defending the idiot OP, but this forum does have a ruder overall attitude than many other forums I've used. It's not the worst (by far), but for sure "friendly" is not the first adjective that comes to mind. Helpful, yes; warm and cuddly, no.of

Unfortunately, to make a forum "friendly" IMHO requires much heavier moderation than this one has. It requires posts being edited or deleted by moderators and users being banned for infractions of the rules.

The way I see it, "light" moderation leads to a forum for grown ups, not children. There will be a certain amount of stuff which is blunt, if not rude, and you need to have a thick skin.

Personally, I would rather inhabit the adult world and not be forced to do the equivalent of watching children's television in case I see something that hurts my delicate sensibilities.
I'm not an EE--what am I doing here?
 
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Offline amyk

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Re: See Y'all!
« Reply #30 on: August 29, 2016, 02:45:07 am »

This one was just not marked with the full part number (MN101EF52AXW) presumably because of space limitations. Then again, Hitachi, Matsushita/Panasonic, NEC, Renesas and the other Japanese MCU manufacturers are not known for having great part marking documentation (in English at least.)

Datasheet is here: http://www.semicon.panasonic.co.jp/ds4/MN101E51__E.pdf
Nice work. How did you know the correct full part number? An internet search didn't link the two as far as I could find. Searching on the full name didn't find anything except an even briefer 3 page doc and a Panasonic part selection book.  Where is the full doco that would be needed to use the chip? Only released under an NDA I suppose.
Try searching MN101EF52A. The "XW" maybe a packaging suffix, as evidenced by this other MCU from the same family: http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Panasonic/MN101EFA6AXW/?qs=k8ubvZJoN9DIQmxxsVDb4w%3D%3D

I started from searching variants of the part number and a possible guess at what it could be, and "EF52A MCU" eventually lead to Panasonic from here. Along the way, some others in China also pondered what it was. I do RE work so this wasn't a hard one to find; I've had much worse.

The full docs are available on the Panasonic site, you do need to register (free) though:
http://www.semicon.panasonic.co.jp/en/support/manuals/manual_micom_mn101e_detail_8885.html

I haven't looked around on their site too much but I believe you can also download the development tools after registration.
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: See Y'all!
« Reply #31 on: August 29, 2016, 04:47:46 am »
Not defending the idiot OP, but this forum does have a ruder overall attitude than many other forums I've used. It's not the worst (by far), but for sure "friendly" is not the first adjective that comes to mind. Helpful, yes; warm and cuddly, no.of
Unfortunately, to make a forum "friendly" IMHO requires much heavier moderation than this one has. It requires posts being edited or deleted by moderators and users being banned for infractions of the rules.
The way I see it, "light" moderation leads to a forum for grown ups, not children. There will be a certain amount of stuff which is blunt, if not rude, and you need to have a thick skin.

Correct.

Quote
Personally, I would rather inhabit the adult world and not be forced to do the equivalent of watching children's television in case I see something that hurts my delicate sensibilities.

The later will never happen under my watch.
 
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Offline Srbel

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Re: See Y'all!
« Reply #32 on: August 29, 2016, 10:20:01 am »
And you just continue to insult him...
 

Online wraper

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Re: See Y'all!
« Reply #33 on: August 29, 2016, 10:27:08 am »
And you just continue to insult him...
I don't have a good feeling about this. But Starting this tread was like asking to be insulted. As I remember a few of similar treads in the past, this is default outcome.
 

Offline Kilrah

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Re: See Y'all!
« Reply #34 on: August 29, 2016, 10:50:02 am »
OP asked for advice but was too important to listen to it, strike one. When confronted about it he played the "but I'm a beginner, don't attack me!" card which of course contradicts the former, strike 2. Then he felt the need to post about how this forum's loss of his important self should be a big deal and how it's all our fault - really?  :palm:

People like we have here and in most of the technical world are very friendly and open initially (like they were at the beginning with him!) as long as you are too, but they're also rational more than emotional so if you're not following the advice you've asked for and that they took the time to give you, don't do any effort of your own to help yourself and/or have that "superior" attitude you will be grilled for sure.

Take it as a learning opportunity, people who are here and answer your questions can do so because they were open to learn and have made their own extensive research efforts for years, so you're expected to do so as well, and will need if you really want to do anything in the field.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2016, 10:55:04 am by Kilrah »
 
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Offline bitslice

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Re: See Y'all!
« Reply #35 on: August 29, 2016, 11:33:37 am »
It says - "Do not deride them for anything" [wording from FAQ]

really? what if they are being a dick?
like I'm still waiting for the OP to actually thank amyk...

Everyone is a beginner at something, what if I asked a dumb question about FPGA's but was petulant about a response because I'm a special snowflake?
I reckon the word "anything" is too forgiving of an entitled attitude, on a forum where people being paid 6 figure sums are bothering to answer.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2016, 12:05:58 pm by bitslice »
 
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Offline Kilrah

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Re: See Y'all!
« Reply #36 on: August 29, 2016, 11:41:47 am »
Exactly. I've never seen anyone shout at a newbie because he didn't know something but someone with an attitude will be put back in place, whether he's a noob or not, and I don't see anything wrong with that. Again while it might hurt it's probably the best that could happen to them by hopefully making them realize it.
 

Offline Stuartambient

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Re: See Y'all!
« Reply #37 on: August 29, 2016, 11:45:22 am »
I joined this forum in mid June of this year.  I started 14 threads, in the short time, which were all questions. Not in any of those did I get a rude or snarky answer.  I've also watched (and watching) a few threads here and haven't seen any rude responses.  Also read the OP's original thread and didn't notice anything of a particular rude nature in the responses.  This whole bruhaha is nothing and warrants a 'SMH'.
 

Offline bitslice

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Re: See Y'all!
« Reply #38 on: August 29, 2016, 12:03:48 pm »
Don't make it look like those are my words. I was just quoting the sticky in the Beginners section.

yes it could be seen like that, apologies, have edited my post
 

Offline Brumby

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Re: See Y'all!
« Reply #39 on: August 29, 2016, 12:10:36 pm »
I will forgive anyone for not knowing a basic piece of information that I've know since I was 10.  I would hope that other members here would offer me the same courtesy.

However, I will not easily suffer anyone who presents themselves as 'entitled' or expect to be patted on the head for being a smart-arse ... or like those wannabes on those talent show auditions who spit the dummy when they are told they can't sing, despite what Aunty Flo has been saying since they were in nappies.
... because I'm a special snowflake?
Yes.  Like that.



Lack of knowledge can be forgiven.  A childish attitude is quite something else.
 
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Offline tec5c

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Re: See Y'all!
« Reply #40 on: August 29, 2016, 01:08:09 pm »
Perhaps I am being ignorant here, though I don't even see the "attack" on the OP (I am referring to his original thread, not this one) that made him declare that everyone here is rude... If it is clear to others then I must be a part of the problem!   :popcorn:

 
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Offline 3db

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Re: See Y'all!
« Reply #41 on: August 29, 2016, 01:29:39 pm »
on a forum where people being paid 6 figure sums are bothering to answer.
The OP may have been unaware of this vital fact.
If it's a beginner then they should be treated with kid gloves IMHO.
There's is nothing forcing anyone here to respond to any posting regardless of their experience or knowledge.
I didn't read the original post nor can I be bothered doing so.
Just my tuppence worth to the thread.   :D
 
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Offline Delta

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Re: See Y'all!
« Reply #42 on: August 29, 2016, 01:51:46 pm »
I can't see Generation Snowflake producing many engineers...
 
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Offline Stuartambient

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Re: See Y'all!
« Reply #43 on: August 29, 2016, 02:17:48 pm »
I can't see Generation Snowflake producing many engineers...

Might be a good thing, keeping those who can and do the work in demand.  I know the local university's engineering programs are still well populated but also demanding both for entrance and graduation.  Could be Darwin at work for lack of a better analogy.
 

Offline tooki

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Re: See Y'all!
« Reply #44 on: August 29, 2016, 03:32:03 pm »
I think part of the problem on forums for technical fields is that many engineering type folks simply do not realize the line between blunt and rude. What they perceive as a utilitarian response is actually decidedly rude by the standards of society at large.
 

Offline Kilrah

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Re: See Y'all!
« Reply #45 on: August 29, 2016, 05:37:43 pm »
There is no "line", just different ways of thinking. You can just as well consider "society at large" is way too easily offended (which the "special snowflake" articles refer to).
 

Offline Zero999

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Re: See Y'all!
« Reply #46 on: August 29, 2016, 06:08:25 pm »
Society varies across the world. What is rude in one culture is not in another, which should be taken into account on an Internet forum, where people from all around the world read and post.
 
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