Author Topic: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project  (Read 39629 times)

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Offline DavinD

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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #75 on: July 24, 2017, 02:30:05 am »
I've had better luck buying a whole ex or hx that has the memory expansion card.  They can be had for around $150 US.
 

Offline djos

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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #76 on: July 24, 2017, 03:24:47 am »
So, the cable I made doesn't fit into the 1000ex.  It has the right number of pins, but the connector is too wide.  I would need to break the plastic edges off the connector on the expansion board, and I'm not sure I want to do that.  :(

I found the same thing, it appears that the 2 cable restraint adds too much width - this is what I noticed after going back to look at the one I was copying.

https://youtu.be/3XTh4Q_hiHk?list=PLWCU3oJQLcJa1dxNBFWPKI7p6dYTdpebW

I didnt bother going any further as i'll be able to test the PCB version hopefully this week. Im hoping that v0.8 will fit in the top slot and still allow the expansion bay cover to close ... if not it's back to the drawing board. Mentally I've already come up with a solution but it'll be PITA as I it requires all new everything and I'll have about $100 of components lying around which I'll need to repurpose (I've got an idea for solution that would only waste the existing PCB's).
« Last Edit: July 24, 2017, 03:52:18 am by djos »
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Offline djos

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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #77 on: July 24, 2017, 03:50:56 am »
Hey there! Been following this thread with interest. I have a Tandy 1000HX, very similar to the EX, and have been trying to figure out how to add more memory. Plus adapters and the Memory Expansion Card seem to be impossible to source though. If I understand this thread correctly (I'm a bit of a noob) you're designing your own Plus adapter for the Tandy Memory Expansion Card you already have?

If I were to buy or build a Plus card adapter are there any other memory cards that would work with my Tandy? Or do I have to have a Tandy brand one?

Any help or suggestions are greatly appreciated!!

Hey I've done some more research and it turns out you can add an XT-IDE card running in PIO/BIU mode to a Tandy 1000 without the DMA/Ram board and it will work just fine. A serial card will also work ok too.

Only issue then is the 256kb ram - you could add a lo-tech ram board but im honestly not sure how well that would work
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Offline djos

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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #78 on: July 24, 2017, 03:51:59 am »
I've had better luck buying a whole ex or hx that has the memory expansion card.  They can be had for around $150 US.

yeah I found the same thing - my EX with Ram & Modem cost me ~$170 AUD landed.
The impossible often has a kind of integrity which the merely improbable lacks.

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Offline djos

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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #79 on: July 25, 2017, 02:20:40 am »
Sooo, I've hit a snag with the PLUS to ISA adapter - v0.8 it doesnt allow you to close the expansion bay cover!  :palm:

Anyhoo, not a big deal, I've come up with two new designs that im just finishing off.

PLUS to ISA adapter v1.0 is for those with Ram Expansions and requires one adapter per socket - it has a 62 pin header on the bottom and a right angle Edge Slot on the top for the lowest possible profile. (this design isnt 100% finished but is really close)




PLUS to ISA adapter v2.0 is for those without Ram Expansions and Im hoping will provide 3x ISA slots in a riser format - this image is just a teaser as the auto routing is rubbish and I havent had time to finish the design properly yet including slot spacings.

« Last Edit: July 25, 2017, 02:24:14 am by djos »
The impossible often has a kind of integrity which the merely improbable lacks.

Visit my Tindie store for Tandy 1000 Adapters for EX, HX, SX, SL, TX & TL etc
 

Offline DavinD

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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #80 on: July 25, 2017, 02:53:07 am »
Have you tested the IDE controller to see that it actually works?
 

Offline djos

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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #81 on: July 25, 2017, 03:16:54 am »
Have you tested the IDE controller to see that it actually works?

It works in my other old PC (K6-III+), but I havent tested it in my Tandy yet - just waiting on my replacement power plug.
The impossible often has a kind of integrity which the merely improbable lacks.

Visit my Tindie store for Tandy 1000 Adapters for EX, HX, SX, SL, TX & TL etc
 

Offline bitseeker

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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #82 on: July 26, 2017, 12:02:35 am »
Since 1.0 and 2.0 are for different machine configurations, rather than one supplanting the other, you might want to differentiate them by name instead. For example, add "/R" or "/X" to the name of the 1.0 since it goes with the RAM Expansion or "/NR" for No RAM Expansion.

1.0 -> PLUS-ISA/R 1.0
2.0 -> PLUS-ISA 1.0

or

1.0 -> PLUS-ISA 1.0
2.0 -> PLUS-ISA/NR 1.0
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Offline djos

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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #83 on: July 26, 2017, 12:33:35 am »
Since 1.0 and 2.0 are for different machine configurations, rather than one supplanting the other, you might want to differentiate them by name instead. For example, add "/R" or "/X" to the name of the 1.0 since it goes with the RAM Expansion or "/NR" for No RAM Expansion.

1.0 -> PLUS-ISA/R 1.0
2.0 -> PLUS-ISA 1.0

or

1.0 -> PLUS-ISA 1.0
2.0 -> PLUS-ISA/NR 1.0

Sensible idea mate, I'll likely do that once I have my act together.  ;D

Btw, regarding the PLUS-ISA adaptors for those with a RAM expansion, I had a bit of a brain wave last night, I think can create even more room in the vertical by putting large edge-connector style pads down on the top and bottom of the PCB (like you see on an actual ISA expansion card) and soldering the edge connector directly on to them so the expansion cards would be installed at the same height in the expansion bay as a PLUS card would be.

The reason I think I need to do this is there's just bugger all height and even a small thin card like the XT CF-IDE adaptor is going to have space issues.

sort of like this Amiga 500 side expansion:



I think I'll do a 5 board run and test my theory out before proceeding with selling boards to others - I dont want folks to buy something that only has the ability to install one ISA card via the lower expansion connector before running out of room.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2017, 12:35:37 am by djos »
The impossible often has a kind of integrity which the merely improbable lacks.

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Offline bitseeker

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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #84 on: July 26, 2017, 12:56:46 am »
Yep, sounds good. Neat little family of projects you've got.
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Offline djos

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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #85 on: July 26, 2017, 01:00:12 am »
Yep, sounds good. Neat little family of projects you've got.

Cheers, it's been a very interesting learning process so far and If others can benefit from my ideas too, I'll be even happier.
The impossible often has a kind of integrity which the merely improbable lacks.

Visit my Tindie store for Tandy 1000 Adapters for EX, HX, SX, SL, TX & TL etc
 

Offline DavinD

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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #86 on: July 26, 2017, 03:20:47 am »
Now just get it done so I can buy one or two.   ;D
 

Offline djos

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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #87 on: July 26, 2017, 04:33:08 am »
Now just get it done so I can buy one or two.   ;D

oh trust me Im trying - designing PCB's is knew to me so I was bound to make plenty of mistakes along the way.  :box:

 :D
The impossible often has a kind of integrity which the merely improbable lacks.

Visit my Tindie store for Tandy 1000 Adapters for EX, HX, SX, SL, TX & TL etc
 

Offline djos

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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #88 on: July 27, 2017, 02:40:21 am »
I finally got my replacement power plug last night for my EX!



and my Tandy 1000 EX lives!



and boots DOS 5.0 off my external floppy drive using my FDD Cable & Adapters! So they work which is awesome!



However I do have some issues with my 1000 EX that I need to sort out and didnt have the time to properly investigate last night. On top of that I think my 240-110v Step down transformer is too weak to properly power my 1000 - I've got another one in my HT that can provide more current and will hopefully solve the problem. I cant get it to power up with the PLUS Ram expansion in it, I don't even get fan spin in the power supply, which is why I suspect my step-down transformer being a bit gutless - it does this about 1 in 3 times without the expansion installed too.
The impossible often has a kind of integrity which the merely improbable lacks.

Visit my Tindie store for Tandy 1000 Adapters for EX, HX, SX, SL, TX & TL etc
 

Offline djos

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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #89 on: July 27, 2017, 10:09:42 pm »
Well chaps, I'm one very relieved EX owner right now! Last night I found the cause of my problems, I'd removed the stupid rubberised EMF shield and the mainboard must have been contacting the steel bottom shield (due to the shield adding a millimetre or so in space) - anyhoo, some thin metal washers placed under the mainboard solved the problem, my EX boots first time every time now and the RAM expansion works now too!







I just need to test my adapter design so I can proceed to the next step.  8)
The impossible often has a kind of integrity which the merely improbable lacks.

Visit my Tindie store for Tandy 1000 Adapters for EX, HX, SX, SL, TX & TL etc
 

Offline djos

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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #90 on: July 28, 2017, 10:23:49 pm »
Update: Im making fast progress now, I built a couple of POC adapters last night to make sure my design works ..... and it does! :D





Phwoar!!! PIO mode with BIU offload using the XTP (V20 Plus version) XT-IDE R566 Bios gets almost 1/2 a Megabyte a second, pretty darn impressive for a 7Mhz machine and a non-DMA HDD host adapter!



So next step is for me to finish the next revision of the PLUS-ISA adapter is this version works but it's too tall, you can put a card into the lower slot and close the lid, but not the top slot.

The impossible often has a kind of integrity which the merely improbable lacks.

Visit my Tindie store for Tandy 1000 Adapters for EX, HX, SX, SL, TX & TL etc
 
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Offline bitseeker

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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #91 on: July 28, 2017, 10:29:58 pm »
Wow, lots of good progress since I last saw this thread, djos. Way to go.
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Offline djos

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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #92 on: July 28, 2017, 10:32:55 pm »
Wow, lots of good progress since I last saw this thread, djos. Way to go.

Cheers mate. Im happy to be finally getting somewhere!  :-+
The impossible often has a kind of integrity which the merely improbable lacks.

Visit my Tindie store for Tandy 1000 Adapters for EX, HX, SX, SL, TX & TL etc
 

Offline adrianblack

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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #93 on: July 28, 2017, 10:33:59 pm »
Wow, how epic!! I have the memory expansion board in my EX (With the DMA controller) so now want to try this out too in non PIO mode. I'm lucky enough to have the Tandy serial card in mine for some hot "mouse" action. I was given the whole setup by someone here who was about to throw it away since the computer wasn't working.

Had you seen my video (posted just the other day) about using a floppy emulator to get 2.5mb floppy images on the Tandy 1000 EX? I used a $17 USD Gotek with 10 euro HxC firmware.  Also there is a video about using a 3.5" floppy internally on the EX. (Any 3.5" HD drive will do. The cable needs a small modification.)

I had to replace one IC on my EX to get it working and I Found a source for Tandy parts in the UK that pretty much has everything. They bought the entire stock of Tandy UK parts when they closed up shop in the 90s and seem to have everything on hand.

They likely have the DMA chip required to build a new memory expansion board with the DMA controller.

Autogard UK: http://www.autogarduk.com/
I was working with Martyn there, email address: SALES@autogard.freeserve.co.uk

Tandy 1000 EX floppy emulator video:
(other 1000 EX videos on my channel too like the repair video and CPU/floppy replacement video.)

 

Offline bitseeker

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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #94 on: July 28, 2017, 10:36:39 pm »
I saw your video in my queue yesterday, but haven't watched it yet. Will check it out.
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Offline djos

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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #95 on: July 28, 2017, 10:39:30 pm »
Wow, how epic!! I have the memory expansion board in my EX (With the DMA controller) so now want to try this out too in non PIO mode. I'm lucky enough to have the Tandy serial card in mine for some hot "mouse" action. I was given the whole setup by someone here who was about to throw it away since the computer wasn't working.

Had you seen my video (posted just the other day) about using a floppy emulator to get 2.5mb floppy images on the Tandy 1000 EX? I used a $17 USD Gotek with 10 euro HxC firmware.  Also there is a video about using a 3.5" floppy internally on the EX. (Any 3.5" HD drive will do. The cable needs a small modification.)

I had to replace one IC on my EX to get it working and I Found a source for Tandy parts in the UK that pretty much has everything. They bought the entire stock of Tandy UK parts when they closed up shop in the 90s and seem to have everything on hand.

They likely have the DMA chip required to build a new memory expansion board with the DMA controller.

Autogard UK: http://www.autogarduk.com/
I was working with Martyn there, email address: SALES@autogard.freeserve.co.uk

Tandy 1000 EX floppy emulator video:
(other 1000 EX videos on my channel too like the repair video and CPU/floppy replacement video.)

OMG, this is cool, I've watched your video's on fixing up your via the new chip you got from Autogard (I have the same revision with the passive mods) and then converting it to use a 3.5" floppy internally. They were great videos and I subscribed to your channel as a result!

I havent seen your latest one tho, been too busy watching American God's on my train commute this week! :D

PS, Im familiar with the Goteks, I frequently build them for my Amiga buddies by adding the required headers and re-flashing them with HxC Amiga FW. I have no plans to put one in my EX tho, as long as I have a CF HDD in mine I can transfer files easily that way.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2017, 10:41:49 pm by djos »
The impossible often has a kind of integrity which the merely improbable lacks.

Visit my Tindie store for Tandy 1000 Adapters for EX, HX, SX, SL, TX & TL etc
 

Offline djos

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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #96 on: July 28, 2017, 10:47:50 pm »
@Adrianblack

Lol, just started watching your latest video and you are using the HxC gotek firmware too - it works exceptionally well in Amiga's also.

PS, the Red LED shows when the HxC firmware is doing low level access eg during FW upgrades from USB if you are upgrading an already flashed unit.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2017, 10:52:14 pm by djos »
The impossible often has a kind of integrity which the merely improbable lacks.

Visit my Tindie store for Tandy 1000 Adapters for EX, HX, SX, SL, TX & TL etc
 

Offline adrianblack

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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #97 on: July 28, 2017, 11:35:35 pm »
Put me on the list to buy one of your adapters when it is time. I bought some stuff to start trying to make my own but too much retrocomputing stuff piled up ahead of it!

I had a couple 8-bit ISA cards I was thinking of trying. I wonder if we could build a little external case to hold a couple ISA cards with a ribbon cable too. That would be neat.

XT-IDE, Network card, maybe a normal Serial/Parallel card. I don't have the Tandy funky cable to hook my Tandy printer up.
 

Offline djos

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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #98 on: July 28, 2017, 11:48:24 pm »
Put me on the list to buy one of your adapters when it is time. I bought some stuff to start trying to make my own but too much retrocomputing stuff piled up ahead of it!

I had a couple 8-bit ISA cards I was thinking of trying. I wonder if we could build a little external case to hold a couple ISA cards with a ribbon cable too. That would be neat.

XT-IDE, Network card, maybe a normal Serial/Parallel card. I don't have the Tandy funky cable to hook my Tandy printer up.

Will do.

Yeah I'm going to use mine for a serial card to drive a mouse and my c.f. XT IDE board. I'm tossing up between using a c.f. Card or a microdrive as I have several of the 4 GB units lying around and they are surprisingly fast. In my Amiga the microdrive's also have lower CPU overheads for some reason.

Others have made similar suggestions, in theory it seems possible but I wonder how sensitive the ISA bus is to "trace length "? That would be the limiting factor I think.

I've got a design in my head for Tandy edge connector to DB25 adaptor but I made a replacement disk drive adapter cable and it was rather easy.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2017, 11:53:10 pm by djos »
The impossible often has a kind of integrity which the merely improbable lacks.

Visit my Tindie store for Tandy 1000 Adapters for EX, HX, SX, SL, TX & TL etc
 

Offline bitseeker

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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #99 on: July 28, 2017, 11:51:01 pm »
Put buffer/driver ICs to drive the extension?
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