Author Topic: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project  (Read 35679 times)

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Offline djos

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G'day All, my current project is a Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card design and build. technically it's stupidly straight forward. The Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion connector is a 62 Pin IDC style connector which is electrically compatible with the IBM 8-Bit ISA edge card's. It wont even need any components other than a Right angle female IDC header & two 8-Bit ISA Slots.

So rather than Bodge something up on Proto-Board, I thought I'd design something properly in Eagle and use that as an excuse to learn Eagle at the same time. I've found some excellent tutorials on Eagle from Jeremy Blum and I've had lots of fun downloading loads of parts Libraries (I got the entire Element 14 collection) and trawling thru them.

I'm kinda stuck atm tho - part of the issue is the pc-con library has the 8-Bit ISA Edge connector part but not the 8-Bit ISA Slot; It has the 16-Bit ISA Slot tho.

The other challenge I've found is the IDC style connector, my Riser Board needs a 62-Pin right angle Female Header, but there isnt one in all the libraries I have.

So I thought maybe I could customise the 16-Bit ISA Slot (chop the smaller 16-Bit extension off the end) and also cut down a larger header to 62 Pins. However i'm not finding any good tutorials on how to do this - I did find one but the version of Eagle being used was v5 (iirc) and it merely confused me as the UI seems to have changed quite a bit in some areas. Any ideas from the Eagle pro's here?

Anyhoo, here's the 8-Bit ISA specs: http://www.hamradio.cc/computer/isa_bus_pinouts.php

and the Tandy 1000ex Technical reference Manual: ftp://ftp.oldskool.org/pub/tvdog/tandy1000/documents/extech.zip

For Parts Supply, I cant find and caches of 8-Bit ISA Slots or right angle 62-pin female headers floating around the net (I doubt Sullins will fire up their production line for my tiny requirements) so I'm going to scavenge the 8-Bit ISA Slots from an old 286 Mainboard and cut down some right angle 64-pin female headers to 62-pin.
The impossible often has a kind of integrity which the merely improbable lacks.

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Offline bitseeker

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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #1 on: April 26, 2017, 08:03:49 pm »
Yep, any old XT/AT motherboard should be fine as a connector donor.

Does this mean you found a 1000?
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Offline djos

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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #2 on: April 26, 2017, 08:49:52 pm »
Yep, any old XT/AT motherboard should be fine as a connector donor.

Does this mean you found a 1000?

Not yet but I can't help myself and I'll design and build this while I wait for the right unit. I know there are other Tandy 1000ex / hx owners out there who would like a tidy solution too as I've seen a few folk using bodged up solutions using ribbon cables etc. So I plan to do small run of boards once I get it right.
The impossible often has a kind of integrity which the merely improbable lacks.

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Offline bitseeker

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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #3 on: April 26, 2017, 10:01:56 pm »
Sounds good! I was just curious.
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Offline djos

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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #4 on: April 26, 2017, 10:09:17 pm »
Btw I found a supplier in Hong Kong (XinYu Technology Industry Limited) who claims to have new Sullins Connector Solutions EBC31DCWN-S371 ISA slots in stock for $6.50 USD each, so I may not need to sacrifice an old mainboard after all.

I also figured out how to clone and edit parts in Eagle, boy is it painful tho, the graphics editing abilities are horrendous, it'd be easier to draw the board view connector on my Amiga 500 in deluxe paint!

P.s. Any questions or constructive criticism is entirely welcome, I've never designed a pcb before so this is all undiscovered country for me. Previously I've just made one off proto-board's with no thought to doing it nicely.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2017, 10:14:46 pm by djos »
The impossible often has a kind of integrity which the merely improbable lacks.

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Offline djos

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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #5 on: April 26, 2017, 11:52:39 pm »
For those wondering why I'm bothering, the Tandy 1000 ex/hx use a stacking system for expansion cards with the 8-Bit cards placed horizontally on top of the ram/dma board:

here's an unpopulated expansion bay:



and here you can see two cards stacked on top of each other:



and this is the Ram/DMA expansion card that my PLUS-ISA Riser card will plug into - the idea is to slot into the bottom slot (on the left in the pic) and allow for 2x 8-Bit ISA cards to be installed horizontally. I plan to use the riser board to install an XT-IDE card (Im building that atm) and a NOS 8-Bit Serial card I found on FLeaBay (so I can use a serial mouse) into a yet to be purchased Tandy 1000 ex.

« Last Edit: April 27, 2017, 12:03:43 am by djos »
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Offline djos

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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #6 on: May 05, 2017, 01:15:44 am »
Parts are starting to come in, I just need to finish designing the PCB now.

I acquired an old 386 MB with the separate 8-Bit ISA slots I can desolder and reuse - there's enough to make 4 2-slot adaptor boards.  8)

The impossible often has a kind of integrity which the merely improbable lacks.

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Offline djos

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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #7 on: May 05, 2017, 05:03:31 am »
Huzzah, I finally found the 62 pin right-angle headers I need on Digi-key!  8)

https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/sullins-connector-solutions/PPPC312LJBN-RC/S5584-ND/776042

« Last Edit: May 05, 2017, 05:16:15 am by djos »
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Offline bitseeker

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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #8 on: May 05, 2017, 04:56:22 pm »
It's kind of funny that the photo of that old motherboard has a watermark "k-collectibles" and then the collectible is about to have its parts re-purposed. ;D
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Offline djos

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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #9 on: May 05, 2017, 09:45:35 pm »
It's kind of funny that the photo of that old motherboard has a watermark "k-collectibles" and then the collectible is about to have its parts re-purposed. ;D

Lol, yeah clone 386 boards are hardly collectable.  ;D
The impossible often has a kind of integrity which the merely improbable lacks.

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Offline djos

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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #10 on: May 07, 2017, 04:49:34 am »
So finally making progress learning Eagle and succeeded in building an 8-Bit ISA Slot part. I found a physically & electrically compatible 62-pin male header which saved me the trouble of dodging up right-angle female header as everything on the PCB is identical.

I'm not impressed with the auto-router tho, the result is a bit rubbish ... although that may be my inexperience showing.  :-\

I haven't bothered doing any physical measurements yet so the PCB part placement is very rough .. I'll wait till bait theory gets me my 1000ex and then I'll print out mock up's on paper and tweak as required before getting the PCB's made up.

« Last Edit: May 07, 2017, 04:51:14 am by djos »
The impossible often has a kind of integrity which the merely improbable lacks.

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Offline krho

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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #11 on: May 07, 2017, 06:00:09 am »
Your schematic is completely unreadable.
I don't know eagle but There should be something named BUS or like that that would help you draw a readable schematic.
 

Offline djos

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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #12 on: May 07, 2017, 06:07:24 am »
Your schematic is completely unreadable.
I don't know eagle but There should be something named BUS or like that that would help you draw a readable schematic.

It's ridiculously simple, just straight connections from "Row 1" of the header to "Row A" of each Slot and from "Row 2" of the header to "Row B" of each Slot.

PS, I think my tracks are too thick to pass between the pins of the slots resulting in the horrendous mess above!   :palm:

PSS, there is a bus option but I have no idea how to use it..... yet.  :-[
« Last Edit: May 07, 2017, 06:14:41 am by djos »
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Offline djos

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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #13 on: May 21, 2017, 01:59:28 am »
So I gave up on Eagle (what a POS) and gave DipTrace a go on my old dual boot MacBook - wow, so much better to use in most areas. Finding components is a bit harder but everything else is orders of magnitude easier to use!

I made this in 2 hours and sure the schematic is ugly as sin (why bother with buses when the design is so simple) but the PCB design was dead easy. I need to finish it off but at least being able to use the right size parts resulted in a auto-router getting it mostly right on the first go!





That said, now I have a better understanding of DipTrace, I'll do it again properly when I have time.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2017, 07:57:37 am by djos »
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Offline djos

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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #14 on: May 22, 2017, 01:58:19 am »
Hmmm, sometimes the simple solutions are the best. I still plan to make the PCB based adaptor however in the meantime I made this ribbon cable PLUS-ISA adaptor (and a couple of Lo-tech ISA CompactFlash Adaptors too).

I couldnt get 62 Pin IDC edge connectors and used a 64 pin IDC edge connector instead - I'll prolly stuff a plastic blocker in the far end to prevent incorrect card insertions.


« Last Edit: May 22, 2017, 02:00:58 am by djos »
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Offline bitseeker

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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #15 on: May 22, 2017, 09:08:58 pm »
Yep, sometimes just go with what works at the moment. :-+
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Offline djos

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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #16 on: May 23, 2017, 04:03:17 am »
Yep, sometimes just go with what works at the moment. :-+

Too true mate.

I realised I forgot to order the 2.2uF Tantalum Caps to enable 5v via the key pin (p20) on the XT-IDE header, so I've banged off an order to RS for some. I've also modded some cheap IDE-CF adaptors to use p20 for power by adding the missing pin 20, desoldering the Floppy power connector and adding a mod wire from pin 20 to the 5v input.  8)



PS, the huge solder-blob on the modded adaptor was there from the factory.  :palm:
« Last Edit: May 23, 2017, 04:05:29 am by djos »
The impossible often has a kind of integrity which the merely improbable lacks.

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Offline djos

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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #17 on: May 31, 2017, 10:06:52 pm »
I stumbled across a cache of NOS 8 Bit ISA slots recently and couldnt help myself, I bought a lot of 50 which worked out to $1 AUD each shipped! Winner winner, chicken dinner!  ;D



I guess I should really pull my finger out and finish designing this board!  :-DD
« Last Edit: June 01, 2017, 04:19:55 am by djos »
The impossible often has a kind of integrity which the merely improbable lacks.

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Offline djos

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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #18 on: June 01, 2017, 04:39:29 am »
Im thinking that now I have so many ISA slots, I might change the design concept to be a single 1-to-1 slot adapter. That way if folks have a PLUS Serial card they wish to keep, they can just install a single adapter in the tallest PLUS expansion socket to install an ISA card. And if they want to install 2x ISA cards, they install 2x adapters, 1 per PLUS expansion socket.

I think it will be a more flexible solution ... and simpler and cheaper.
The impossible often has a kind of integrity which the merely improbable lacks.

Visit my Tindie store for Tandy 1000 Adapters for EX, HX, SX, SL, TX & TL etc
 

Offline bitseeker

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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #19 on: June 01, 2017, 10:40:44 pm »
That's a lot of ISA sockets! ^-^
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Offline djos

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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #20 on: June 01, 2017, 10:52:10 pm »
That's a lot of ISA sockets! ^-^

Not wrong, I see a lot of soldering in my future!  ;D
The impossible often has a kind of integrity which the merely improbable lacks.

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Offline bitseeker

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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #21 on: June 01, 2017, 11:00:48 pm »
You could make yourself quite a bus expansion chassis and case for more than just two cards.
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Offline djos

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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #22 on: June 01, 2017, 11:07:42 pm »
You could make yourself quite a bus expansion chassis and case for more than just two cards.

Quite true and I have considered it. I prolly won't bother simply because the 1000ex has built in sound and 16 color enhanced CGA graphics so all it needs is a serial port for a mouse and mass storage. I suppose I could add an EMS memory card but for the era of games I plan to use it for, there isn't much point.
The impossible often has a kind of integrity which the merely improbable lacks.

Visit my Tindie store for Tandy 1000 Adapters for EX, HX, SX, SL, TX & TL etc
 

Offline bitseeker

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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #23 on: June 05, 2017, 03:42:40 am »
Perhaps an EGA card for more colors on games that support it, but you'd probably have to be able to disable the onboard CGA.
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Offline djos

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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #24 on: June 05, 2017, 04:20:49 am »
Perhaps an EGA card for more colors on games that support it, but you'd probably have to be able to disable the onboard CGA.

Tandy CGA already supports 16 colors and there's a huge amount of XT games that support it. One option would be to use an 8 bit VGA card, however I'm fairly certain the 1000ex has no way of disabling the onboard video.
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Offline bitseeker

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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #25 on: June 06, 2017, 04:11:47 am »
Oh, I didn't realize that they had extended CGA that much. Cool.
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Offline djos

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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #26 on: June 06, 2017, 06:16:30 am »
Oh, I didn't realize that they had extended CGA that much. Cool.

It's basically IBM PCjr graphics but known to most as TGA. This is because the Tandy 1000 line was so successful and the PCjr died such a quick death. On the EX you had to have 384kb of ram or more to use the mode but for most games (eg from Sierra etc) there was no practical difference between EGA and CGA on an XT (other than 16 colours only being available at 320x200 vs 640x350 for EGA).

there a good Wiki on TGA here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tandy_Graphics_Adapter
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Offline DavinD

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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #27 on: June 12, 2017, 07:58:30 pm »
I'd be interested in one of these boards if you end up making them.  Also, do you have a part list link for the cable you made?
 

Offline djos

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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #28 on: June 12, 2017, 09:54:27 pm »
I'd be interested in one of these boards if you end up making them.  Also, do you have a part list link for the cable you made?

Cheers, once I've finished building my last two isa IDE boards (seriously time poor atm) I'll finish of the design. Would you find the 1:1 plus-isa adaptor more useful than a 1:2 plus-isa adaptor?

As for the ribbon cable version, I bought all the parts from Vetco. They have the 62 pin idc female headers but not 62 pin edge connectors so I used the 64 pin versions and bought and trimmed 64 wire ribbon cable also.

Female header (not keyed, ignore the picture):
https://vetco.net/products/62-pin-idc-female-socket-connector-0-1

Edge connector:
https://vetco.net/products/64-pin-card-edge-female-connector

The impossible often has a kind of integrity which the merely improbable lacks.

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Offline DavinD

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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #29 on: June 12, 2017, 09:59:39 pm »
Would you find the 1:1 plus-isa adaptor more useful than a 1:2 plus-isa adaptor?

That's a good question.  I'm guessing 1:1 as hopefully I'll find a plus serial adapter out there and will only need it for the ide interface.  It has been a lot of fun "playing" with the first ever PC I owned 30+ years ago.

I still need to find the 3.5 inch external drive.  I had one with my original PC, but haven't been able to find one now.  If only I had kept it all.
 

Offline djos

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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #30 on: June 12, 2017, 10:20:35 pm »
Would you find the 1:1 plus-isa adaptor more useful than a 1:2 plus-isa adaptor?

That's a good question.  I'm guessing 1:1 as hopefully I'll find a plus serial adapter out there and will only need it for the ide interface.  It has been a lot of fun "playing" with the first ever PC I owned 30+ years ago.

I still need to find the 3.5 inch external drive.  I had one with my original PC, but haven't been able to find one now.  If only I had kept it all.

Cool, I think the 1:1 is the go also as it allows for mixing and matching of plus and isa boards.

The external drives do pop up on eBay occasionally (i bagged the last one to appear) we never had the external drive for ours but we did have the ram expansion and serial card which we used for a real mouse. The Tandy mouse that was available for use in the joystick ports was pretty crap as the pots had finite range of movement.
The impossible often has a kind of integrity which the merely improbable lacks.

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Offline DavinD

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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #31 on: June 12, 2017, 10:24:45 pm »
Where'd you source the 62 conductor ribbon cable?
 

Offline djos

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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #32 on: June 12, 2017, 11:35:21 pm »
Where'd you source the 62 conductor ribbon cable?

I didn't, I got 64 wire ribbon cable from Vetco and removed 2 wires.
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Offline DavinD

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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #33 on: June 13, 2017, 01:31:25 am »
That's what I thought.  One more question.  Since you used the Lo-Tech card, which way does it go in?  I'm un-sure with regards to front and back of a standard PC, which is PIN 1.  Hope the question makes sense.  I don't want to insert it backwards.
 

Offline djos

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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #34 on: June 13, 2017, 01:53:21 am »
That's what I thought.  One more question.  Since you used the Lo-Tech card, which way does it go in?  I'm un-sure with regards to front and back of a standard PC, which is PIN 1.  Hope the question makes sense.  I don't want to insert it backwards.

So I deliberately use the Red Stripe at the end which will be closest to the back of the case and with the ISA-CF-IDE card the IDE header end of the card is the back - meaning it is closest to the rear of the case also. I made sure the red stripe of ribbon cable was installed at the end of the connector also. This will be Pin 1 for both connectors. See pic below:

This should work as shown but I havent been able to test it myself as my 1000 EX hasnt arrived yet. The EEPROM chips used in these are quite "fragile" and will die if the board is in the wrong way (the other chips wont care). So the easy test is to remove the EEPROM chip and see if the machine boots ok without it. if the board is in the wrong way you'll likely get some weirdness or errors - otherwise the Tandy should work just fine as tho the board isnt there.

btw, use a bench vice or large clamp to "install" the ribbon cables into the IDC termination block as they need a fair bit of pressure to install properly. Just dont go all in, ease on the force until it's really well terminated and the clamp part of the termination block sits nice and flat by itself.

Make sure you orient the cable as shown below - ie coming out of the PLUS Female header towards the ISA Slot, looping back over away from the ISA Slot and then coming top down into the ISA slot with the back 2 pins (end furthest away from red stripe) not connected. I'm 99% sure this will work as i've mapped it out in my head - it's copied from a couple of video's I've seen of similar adaptors so im fairly confident in the implementation.  ;D

« Last Edit: June 13, 2017, 02:00:41 am by djos »
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Offline DavinD

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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #35 on: June 13, 2017, 01:57:55 am »
Thanks a bunch.  I should have all my stuff in a week or so.  We'll see how it goes.
 

Offline djos

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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #36 on: June 13, 2017, 02:02:09 am »
Thanks a bunch.  I should have all my stuff in a week or so.  We'll see how it goes.

No worries. Btw I updated my post above with extra info.  :D
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Offline DavinD

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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #37 on: June 13, 2017, 02:04:35 am »
Haha, thanks!  Maybe I'll let you try it first and if it works, you can post a pic all installed. :-DD
 

Offline djos

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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #38 on: June 13, 2017, 02:19:57 am »
Haha, thanks!  Maybe I'll let you try it first and if it works, you can post a pic all installed. :-DD

Awesome - TBH I'd try an old ISA serial card, with a serial mouse, first to ensure the apdator works (this is my plan).  8)

PS I'm happy for other 1000 owners to post here with pic's etc.  :-+
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Offline djos

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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #39 on: June 14, 2017, 01:06:00 am »
Yep, sometimes just go with what works at the moment. :-+

Too true mate.

I realised I forgot to order the 2.2uF Tantalum Caps to enable 5v via the key pin (p20) on the XT-IDE header, so I've banged off an order to RS for some. I've also modded some cheap IDE-CF adaptors to use p20 for power by adding the missing pin 20, desoldering the Floppy power connector and adding a mod wire from pin 20 to the 5v input.  8)



PS, the huge solder-blob on the modded adaptor was there from the factory.  :palm:

NOTE: the above CF adaptors dont work in ISA-CF IDE adaptors, there's something not right with the design rendering it incompatible with other systems too. I found the ones below which must conform to spec better as they work great in everything I've tried.

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Offline DavinD

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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #40 on: June 14, 2017, 01:51:12 am »
I ordered this one.  We'll have to see how it work.  I'll probably try it out in my old 386 first.

https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B001HZ5HMS/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
 

Offline djos

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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #41 on: June 14, 2017, 02:07:13 am »
I ordered this one.  We'll have to see how it work.  I'll probably try it out in my old 386 first.

https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B001HZ5HMS/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

That should work fine as like the ones I have it has selection for voltage and some passives to keep things under control.
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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #42 on: June 17, 2017, 12:24:32 am »
I just finished an adaptor board design in Diptrace for Tandy 1000 external floppy drives (the cables cant be made easily as 30pin IDC Edge connectors as extinct) and placed the Order with Elecrow - should be an interesting trial run for the riser design:



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Offline djos

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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #43 on: June 17, 2017, 10:45:21 am »
So I think I've finished the adapter design - im not going to get it made just yet, I'll prolly wait till I can test some printed paper models first:




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Offline djos

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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #44 on: June 23, 2017, 11:48:20 am »
I just finished an adaptor board design in Diptrace for Tandy 1000 external floppy drives (the cables cant be made easily as 30pin IDC Edge connectors as extinct) and placed the Order with Elecrow - should be an interesting trial run for the riser design:




So my first ever PCB boards are in transit right now from Elecrow, they even sent me a picture!  :-+

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Offline djos

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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #45 on: June 27, 2017, 09:12:39 pm »
Just waiting on the PCB's now. :cool:



and my 1000 EX is due next week now, so hopefully I'll be ordering the PLUS-ISA PCB's soon too.
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Offline djos

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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #46 on: June 28, 2017, 10:09:28 am »
Huzzah, my Tandy 3.5" drive and the Adapter PCB's both arrived today and the adaptors will work and fit perfectly!



Just waiting on my 1000 EX now.  8)

PS, Im quite happy with the quality of the Elecrow PCB's and the price was great (10 boards for ~18 AUD).
« Last Edit: June 28, 2017, 11:12:45 am by djos »
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Offline bitseeker

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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #47 on: June 28, 2017, 05:45:58 pm »
That's a major milestone. Congrats, djos!
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Offline djos

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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #48 on: June 28, 2017, 08:59:13 pm »
That's a major milestone. Congrats, djos!

Cheers, gives me confidence that the PLUS to ISA adapter will work too. I'll actually have to start designing some more complex designs next.  :scared:
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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #49 on: July 01, 2017, 05:40:51 am »
And done!  8)

I've tested the first one electrically and everything lines up perfectly ... now I just need to make the other 4 that I have parts to make!  :-/O





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Offline djos

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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #50 on: July 03, 2017, 08:05:12 am »
Huzzah! My 1000 EX finally arrived and in fair condition, the keys need some retr0bright and the the case needs a clean which I knew, but the power cord has some damage at the plug and needs replacing.



If any US residents are visiting their local Home Despot this week, could they please grab a 3-pin mains plug for me? I'm more than happy to pay for USPS shipping, the cost of the plug and some extra coin for a 6-pack of beer?  8)

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Offline djos

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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #51 on: July 04, 2017, 05:24:51 am »
I managed to find a couple of fairly decent looking US NEMA 515 plugs in white online - this will allow me to get the old girl up and running again safely.  8)

http://www.leviton.com/en/products/3w101-wh



This morning before work I managed to pop the lid off and check out the 2 expansion cards - much to my delight, the memory expansion is fully populated so the machine has a full 640kb ram. The second card is a Tandy 1200 baud internal modem which will be replaced by a dual serial ISA card to drive a serial mouse.

« Last Edit: July 04, 2017, 05:28:32 am by djos »
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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #52 on: July 05, 2017, 02:22:47 am »
I got some this morning (before work) to test the physical aspects of my design (old one below).



I printed out the design and a few revisions as I found that it needed significant realignment of the header compared to the ISA Slot - the new version has the ISA slot pins offset by only about 2.3mm to the right as opposed to about 7.6mm. the PCB was also way too tall to fit in the top PLUS slot so I've shortened the PCB by quite bit.

Im pretty confident in the design now so I'll add back in the copper pour and I may (or may not) even modify the ISA slot part to remove the screw fixings that my ISA slots dont have.
« Last Edit: July 05, 2017, 02:25:13 am by djos »
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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #53 on: July 05, 2017, 10:20:07 am »
and Done! I just need to order the boards from Elecrow!  8)



EDIT: Order Placed.
« Last Edit: July 05, 2017, 11:10:16 am by djos »
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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #54 on: July 09, 2017, 09:04:31 am »
Argh, I realised today I've made a monumental stuff up! I followed the wrong diagram in the tech reference manual with for some odd reason shows the pinouts mirrored!  I found the schematics deeper in the tech reference manual diagrams that I believe are correct based on what I'd read previously. :palm:

So I've had to re-design the PCB's! I just hope my email to Elecrow gets to them in time to cancel my original design.  |O

anyhoo, here's the corrected version.






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Offline bitseeker

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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #55 on: July 09, 2017, 09:27:18 am »
At least you're not running a million of them! ;D
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Offline djos

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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #56 on: July 09, 2017, 09:51:38 am »
At least you're not running a million of them! ;D

Too true.  :-+
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Offline djos

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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #57 on: July 09, 2017, 11:14:43 am »
I decided to make use of the time and modified the ISA Slot to remove the mounting points and it makes the board shorter, thus cheaper to make too.





I'll get them made in Blue like the little FDD boards:



« Last Edit: July 10, 2017, 10:26:30 am by djos »
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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #58 on: July 10, 2017, 10:27:18 am »
So I was too slow in realising my mistake and I couldnt cancel my order with Elecrow - nvm, I expected to make some mistakes along the way.  :-/O Anyhoo, I've ordered the latest version.   8)

Amusingly, I may just be able to rescue version 1 of the PCB by installing the right angle header on the "wrong" side of the PCB... I need to test my theory tho...  :-DMM

PS. I tweaked the design slightly to improve component clearances and add the board version.

« Last Edit: July 10, 2017, 10:51:12 am by djos »
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Offline rorysl

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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #59 on: July 16, 2017, 03:50:09 pm »
Hey there! Been following this thread with interest. I have a Tandy 1000HX, very similar to the EX, and have been trying to figure out how to add more memory. Plus adapters and the Memory Expansion Card seem to be impossible to source though. If I understand this thread correctly (I'm a bit of a noob) you're designing your own Plus adapter for the Tandy Memory Expansion Card you already have?

If I were to buy or build a Plus card adapter are there any other memory cards that would work with my Tandy? Or do I have to have a Tandy brand one?

Any help or suggestions are greatly appreciated!!
 

Offline djos

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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #60 on: July 16, 2017, 08:53:36 pm »
Hey there! Been following this thread with interest. I have a Tandy 1000HX, very similar to the EX, and have been trying to figure out how to add more memory. Plus adapters and the Memory Expansion Card seem to be impossible to source though. If I understand this thread correctly (I'm a bit of a noob) you're designing your own Plus adapter for the Tandy Memory Expansion Card you already have?

If I were to buy or build a Plus card adapter are there any other memory cards that would work with my Tandy? Or do I have to have a Tandy brand one?

Any help or suggestions are greatly appreciated!!

G'day, unfortunately Tandy used their own custom DMA /memory controller chip on the EX / HX ram expansion board so cloning it isn't simple. The best thing to do is buy another EX / HX that has it and go from there.

Technically my adapter will work without the ram board but very few expansions will work without the DMA controller.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2017, 08:55:07 pm by djos »
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Offline rorysl

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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #61 on: July 16, 2017, 11:42:50 pm »
Ah! Drag. Ok then. Feel free to send me your Memory Expansion Board then. Lol  :-DD

In all seriousness though, thanks for the reply -- the HX/EX is a tough system to find peripherals for and information on!
« Last Edit: July 16, 2017, 11:45:44 pm by rorysl »
 

Offline djos

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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #62 on: July 17, 2017, 12:03:06 am »
Ah! Drag. Ok then. Feel free to send me your Memory Expansion Board then. Lol  :-DD

In all seriousness though, thanks for the reply -- the HX/EX is a tough system to find peripherals for and information on!

Lol, I'd luv to design a new Ram expansion board for the EX/HX machines but im an amature with very very poor understanding of digital logic design. :(

There's a ton of good info and documentation here including the reference manuals for the EX & HX:

http://www.oldskool.org/guides/tvdog/documents.html

and his FAQ is great too:

http://www.oldskool.org/guides/tvdog/1kfaq.html
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Offline rorysl

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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #63 on: July 17, 2017, 12:30:41 am »
Thanks for the links -- I think I've come across them before in my quest. For now, I'm going to concentrate on upgrading to a NEC V20 and maybe installing a SmartWatch chip and keep scanning eBay for memory expansion cards!
 

Offline djos

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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #64 on: July 17, 2017, 12:49:32 am »
Thanks for the links -- I think I've come across them before in my quest. For now, I'm going to concentrate on upgrading to a NEC V20 and maybe installing a SmartWatch chip and keep scanning eBay for memory expansion cards!

Cool, I've a got a couple of V20's lying around too and have also ordered a compatible smart watch chip from Asia.  8)
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Offline WastelandTek

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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #65 on: July 17, 2017, 01:04:54 am »
lol

the deeper I dig in this forum the more crazy I find

good crazy, mind you
I'm new here, but I tend to be pretty gregarious, so if I'm out of my lane please call me out.
 

Offline djos

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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #66 on: July 17, 2017, 01:35:47 am »
lol

the deeper I dig in this forum the more crazy I find

good crazy, mind you

hehe, yeah you do have to be a bit mad to enjoy playing with 20-30 year old computers.  :-DD
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Offline bitseeker

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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #67 on: July 17, 2017, 05:02:38 am »
I've got a CoCo 1 from 1981 that's been waiting for diagnosis of screen garbage when powered on. It was my first home computer, so one day I'll get it up and running again. I probably have the cassette tapes for it somewhere. I learned to program on a TI 99/4 (1979), but never got around to acquiring one.
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Offline djos

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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #68 on: July 17, 2017, 05:51:23 am »
I've got a CoCo 1 from 1981 that's been waiting for diagnosis of screen garbage when powered on. It was my first home computer, so one day I'll get it up and running again. I probably have the cassette tapes for it somewhere. I learned to program on a TI 99/4 (1979), but never got around to acquiring one.

Nice! I recall seeing the Coco 2's and 3's in my local Tandy Electronics in the 80's, great little machines for the time!

I learned to code in basic on an Amstrad CPC-6128 in primary school about 2 years before we got our Tandy 1000 EX, but I've never really felt the desire to get one. Prolly due to my distaste for the shockingly expensive 3" floppy disks I had to spend my lawn mowing money on so I could get a copy of my own programs.  :-DD
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Offline rorysl

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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #69 on: July 17, 2017, 03:32:59 pm »
Cool, I've a got a couple of V20's lying around too and have also ordered a compatible smart watch chip from Asia.  8)

Awesome -- would you mind sharing the model number or link? I need to order one myself that is EX/HX compatible.
 

Offline djos

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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #70 on: July 17, 2017, 08:55:03 pm »
Cool, I've a got a couple of V20's lying around too and have also ordered a compatible smart watch chip from Asia.  8)

Awesome -- would you mind sharing the model number or link? I need to order one myself that is EX/HX compatible.

I found some NEC V20 D70108HCZ-16 units on eBay, as long as they are D70108HCZ-8 or better they'll work fine.
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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #71 on: July 17, 2017, 09:36:41 pm »
Great! And the Smartwatch compatible chips were...?

Thanks again for all the help!
 

Offline djos

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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #72 on: July 17, 2017, 09:59:45 pm »
Great! And the Smartwatch compatible chips were...?

Thanks again for all the help!

These ones

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/182164983799
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Offline djos

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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #73 on: July 21, 2017, 08:59:20 am »
So my v7 design while it works (electrically if right angle header is mounted on the back side of the board).

V8 is more compact and cheaper to make as the PCB is shorter (there's no need for the mounting holes on either side).




« Last Edit: July 21, 2017, 09:10:38 am by djos »
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Offline DavinD

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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #74 on: July 24, 2017, 02:14:05 am »
So, the cable I made doesn't fit into the 1000ex.  It has the right number of pins, but the connector is too wide.  I would need to break the plastic edges off the connector on the expansion board, and I'm not sure I want to do that.  :(
 

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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #75 on: July 24, 2017, 02:30:05 am »
I've had better luck buying a whole ex or hx that has the memory expansion card.  They can be had for around $150 US.
 

Offline djos

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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #76 on: July 24, 2017, 03:24:47 am »
So, the cable I made doesn't fit into the 1000ex.  It has the right number of pins, but the connector is too wide.  I would need to break the plastic edges off the connector on the expansion board, and I'm not sure I want to do that.  :(

I found the same thing, it appears that the 2 cable restraint adds too much width - this is what I noticed after going back to look at the one I was copying.

https://youtu.be/3XTh4Q_hiHk?list=PLWCU3oJQLcJa1dxNBFWPKI7p6dYTdpebW

I didnt bother going any further as i'll be able to test the PCB version hopefully this week. Im hoping that v0.8 will fit in the top slot and still allow the expansion bay cover to close ... if not it's back to the drawing board. Mentally I've already come up with a solution but it'll be PITA as I it requires all new everything and I'll have about $100 of components lying around which I'll need to repurpose (I've got an idea for solution that would only waste the existing PCB's).
« Last Edit: July 24, 2017, 03:52:18 am by djos »
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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #77 on: July 24, 2017, 03:50:56 am »
Hey there! Been following this thread with interest. I have a Tandy 1000HX, very similar to the EX, and have been trying to figure out how to add more memory. Plus adapters and the Memory Expansion Card seem to be impossible to source though. If I understand this thread correctly (I'm a bit of a noob) you're designing your own Plus adapter for the Tandy Memory Expansion Card you already have?

If I were to buy or build a Plus card adapter are there any other memory cards that would work with my Tandy? Or do I have to have a Tandy brand one?

Any help or suggestions are greatly appreciated!!

Hey I've done some more research and it turns out you can add an XT-IDE card running in PIO/BIU mode to a Tandy 1000 without the DMA/Ram board and it will work just fine. A serial card will also work ok too.

Only issue then is the 256kb ram - you could add a lo-tech ram board but im honestly not sure how well that would work
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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #78 on: July 24, 2017, 03:51:59 am »
I've had better luck buying a whole ex or hx that has the memory expansion card.  They can be had for around $150 US.

yeah I found the same thing - my EX with Ram & Modem cost me ~$170 AUD landed.
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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #79 on: July 25, 2017, 02:20:40 am »
Sooo, I've hit a snag with the PLUS to ISA adapter - v0.8 it doesnt allow you to close the expansion bay cover!  :palm:

Anyhoo, not a big deal, I've come up with two new designs that im just finishing off.

PLUS to ISA adapter v1.0 is for those with Ram Expansions and requires one adapter per socket - it has a 62 pin header on the bottom and a right angle Edge Slot on the top for the lowest possible profile. (this design isnt 100% finished but is really close)




PLUS to ISA adapter v2.0 is for those without Ram Expansions and Im hoping will provide 3x ISA slots in a riser format - this image is just a teaser as the auto routing is rubbish and I havent had time to finish the design properly yet including slot spacings.

« Last Edit: July 25, 2017, 02:24:14 am by djos »
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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #80 on: July 25, 2017, 02:53:07 am »
Have you tested the IDE controller to see that it actually works?
 

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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #81 on: July 25, 2017, 03:16:54 am »
Have you tested the IDE controller to see that it actually works?

It works in my other old PC (K6-III+), but I havent tested it in my Tandy yet - just waiting on my replacement power plug.
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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #82 on: July 26, 2017, 12:02:35 am »
Since 1.0 and 2.0 are for different machine configurations, rather than one supplanting the other, you might want to differentiate them by name instead. For example, add "/R" or "/X" to the name of the 1.0 since it goes with the RAM Expansion or "/NR" for No RAM Expansion.

1.0 -> PLUS-ISA/R 1.0
2.0 -> PLUS-ISA 1.0

or

1.0 -> PLUS-ISA 1.0
2.0 -> PLUS-ISA/NR 1.0
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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #83 on: July 26, 2017, 12:33:35 am »
Since 1.0 and 2.0 are for different machine configurations, rather than one supplanting the other, you might want to differentiate them by name instead. For example, add "/R" or "/X" to the name of the 1.0 since it goes with the RAM Expansion or "/NR" for No RAM Expansion.

1.0 -> PLUS-ISA/R 1.0
2.0 -> PLUS-ISA 1.0

or

1.0 -> PLUS-ISA 1.0
2.0 -> PLUS-ISA/NR 1.0

Sensible idea mate, I'll likely do that once I have my act together.  ;D

Btw, regarding the PLUS-ISA adaptors for those with a RAM expansion, I had a bit of a brain wave last night, I think can create even more room in the vertical by putting large edge-connector style pads down on the top and bottom of the PCB (like you see on an actual ISA expansion card) and soldering the edge connector directly on to them so the expansion cards would be installed at the same height in the expansion bay as a PLUS card would be.

The reason I think I need to do this is there's just bugger all height and even a small thin card like the XT CF-IDE adaptor is going to have space issues.

sort of like this Amiga 500 side expansion:



I think I'll do a 5 board run and test my theory out before proceeding with selling boards to others - I dont want folks to buy something that only has the ability to install one ISA card via the lower expansion connector before running out of room.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2017, 12:35:37 am by djos »
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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #84 on: July 26, 2017, 12:56:46 am »
Yep, sounds good. Neat little family of projects you've got.
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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #85 on: July 26, 2017, 01:00:12 am »
Yep, sounds good. Neat little family of projects you've got.

Cheers, it's been a very interesting learning process so far and If others can benefit from my ideas too, I'll be even happier.
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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #86 on: July 26, 2017, 03:20:47 am »
Now just get it done so I can buy one or two.   ;D
 

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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #87 on: July 26, 2017, 04:33:08 am »
Now just get it done so I can buy one or two.   ;D

oh trust me Im trying - designing PCB's is knew to me so I was bound to make plenty of mistakes along the way.  :box:

 :D
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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #88 on: July 27, 2017, 02:40:21 am »
I finally got my replacement power plug last night for my EX!



and my Tandy 1000 EX lives!



and boots DOS 5.0 off my external floppy drive using my FDD Cable & Adapters! So they work which is awesome!



However I do have some issues with my 1000 EX that I need to sort out and didnt have the time to properly investigate last night. On top of that I think my 240-110v Step down transformer is too weak to properly power my 1000 - I've got another one in my HT that can provide more current and will hopefully solve the problem. I cant get it to power up with the PLUS Ram expansion in it, I don't even get fan spin in the power supply, which is why I suspect my step-down transformer being a bit gutless - it does this about 1 in 3 times without the expansion installed too.
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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #89 on: July 27, 2017, 10:09:42 pm »
Well chaps, I'm one very relieved EX owner right now! Last night I found the cause of my problems, I'd removed the stupid rubberised EMF shield and the mainboard must have been contacting the steel bottom shield (due to the shield adding a millimetre or so in space) - anyhoo, some thin metal washers placed under the mainboard solved the problem, my EX boots first time every time now and the RAM expansion works now too!







I just need to test my adapter design so I can proceed to the next step.  8)
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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #90 on: July 28, 2017, 10:23:49 pm »
Update: Im making fast progress now, I built a couple of POC adapters last night to make sure my design works ..... and it does! :D





Phwoar!!! PIO mode with BIU offload using the XTP (V20 Plus version) XT-IDE R566 Bios gets almost 1/2 a Megabyte a second, pretty darn impressive for a 7Mhz machine and a non-DMA HDD host adapter!



So next step is for me to finish the next revision of the PLUS-ISA adapter is this version works but it's too tall, you can put a card into the lower slot and close the lid, but not the top slot.

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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #91 on: July 28, 2017, 10:29:58 pm »
Wow, lots of good progress since I last saw this thread, djos. Way to go.
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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #92 on: July 28, 2017, 10:32:55 pm »
Wow, lots of good progress since I last saw this thread, djos. Way to go.

Cheers mate. Im happy to be finally getting somewhere!  :-+
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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #93 on: July 28, 2017, 10:33:59 pm »
Wow, how epic!! I have the memory expansion board in my EX (With the DMA controller) so now want to try this out too in non PIO mode. I'm lucky enough to have the Tandy serial card in mine for some hot "mouse" action. I was given the whole setup by someone here who was about to throw it away since the computer wasn't working.

Had you seen my video (posted just the other day) about using a floppy emulator to get 2.5mb floppy images on the Tandy 1000 EX? I used a $17 USD Gotek with 10 euro HxC firmware.  Also there is a video about using a 3.5" floppy internally on the EX. (Any 3.5" HD drive will do. The cable needs a small modification.)

I had to replace one IC on my EX to get it working and I Found a source for Tandy parts in the UK that pretty much has everything. They bought the entire stock of Tandy UK parts when they closed up shop in the 90s and seem to have everything on hand.

They likely have the DMA chip required to build a new memory expansion board with the DMA controller.

Autogard UK: http://www.autogarduk.com/
I was working with Martyn there, email address: SALES@autogard.freeserve.co.uk

Tandy 1000 EX floppy emulator video:
(other 1000 EX videos on my channel too like the repair video and CPU/floppy replacement video.)

 

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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #94 on: July 28, 2017, 10:36:39 pm »
I saw your video in my queue yesterday, but haven't watched it yet. Will check it out.
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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #95 on: July 28, 2017, 10:39:30 pm »
Wow, how epic!! I have the memory expansion board in my EX (With the DMA controller) so now want to try this out too in non PIO mode. I'm lucky enough to have the Tandy serial card in mine for some hot "mouse" action. I was given the whole setup by someone here who was about to throw it away since the computer wasn't working.

Had you seen my video (posted just the other day) about using a floppy emulator to get 2.5mb floppy images on the Tandy 1000 EX? I used a $17 USD Gotek with 10 euro HxC firmware.  Also there is a video about using a 3.5" floppy internally on the EX. (Any 3.5" HD drive will do. The cable needs a small modification.)

I had to replace one IC on my EX to get it working and I Found a source for Tandy parts in the UK that pretty much has everything. They bought the entire stock of Tandy UK parts when they closed up shop in the 90s and seem to have everything on hand.

They likely have the DMA chip required to build a new memory expansion board with the DMA controller.

Autogard UK: http://www.autogarduk.com/
I was working with Martyn there, email address: SALES@autogard.freeserve.co.uk

Tandy 1000 EX floppy emulator video:
(other 1000 EX videos on my channel too like the repair video and CPU/floppy replacement video.)

OMG, this is cool, I've watched your video's on fixing up your via the new chip you got from Autogard (I have the same revision with the passive mods) and then converting it to use a 3.5" floppy internally. They were great videos and I subscribed to your channel as a result!

I havent seen your latest one tho, been too busy watching American God's on my train commute this week! :D

PS, Im familiar with the Goteks, I frequently build them for my Amiga buddies by adding the required headers and re-flashing them with HxC Amiga FW. I have no plans to put one in my EX tho, as long as I have a CF HDD in mine I can transfer files easily that way.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2017, 10:41:49 pm by djos »
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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #96 on: July 28, 2017, 10:47:50 pm »
@Adrianblack

Lol, just started watching your latest video and you are using the HxC gotek firmware too - it works exceptionally well in Amiga's also.

PS, the Red LED shows when the HxC firmware is doing low level access eg during FW upgrades from USB if you are upgrading an already flashed unit.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2017, 10:52:14 pm by djos »
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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #97 on: July 28, 2017, 11:35:35 pm »
Put me on the list to buy one of your adapters when it is time. I bought some stuff to start trying to make my own but too much retrocomputing stuff piled up ahead of it!

I had a couple 8-bit ISA cards I was thinking of trying. I wonder if we could build a little external case to hold a couple ISA cards with a ribbon cable too. That would be neat.

XT-IDE, Network card, maybe a normal Serial/Parallel card. I don't have the Tandy funky cable to hook my Tandy printer up.
 

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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #98 on: July 28, 2017, 11:48:24 pm »
Put me on the list to buy one of your adapters when it is time. I bought some stuff to start trying to make my own but too much retrocomputing stuff piled up ahead of it!

I had a couple 8-bit ISA cards I was thinking of trying. I wonder if we could build a little external case to hold a couple ISA cards with a ribbon cable too. That would be neat.

XT-IDE, Network card, maybe a normal Serial/Parallel card. I don't have the Tandy funky cable to hook my Tandy printer up.

Will do.

Yeah I'm going to use mine for a serial card to drive a mouse and my c.f. XT IDE board. I'm tossing up between using a c.f. Card or a microdrive as I have several of the 4 GB units lying around and they are surprisingly fast. In my Amiga the microdrive's also have lower CPU overheads for some reason.

Others have made similar suggestions, in theory it seems possible but I wonder how sensitive the ISA bus is to "trace length "? That would be the limiting factor I think.

I've got a design in my head for Tandy edge connector to DB25 adaptor but I made a replacement disk drive adapter cable and it was rather easy.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2017, 11:53:10 pm by djos »
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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #99 on: July 28, 2017, 11:51:01 pm »
Put buffer/driver ICs to drive the extension?
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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #100 on: July 28, 2017, 11:52:18 pm »
Put buffer/driver ICs to drive the extension?

That would likely do it, a bit beyond my current digital logic knowledge tho.
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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #101 on: July 28, 2017, 11:53:46 pm »
That's OK. Add it to the "things to explore" list. ^-^
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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #102 on: July 28, 2017, 11:59:03 pm »
That's OK. Add it to the "things to explore" list. ^-^

Indeed.  :-DMM
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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #103 on: July 29, 2017, 08:47:49 am »
Had you seen my video (posted just the other day) about using a floppy emulator to get 2.5mb floppy images on the Tandy 1000 EX? I used a $17 USD Gotek with 10 euro HxC firmware.  Also there is a video about using a 3.5" floppy internally on the EX. (Any 3.5" HD drive will do. The cable needs a small modification.)

That's a neat emulator. The HxC firmware says it supports over 8000 1.44MB images. With the Gotek emulator's 3-digit display, can you go past 999 (i.e., does it roll over)?
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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #104 on: July 29, 2017, 11:14:10 am »
Have you tested the IDE controller to see that it actually works?

So as per my more recent posts, the answer to this question is yes - I've got it working in my EX very nicely using c800h for the bios address and the XTP R566 Bios version for V20's and up (the stock XT bios also works).
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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #105 on: July 30, 2017, 04:54:55 am »
So I've had a fairly productive afternoon and completed both the Tandy 1000 Printer Adapter and PLUS-ISA/R Adapter v1.1:

Printer Adapter - Front:


Printer Adapter - Rear:


PLUS-ISA/R Adapter v1.1 - Front:


PLUS-ISA/R Adapter v1.1 - Rear:


I guess I just need to order some parts now! :D
« Last Edit: July 30, 2017, 05:40:11 am by djos »
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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #106 on: July 31, 2017, 02:17:24 am »
I've had to make a minor change to the PLUS-ISA/R Adapter v1.1, I realised the solder pads where too close to the PLUS Socket (which is almost 2mm wider than it needs to be) by about 1.9mm and have tweaked it accordingly.



I've now placed an order for the Tandy Printer Adapter and PLUS-ISA/R Adapter v1.1 PCB's and the Tandy Printer Adapter components (34p edge connectors & DB25 Female Sockets).
« Last Edit: July 31, 2017, 02:33:06 am by djos »
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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #107 on: July 31, 2017, 05:47:16 pm »
That's awesome!  I saw Adrian's video as well and I ordered the firmware to flash my Gotek.  These are going to be some souped up Tandys.  I want to send you money.
 

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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #108 on: July 31, 2017, 05:56:15 pm »
If the IDE controller had a right-angle connector, things would probably fit better.
 

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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #109 on: July 31, 2017, 08:35:54 pm »
If the IDE controller had a right-angle connector, things would probably fit better.

Yeah I've been thinking I might just make a right angle IDE PCB to solve that problem and allow the c.f. Card to be accessed from the rear of the case.  :-/O
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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #110 on: July 31, 2017, 08:37:16 pm »
I'm ok with the way it is, though.  I'm not too worried about the case closing.
 

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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #111 on: July 31, 2017, 08:38:58 pm »
That's awesome!  I saw Adrian's video as well and I ordered the firmware to flash my Gotek.  These are going to be some souped up Tandys.  I want to send you money.

My initial run of the ISA adapters will be about 20 units so I should be able to cover the current expressed demand fairly easily.  8)
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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #112 on: July 31, 2017, 09:11:59 pm »
I'm ok with the way it is, though.  I'm not too worried about the case closing.

Sorry but my OCD won't let me sell folks something I'm not happy with, the new PCB's will arrive in less than 2 weeks and I already have all the required connectors to build them.

So if you can please be patient with me I think it'll be worth the wait.  8)
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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #113 on: July 31, 2017, 09:36:43 pm »
I'm ok with the way it is, though.  I'm not too worried about the case closing.

Sorry but my OCD won't let me sell folks something I'm not happy with, the new PCB's will arrive in less than 2 weeks and I already have all the required connectors to build them.

So if you can please be patient with me I think it'll be worth the wait.  8)

No worries.  Thanks for figuring this out!
 

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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #114 on: July 31, 2017, 10:03:15 pm »

No worries.  Thanks for figuring this out!

My pleasure, it's been a fun learning experience.  :-DMM
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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #115 on: August 02, 2017, 03:25:22 am »
For those without Ram expansions in their EX / HX machines:

I had a chance to do some testing last night, I pulled my ram expansion out and installed my Lo-tech Compact Flash IDE board directly into the main-board .... and it worked great with no issues at all. The same went for a dual port ISA serial card, it worked fine too. My EX was definitely not as responsive but im not sure how much of that was caused by only having 256k of ram.

Anyhoo, I'll proceed with finishing the design of what I'm now calling the "PLUS-ISA Riser Card v1.0".  8)
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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #116 on: August 04, 2017, 09:11:36 pm »
For those without Ram expansions in their EX / HX machines:

I had a chance to do some testing last night, I pulled my ram expansion out and installed my Lo-tech Compact Flash IDE board directly into the main-board .... and it worked great with no issues at all. The same went for a dual port ISA serial card, it worked fine too. My EX was definitely not as responsive but im not sure how much of that was caused by only having 256k of ram.

Anyhoo, I'll proceed with finishing the design of what I'm now calling the "PLUS-ISA Riser Card v1.0".  8)

That's awesome.  I have the memory expansion, but this will be helpful for those that don't.
 

Offline djos

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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #117 on: August 05, 2017, 09:19:12 am »
Sooo, I think the Tandy 1000 PLUS-ISA Riser v1.0 board is done - space is a real issue so I've made the following compromises:

1/ There is less space between the bottom slot and the middle slot - the idea is that a very slim card like a Lo-tech ISA CompactFlash IDE would go on the bottom.

2/ The middle slot would be ideal for a slightly thicker card like an original ISA Serial Card

3/ the top slot would be ideal for a slim card like a lo-tech ram card that doesn't require rear access.







I'm happy to entertain others opinions on this design as I wont be needing one myself.
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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #118 on: August 05, 2017, 08:43:07 pm »
Congrats djos. Is this your first PCB-based "product"?
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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #119 on: August 05, 2017, 10:04:37 pm »
Congrats djos. Is this your first PCB-based "product"?

Thanks Mate.

Technically my Tandy 1000 EX /HX Floppy cable replacement is the first PCB based product I've actually sold (shipped about 3 so far):



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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #120 on: August 05, 2017, 10:34:36 pm »
Oh, didn't know you had already shipped them. So, these are the first and second, then. :)
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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #121 on: August 05, 2017, 10:41:15 pm »
Oh, didn't know you had already shipped them. So, these are the first and second, then. :)

Yep, and some folks asked me to make a Parallel port adapter too as most Tandy 1000's used an edge connector for that too. So that's about 4 products I think.  :o



PS, most of the Tandy fan boys I've met live over here.
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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #122 on: August 05, 2017, 10:45:19 pm »
Alas, the only Tandy I currently have is my CoCo1. But, I'm enjoying your projects.
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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #123 on: August 05, 2017, 11:47:19 pm »
Alas, the only Tandy I currently have is my CoCo1. But, I'm enjoying your projects.

Great little machine, I've thought about collecting a CoCo3 but every time I collect something I didnt own back in the day, it gets neglected or upgraded and sold off.
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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #124 on: August 06, 2017, 07:00:10 am »
Yeah, it's not quite the same.
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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #125 on: August 11, 2017, 03:17:57 pm »
There's a new 1000ex on Ebay with the memory expansion and a modem if anyone's looking.
 

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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #126 on: August 11, 2017, 03:23:08 pm »
Tell me more about the smart watch clock chip.  I've been thinking about adding one to mine.
 

Offline djos

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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #127 on: August 11, 2017, 11:08:41 pm »
Tell me more about the smart watch clock chip.  I've been thinking about adding one to mine.

They fit in the HX models just fine but they don't fit in EX's because they are too tall and the Rom is right next to the expansion slot.

They are like a real-time clock but aren't recognised as such, you run the smart watch utility in your autoexec file every boot up to set the computers time and date from it. It goes under a boot rom and uses some clever tricks to work without interfering with the Rom itself. They have small coin batteries embedded in them which hold the time and date.

The batteries are mostly dead now which is another issue.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2017, 02:15:54 am by djos »
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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #128 on: August 18, 2017, 05:48:32 pm »
How are things going with this?
 

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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #129 on: August 18, 2017, 10:30:08 pm »
How are things going with this?

Just waiting for the PLUS-ISA/R PCB's to arrive from Elecrow - they were sent on the 5th so should arrive any day.

I haven't had any feedback on the "PLUS-ISA Riser Board" for machines without the Ram expansion so I've put that on ice for now. Im also thinking of building 512kb of ram into it so it only needs 2 ISA Slots - I think I've worked out how to do this but havent had the time to update my design.

I've also been designing a Dallas DS1216 clock board for the 1000 EX machines which is compatible with Tandy's "SmartWatch" software. Due to the location of the Bios ROM in the 1000 EX, the Tandy SmartWatch doesnt fit as it blocks the ram expansion board from being properly inserted. Also the SmartWatch batteries are all dying and my design uses replaceable CR1632 Coin-Cells. I'm just waiting on a few parts to test my prototype's physical design before ordering PCB's.
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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #130 on: August 19, 2017, 12:23:38 am »
LOL, went to the post office this morning and my PCB's were there! Excellent!!  :-+



and mechanically everything fits as it should!  8)

Tandy 1000 PLUS-ISA/R Adapter:


Tandy 1000 Printer Port Adapter:


Guess I need to do some soldering this weekend!  :-/O
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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #131 on: August 19, 2017, 07:50:18 am »
Yeah, looks like you've got quite a bit of soldering ahead. :-/O

(Hmm, in addition to a happy oscilloscope smiley, we need a soldering one, too.)
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Offline djos

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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #132 on: August 19, 2017, 10:16:48 am »
Yeah, looks like you've got quite a bit of soldering ahead. :-/O

(Hmm, in addition to a happy oscilloscope smiley, we need a soldering one, too.)

Indeed, I built a few untis this arvo to test and the PLUS-ISA/R Adapters work great - I can finally close the lid on my 1000 EX!  8)

My printer adapter has an issues tho, I must have crossed the streams somehow! :(

Adapters:


Fits perfectly:




Of course ISA adapters have the connectors on the top of the boards and PLUS boards on the bottom of the board - no big deal tho if you put the card with ports in the lower slot.



looks much better now with the lid on.

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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #133 on: August 19, 2017, 02:12:00 pm »
This is awesome!  Can't wait.
 

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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #134 on: August 19, 2017, 05:53:48 pm »
That ISA adapter turned out great, djos! Now your EX won't feel drafty anymore. ;D
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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #135 on: August 19, 2017, 10:01:45 pm »
This is awesome!  Can't wait.

If you want them faster I can just send you the parts? They are dead easy to build - price is the same because I'm mainly doing this for fun and not covering my time etc.

a set of 2 is $25 USD + $5 USD shipping (inc paypal fees)
or if you only need 1, they are $12.50 USD + $5 USD shipping (inc paypal fees)

Cheers Derek
« Last Edit: August 19, 2017, 10:06:45 pm by djos »
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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #136 on: August 19, 2017, 10:03:43 pm »
That ISA adapter turned out great, djos! Now your EX won't feel drafty anymore. ;D

Cheers, took me quite a few iterations to get it right, but now im really happy with it.  8)
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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #137 on: August 20, 2017, 08:29:05 pm »
Adrian (If you're still watching this thread) or others...

Does anyone have a DOS 6.22 DD image?  I only have a 1.44 one.
 

Offline bitseeker

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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #138 on: August 20, 2017, 09:49:50 pm »
Davin, you can download 6.22 (as well as other oldies, but goodies) from WinWorld. The images they have for 6.22 are the upgrade version. So, if you want to install it to a hard drive, boot the floppy, then hit F3 to exit setup before you get to the upgrade warning. Fdisk, format, and sys to C: to make it bootable, then run the 6.22 install again to complete the installation.
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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #139 on: August 20, 2017, 10:59:13 pm »
Davin, you can download 6.22 (as well as other oldies, but goodies) from WinWorld. The images they have for 6.22 are the upgrade version. So, if you want to install it to a hard drive, boot the floppy, then hit F3 to exit setup before you get to the upgrade warning. Fdisk, format, and sys to C: to make it bootable, then run the 6.22 install again to complete the installation.

The issue is I needed a 720k images as the Tandy can't read a 1.44HD image.  I ended up using my old 386 and putting a physical 720k disk in it and sysed it.  Then I booted from my external drive and sysed a blank image.  I think I'm good now.  I have the real dos 6.22 images from my MSDN subscription.
 

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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #140 on: August 21, 2017, 07:19:19 am »
Apparently PC DOS 7.1 is the best "new" dos version for Tandy 1000's according to the below faq.

http://www.oldskool.org/guides/tvdog/1kfaq.html#III.A.2

I'm running MS DOS 5 atm and have the issue with my external 720k drive wanting to format disks as 360k- I could solve it with drivparm but if PC DOS 7.1 solves this issue I'll likely go with that - it has fat 32 support built in so I can format my microdrive as a single 4 GB partition.

Otherwise it recommends MS DOS 3.30.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2017, 07:22:15 am by djos »
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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #141 on: August 21, 2017, 11:19:50 am »
PS. IBM PC DOS 7.1 can be found here:

https://forums.virtualbox.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=80531#p382098

EDIT: updated the link to go direct to the Streamlined process.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2017, 12:59:21 am by djos »
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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #142 on: August 21, 2017, 09:03:58 pm »
I'm trying to use 2.5mb floppy images on my Gotek (HXC) drive like Adrian did.  The original Tandy DOS 2.1 doesn't work.  6.22 mostly works.  I'm still having an issue copying come bigger files where I get an ARF error.  I'll have to try out IBM PC DOS.
 

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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #143 on: August 21, 2017, 09:37:52 pm »
I'm trying to use 2.5mb floppy images on my Gotek (HXC) drive like Adrian did.  The original Tandy DOS 2.1 doesn't work.  6.22 mostly works.  I'm still having an issue copying come bigger files where I get an ARF error.  I'll have to try out IBM PC DOS.

You could also try using the following in the config.sys file:

DRIVPARM=/D:0 /F:2 /H:2 /S:9 /T:80

(For drive A: - drive B: is /D:1, etc.)

and bump up the number of tracks or sectors DOS supports to match the max number supported by the Gotek 2.5mb format.
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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #144 on: August 21, 2017, 10:44:06 pm »
The issue is I needed a 720k images as the Tandy can't read a 1.44HD image.  I ended up using my old 386 and putting a physical 720k disk in it and sysed it.  Then I booted from my external drive and sysed a blank image.  I think I'm good now.  I have the real dos 6.22 images from my MSDN subscription.

Oh, 720K! For some reason, I thought you were looking for a 5.25" image (older Tandy). Glad you found a way to make it work.
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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #146 on: August 22, 2017, 09:23:35 pm »
The impossible often has a kind of integrity which the merely improbable lacks.

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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #148 on: August 24, 2017, 03:42:22 am »
There's a new 1000EX on Ebay with the memory card.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Tandy-1000-PC-EX-and-Extra-Drive-/172829026083?hash=item283d69a723:g:9-YAAOSwU2VZmc80

That drive looks like a tape backup.

and it's SCSI too so pretty useless with a 1000 EX that has no HDD to backup and no SCSI controller!
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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #149 on: August 24, 2017, 06:43:41 pm »
But with a bus expander, that could be remedied. You want to back up your floppy collection, right? ;D
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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #150 on: August 24, 2017, 08:57:18 pm »
But with a bus expander, that could be remedied. You want to back up your floppy collection, right? ;D

 :-DD
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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #151 on: August 25, 2017, 06:17:55 am »
Yeah, to think my entire collection of hundreds of 5.25" floppies would barely put a dent in a freebie thumb drive these days. I wonder how much longer those disks will maintain a readable signal.
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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #152 on: August 25, 2017, 06:49:15 am »
Yeah, to think my entire collection of hundreds of 5.25" floppies would barely put a dent in a freebie thumb drive these days. I wonder how much longer those disks will maintain a readable signal.

I've got close to 10 GB of c64 disk images! Considering they are 170 kb each....  :-DD

The old discs last surprisingly well if they've been stored in a reasonable location.
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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #153 on: August 25, 2017, 10:44:48 pm »
It's been a few years since I fired up my old Atari 8-bit machines, but some of those floppies are from the late 80's and still worked fine. Good longevity, indeed.
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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #154 on: August 25, 2017, 11:32:03 pm »
It's been a few years since I fired up my old Atari 8-bit machines, but some of those floppies are from the late 80's and still worked fine. Good longevity, indeed.

Good stuff, just make sure you clean the drive heads with IPA frequently as the discs can get gunk building up on them.
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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #155 on: August 25, 2017, 11:33:47 pm »
It's been a busy week building parts - I've build and sent the following orders for EEVB Forum members:

DavinD ISA/r Adapter x1
EMan - ISA /r adaptors x2

plus I've shipped at least 9 adapters and all 4 of the spare Floppy adapters I built to members of the VCF forum.   8)
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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #156 on: August 26, 2017, 12:39:03 am »
Very cool. So, what's next?
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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #157 on: August 26, 2017, 01:37:24 am »
Very cool. So, what's next?

I'm still designing a clock board for the EX and trying to work out how to make a riser board with ram and maybe DMA on it. I haven't had much time to work on either as I've been busy building the PLUS-ISA/R boards.
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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #158 on: August 26, 2017, 03:05:46 am »
No worries, was just curious.
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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #159 on: August 26, 2017, 03:56:15 am »
No worries, was just curious.

Curiosity is always welcome.  :-+

The clock board is done electronically but I'm still sorting the physical properties out.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2017, 03:57:50 am by djos »
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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #160 on: September 09, 2017, 03:58:46 am »
Well I'm a happy bunny, got PCB v2 of the Printer Adapter yesterday and now that I have the wiring around the right way (not mirrored) it actually works!  :-+

https://youtu.be/rYrEzZlc1iI

Tandy 1000 Printer Port Adapter

Is $21 USD + $5 USD shipping (inc paypal fees)

AFAIK, these are not compatible with the original 1000, A, and HD models.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2017, 04:02:57 am by djos »
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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #161 on: September 09, 2017, 07:50:01 pm »
Very cool! Congrats! :-+
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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #162 on: September 09, 2017, 09:38:59 pm »
Very cool! Congrats! :-+

Thanks mate.

I did a quick video tour of my Tandy, hopefully it's not too painful to watch.

https://youtu.be/St8Nx7iHA2o
« Last Edit: September 10, 2017, 09:52:26 pm by djos »
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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #163 on: September 09, 2017, 11:04:31 pm »
Thanks for the tour. The video sync relative to the screen was pretty good. The video looked fine considering you were holding a phone. The only problem was the audio level dropped significantly after the bit where you showed the printer port and floppy adapters.

Now, I want to go play all the Space Quest games. It's been many years.
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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #164 on: September 09, 2017, 11:13:12 pm »
Thanks for the tour. The video sync relative to the screen was pretty good. The video looked fine considering you were holding a phone. The only problem was the audio level dropped significantly after the bit where you showed the printer port and floppy adapters.

Now, I want to go play all the Space Quest games. It's been many years.

No worries.

Bugger I thought I'd audio level'd the entire video, I must have only done bits.  :palm:

next time I'll use my Camera on a tri-pod, that should be much easier.

The Space Quest series is just brilliant, I never get sick of it.  :-+
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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #165 on: September 10, 2017, 05:25:13 am »
My brother and I lost many hours of sleep thanks to SQ. Good times.
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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #166 on: September 10, 2017, 05:45:26 am »
My brother and I lost many hours of sleep thanks to SQ. Good times.

Lol same here, my sister and I put many many hours into all the sierra quest games.  ;D
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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #167 on: September 10, 2017, 09:53:42 pm »
The only problem was the audio level dropped significantly after the bit where you showed the printer port and floppy adapters.


Just updated the video, hopefully the low sound issue is better now.
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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #168 on: September 10, 2017, 10:24:44 pm »
Yes, audio is much better now.  :-+
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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #169 on: September 10, 2017, 11:06:49 pm »
Yes, audio is much better now.  :-+

Awesome, I've never used iMovie before so didn't realise the audio adjust isn't global, it's per segment which does make sense.
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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #170 on: September 14, 2017, 10:12:16 pm »
Love the video.  Got my boards a couple of days ago and they work great!  I do hope you get the clock chip going at some point.  My favorite game on the Tandy was Starflight.  Spent many hours on that one.
 
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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #171 on: September 14, 2017, 10:22:05 pm »
Love the video.  Got my boards a couple of days ago and they work great!  I do hope you get the clock chip going at some point.  My favorite game on the Tandy was Starflight.  Spent many hours on that one.

Fantastic!

The PCB's have shipped and I have all the parts for the smart watch design so we'll find out if my first active PCB works soon enough. :)
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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #172 on: September 14, 2017, 10:40:54 pm »
I got a Gotek Drive yesterday and promptly flashed it with the HxC Firmware after soldering on the required header pins. I'm planning to replace the segment display with a mini OLED display - for now tho it fits great into my empty Tandy external drive shell. That said I do need to replace the the Floppy power lead on the PCB with a longer one.

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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #173 on: September 14, 2017, 10:46:49 pm »
I ended up ruining 2 of the Gotek drives trying to solder and flash myself.  I think my iron is just old and dirty (or I just suck at soldering).  :)

So, off to ebay I went to buy one already flashed.  lol

I installed mine in place of the internal floppy.

I have a second 1000ex that I'm leaving bone stock.
 

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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #174 on: September 14, 2017, 10:52:26 pm »
I ended up ruining 2 of the Gotek drives trying to solder and flash myself.  I think my iron is just old and dirty (or I just suck at soldering).  :)

So, off to ebay I went to buy one already flashed.  lol

I installed mine in place of the internal floppy.

I have a second 1000ex that I'm leaving bone stock.

Lol, I just hold the pins in place with Kapton tape while soldering and that makes it easy. I've got a hobbiest grade station which is actually pretty darn good considering how affordable it was ($250 AUD including desoldering station).

Because the Tandy can switch Floppy boot drives so easily I'm not going to bother replacing the internal drive, I did consider a 3.5" transplant tho.
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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #175 on: September 19, 2017, 05:02:34 am »
Question for you, Did you have to do anything special to get your IDE-CF adapter to power from the bus?  I can get the lights to come on, but it always hangs when the bios says Booting C.  It works fine when I connect the power cable.  I tried all combination of the 3 jumpers.  Not a huge deal as I just used a splitter, but it would be nice to have one less cable in there.

Also, if someone comes across one of the Tandy monitor stands that holds the monitor over the top of the PC, let me know.  I'm looking for one.
 

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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #176 on: September 19, 2017, 06:23:25 am »
Question for you, Did you have to do anything special to get your IDE-CF adapter to power from the bus?  I can get the lights to come on, but it always hangs when the bios says Booting C.  It works fine when I connect the power cable.  I tried all combination of the 3 jumpers.  Not a huge deal as I just used a splitter, but it would be nice to have one less cable in there.


You need to supply 5v to Pin 20 (aka the "Key Pin") and the both your IDE cable (if using one) and adapter need to support power via pin 20. UDMA IDE cables dont have the Pin 20 connected (the ones with a blue IDE connector).

Some of the adapters out there are just crap and dont properly implement IDE - see the post below for pics of the ones that dont work and the ones that do:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/vintage-computing/tandy-1000-exhx-plus-expansion-to-8-bit-isa-riser-card-project/msg1233022/#msg1233022

and here is a link to eBay for the working CF adapters which also support 5v on pin 20:

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Compact-Flash-CF-To-3-5-40Pin-IDE-Bootable-Drive-Adapters-Converter-Card-/182734576729?epid=2208588899&hash=item2a8bd45c59:g:UaMAAOSw~iRZodiz

Btw, some flash cards are a bit hit and miss too - I actually use a Seagate ST1 4GB CF Microdrive which has perfect compatibility due to being a real hard drive in miniature form. In terms of Flash cards, I found the most compatible are the Transcend "Industrial" CF cards.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2017, 06:32:58 am by djos »
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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #177 on: September 19, 2017, 06:31:13 am »
Also, if someone comes across one of the Tandy monitor stands that holds the monitor over the top of the PC, let me know.  I'm looking for one.

I was really lucky, I found one on eBay and it cost me almost as much as my EX did (Shipping from the USA was the killer).

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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #178 on: October 14, 2017, 06:54:13 am »
So I finally got some time to myself if the Workshop and built one of my SmartWatch+ boards up.

Report:
Physical Fit = Perfect!
Tandy BIOS still works = YES!
SmartWatch chip sets the time = FAIL! Utility Crashes the machine. (utility works ok with OEM SmartWatch)

I need to spend some time with my DMM and the schematic to see if I've fk'd up something - although it could be a dud Dallas DS1216 too. I'll remove the current one and put a socket in for testing.







« Last Edit: October 14, 2017, 06:58:09 am by djos »
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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #179 on: October 21, 2017, 08:09:18 am »
So I found an error in my clock boards power setup - it supports 2 batteries and I wired them up wrong and as a result I think I blew all my Dallas DS1216's up before I twigged to my error. So I've ordered some more and I'll see what happens then.   :palm:

In the mean time, some OLED's screens arrived and my Gotek HxC got a very nice little upgrade today!  :-+

Before:


Testing:


After:
« Last Edit: October 21, 2017, 08:12:00 am by djos »
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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #180 on: October 21, 2017, 07:15:48 pm »
That's a snazzy upgrade. Now, all it needs is a mode with large track number display — for when you get older. ;D
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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #181 on: October 21, 2017, 08:34:36 pm »
That's a snazzy upgrade. Now, all it needs is a mode with large track number display — for when you get older. ;D

Yeah I can crank up the display settings, just haven't worked out how yet. The firmware sports a bunch of different resolutions and you can configure the number if display lines too.
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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #182 on: October 21, 2017, 09:17:11 pm »
Neat!
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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #183 on: October 28, 2017, 10:14:20 pm »
I thought I'd try an experiment using my Tandy 1000 EX, with one of my Edge-to-DB25 Printer adapters, to see if it worked with a Covox Speech Thing clone! :D

https://youtu.be/Q0OfISezrsU
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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #184 on: November 03, 2017, 07:06:01 am »
Tandy 1000 EX SmartWatch+ Project Update:

So after quite a bit of trouble shooting, I realised I had made several fundamental mistakes.

1/ the DS1216 needs to intercept the data lines etc from the BIOS ROM, not just need to be connected to them.  :palm:
&
2/ My dyslexia had kicked in and I'd confused some of the pins due to my upside-down design and a couple of traces where simply connected up wrong.  |O

anywhoo, I've ordered some V1.0 editions from elecrow to test.  :-DMM

« Last Edit: November 03, 2017, 07:13:25 am by djos »
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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #185 on: November 03, 2017, 09:07:59 pm »
2/ My dyslexia had kicked in and I'd confused some of the pins due to my upside-down design and a couple of traces where simply connected up wrong.  |O

Nah, I think that's just the southern hemisphere abnormality effect. :-DD

(You know I had to ;D)
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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #186 on: November 03, 2017, 09:51:18 pm »
2/ My dyslexia had kicked in and I'd confused some of the pins due to my upside-down design and a couple of traces where simply connected up wrong.  |O

Nah, I think that's just the southern hemisphere abnormality effect. :-DD

(You know I had to ;D)

 :-DD yep, happens all the time, I'm just lucky my pet kangaroo wasn't around during the design phase or I'd prolly have a broken MacBook too.  :palm:

 :-DD
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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #187 on: November 03, 2017, 11:03:21 pm »
Yeah, for sure.
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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #188 on: December 14, 2017, 10:32:28 am »
Hi all, I promised the community that once I'd made the 50 (yep 50!) Tandy 1000 EX / HX PLUS-ISA/R v1.1 adapters I needed to use up the parts I had to bulk buy, (to keep costs down), I'd release the Gerber files with no strings attached.

So here they are ... I'm making no demands on how you use them, they are now 100% Public Domain.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/3mu8zdts7im36rc/Tandy%201000%20ISA-PLUS%3AR%20v1.1.zip?dl=0



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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #189 on: January 14, 2018, 12:48:55 am »
I've made another video showing a the new OPL2LPT Parallel port Adlib Card and a Covox Speech thing clone working on my 1000 EX, I hope you enjoy it.

https://youtu.be/jVgY7fRG0Vs
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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #190 on: January 14, 2018, 05:53:42 am »
Yeah, the OPL2 has a lot more punch than the Tandy sound, but what the soundtrack is really missing for the Tandy is a percussion track.

Is the OPL2LPT that you assembled the same kit that the 8-bit Guy reviewed?
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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #191 on: January 14, 2018, 06:20:58 am »
Yeah, the OPL2 has a lot more punch than the Tandy sound, but what the soundtrack is really missing for the Tandy is a percussion track.

Is the OPL2LPT that you assembled the same kit that the 8-bit Guy reviewed?

Quite true mate, although the OPL2 has the advantage of being at least a few years newer than the Ti chip used by Tandy and the PCjr.

It's the very same kit, I ordered mine from Europe tho as I didn't realise 8 bit guy was selling them until later.
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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #192 on: January 25, 2018, 05:50:04 pm »
Any update on the smart watch board?  My plus adapter is still working great.

Also, here's one for you guys.  I'm looking to do a pretty crazy project with a 1000HX.  I'd like to get an adapter to use the internal keyboard hooked to a motherboard with a PS/2 port.  I'm pretty sure the protocols are different, so some kind of micro controller would be involved.
 

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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #193 on: January 25, 2018, 09:37:29 pm »
Any update on the smart watch board?  My plus adapter is still working great.

Also, here's one for you guys.  I'm looking to do a pretty crazy project with a 1000HX.  I'd like to get an adapter to use the internal keyboard hooked to a motherboard with a PS/2 port.  I'm pretty sure the protocols are different, so some kind of micro controller would be involved.

I've been busy with other projects but I'm going to redesign it it. I wss trying to take shortcuts and design it in the PCB designer and as a result I keep making silly mistakes. I'm gong to take the time to design the schematic properly first.

Nice, that should be an interesting project.
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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #194 on: January 25, 2018, 09:59:12 pm »
Lol, yeah clone 386 boards are hardly collectable.  ;D

You might be surprised. I would expect to get at least $50 for one of those boards, how often do you see them for sale? Most of them got thrown out, the few that remain tend to command higher prices once you find someone who needs them.

I remember when people were buying complete Apple II's for a few bucks each at thrift stores to harvest parts. Now a working one fetches a couple hundred bucks.
 

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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #195 on: January 26, 2018, 12:11:35 am »
Lol, yeah clone 386 boards are hardly collectable.  ;D

You might be surprised. I would expect to get at least $50 for one of those boards, how often do you see them for sale? Most of them got thrown out, the few that remain tend to command higher prices once you find someone who needs them.

I remember when people were buying complete Apple II's for a few bucks each at thrift stores to harvest parts. Now a working one fetches a couple hundred bucks.

Good point, I never did harvest it for parts so i might see if I can repair the damage and get it going.
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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #196 on: January 28, 2018, 07:15:46 am »
Turns out the keyboard itself in the 1000HX I'm using for this new project doesn't have a controller built in.  Looks like pressing a key simply completes a circuit between two pins on the ribbon cables.  I should be able to do something with an arduino to make it work.  Anyone know what kind of connectors are on the motherboard for the ribbon cables?  I'd like to find some online, but I have no idea what they're called.  As a last resort I guess I can un-solder them from the MB.
 

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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #197 on: February 28, 2018, 07:48:58 am »
Turns out the keyboard itself in the 1000HX I'm using for this new project doesn't have a controller built in.  Looks like pressing a key simply completes a circuit between two pins on the ribbon cables.  I should be able to do something with an arduino to make it work.  Anyone know what kind of connectors are on the motherboard for the ribbon cables?  I'd like to find some online, but I have no idea what they're called.  As a last resort I guess I can un-solder them from the MB.

I did some looking about and it's in the "IDC" Class apparently - couldnt find much more than that.


Btw, I sent of my latest PCB design for manufacturing, it's an external Drive adapter for the EX / HX machines and re-uses the cable & 1 edge connector adapter I made to replace missing floppy drive cables. The main point of it is to allow folks to hook up a Gotek Virtual Floppy drive for those without an external Tandy drive chassis. It will work with real floppy drives too, as long as they support being configured as DS1 (most PC drives are fixed to DS0 and cant be changed).

« Last Edit: February 28, 2018, 07:52:18 am by djos »
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Offline djos

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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #198 on: March 02, 2018, 12:43:18 am »
Due to continuing demand and the time consuming nature of building the PLUS-ISA/R adapters, I got my PCB maker to build 50 Adapters for me, it bumped the price up a bit but saves be a HUGE amount of time!

Anyhoo, they arrived yesterday!  :D



If anyone would like 1 or 2 (most folk buy 2, 1 for each Ram expansion socket), please PM me your order with email address and I'll send you an itemised PayPal invoice, they are $19 USD each + $5 USD for shipping.

For those who would prefer to buy the Adapters via eBay - here's the link (it's in Australian $ but converted = ~$23.34 USD + $7.75 USD shipping):

http://r.ebay.com/HG9Gcu
« Last Edit: March 02, 2018, 12:45:01 am by djos »
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Offline bitseeker

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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #199 on: March 02, 2018, 01:00:42 am »
Congrats on your volume getting to the point where you want/need to have them assembled. Neat.
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Offline djos

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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #200 on: March 02, 2018, 01:17:10 am »
Congrats on your volume getting to the point where you want/need to have them assembled. Neat.

Thanks, definitely a big step for me ... I think this lot might saturate the market tho.

One of these days I'll get a working design for the non-ram expansion equipped EX & HX machines out there. One of my buddies is a rather clever EE so Im hoping he'll help me learn the digital needed to get it right. :)
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Offline drussell

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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #201 on: March 02, 2018, 06:39:54 am »
It will work with real floppy drives too, as long as they support being configured as DS1 (most PC drives are fixed to DS0 and cant be changed).

Actually, most drives did have the jumpers for DS up until the last extremely-cost-reduced versions in the last few years of major production.

Regardless, why didn't you just add a jumper set-up on your board to be able to emulate the twist in the cable?
 

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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #202 on: March 02, 2018, 09:30:35 am »
It will work with real floppy drives too, as long as they support being configured as DS1 (most PC drives are fixed to DS0 and cant be changed).

Actually, most drives did have the jumpers for DS up until the last extremely-cost-reduced versions in the last few years of major production.

Regardless, why didn't you just add a jumper set-up on your board to be able to emulate the twist in the cable?

Tandy use the full Shugart standard, the cable twist and separate motor control lines were introduced by IBM when they modified the standard.

I've built this adapter for those wanting to add a Gotek virtual drive to their Tandy EX/HX without sacrificing an external Tandy chassis with a perfectly good working drive. I personally bought an external drive with a dead mechanism in it so I didnt take a good one out of service. There are plenty of the Tandy external drives floating around for those that want one, so no need imo to support the "twist" system for drive B.
 
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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #203 on: March 15, 2018, 10:38:48 am »
So it turned out that Tandy Printer Adapter v2.0 was only compatible with the EX / HX machines and not the Big-box SX/TX/TL machines as they have a heavily recessed Edge connector.

So I designed Tandy Printer Adapter v3.0 for those machines and it works great!  :-+





The only issue with it is I designed it before I got a case for my OPL2LPT, and while it fits, it places too much strain on the two connectors for my liking - I think it could be solved by grinding down the section of case causing the issue.



Other than that, it does work perfectly. :cool:

PS, for those wondering, I placed all the connectors on the front of the PCB as I thought some folks may wish to mount it on the back of their cases with thick double sided tape.

PSS, this adapter is also not compatible with the 1000/A/HD - they use different pinouts and requires different wiring.
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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #204 on: March 15, 2018, 05:51:24 pm »
Would a 90° connector for the ribbon cable enable both clearance and mounting to the enclosure without enlarging the PCB?
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Offline djos

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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #205 on: March 15, 2018, 09:17:07 pm »
Would a 90° connector for the ribbon cable enable both clearance and mounting to the enclosure without enlarging the PCB?

Good Idea, I hadn't thought of that.  :-+
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Offline bitseeker

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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #206 on: March 15, 2018, 10:33:35 pm »
Glad to be of assistance. ;)
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Offline djos

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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #207 on: March 15, 2018, 10:46:20 pm »
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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #208 on: March 15, 2018, 10:50:19 pm »
Yep, just what I had in mind. Now, there is a possibility that if the PCB is affixed to the computer enclosure, the flexed ribbon cable might be a little too close for everything to sit flush. Of course, you'll know for sure once you give it a try.
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Offline djos

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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #209 on: March 15, 2018, 10:58:22 pm »
Yep, just what I had in mind. Now, there is a possibility that if the PCB is affixed to the computer enclosure, the flexed ribbon cable might be a little too close for everything to sit flush. Of course, you'll know for sure once you give it a try.

I think it should still be fine as the cable can bend down quite easily - I'll just give folks to option to pick which header they want.
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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #210 on: March 15, 2018, 11:14:55 pm »
Sounds good!
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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #211 on: March 21, 2018, 10:22:57 am »
So the Printer Adapter v3.0 (SX/SL/TX/TL) has had an update to accommodate CVX4 & OPL2LPT Sound modules with cases on and works great - thanks Bitseeker for the awesome suggestion.  :-+


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Offline bitseeker

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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #212 on: March 21, 2018, 05:38:45 pm »
Looks good! :-+
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Offline lramirev

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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #213 on: July 15, 2018, 08:32:13 am »
So do you think you'll be selling the ISA Raiser without memory expansion? I mean the one with three slots. I liked the suggestion you did for the three cards and I'm interested in one. I'm planning to get a EX, so the smartwatch is also something I'm interested. So please let me know if you would plan to make one of the ISA Raiser.
 

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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #214 on: July 15, 2018, 08:45:17 am »
So do you think you'll be selling the ISA Raiser without memory expansion? I mean the one with three slots. I liked the suggestion you did for the three cards and I'm interested in one. I'm planning to get a EX, so the smartwatch is also something I'm interested. So please let me know if you would plan to make one of the ISA Raiser.

Howdy, I'm about to start making the Riser cards but I had to make them 2 slots as there isn't room for 3.

I've had major issues getting the smartwatch design to work, I think I've made a breakthrough today tho as killed a working original smartwatch and found a few hidden surprises under the pot hiding the batteries.
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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #215 on: July 16, 2018, 11:31:35 pm »
I finally got around to finishing the PLUS-ISA Riser Card Design - so here's the PLUS-ISA Riser Card In action folks:







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Offline bitseeker

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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #216 on: July 17, 2018, 01:32:22 am »
Looks good! So, opening a Tindie store next?
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Offline djos

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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #217 on: July 17, 2018, 02:32:43 am »
Looks good! So, opening a Tindie store next?

Cheers.  8)

I dont really know much about Tindie, I might have to look into it.  :-+
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Offline djos

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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #218 on: July 17, 2018, 09:27:47 pm »
I finally got my SmartWatch design working, here's some of my fail along the way for your amusement!  :palm:

https://youtu.be/ST9QRxh-ndc
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Offline djos

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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #219 on: July 18, 2018, 01:02:13 am »
And here's a quick demo video of the PLUS-ISA Riser Card.

https://youtu.be/U2vm5xlfoJI
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Offline bitseeker

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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #220 on: July 18, 2018, 01:40:23 am »
Cool stuff. When you showed the original SmartWatch still in one piece, I could hear Dave's voice, "Well, there's your problem." Gotta take it apart to see what you missed. Like a house, the blueprints aren't necessarily an exact match to the real thing.

Glad you got it all working! In the final spin, are you going to use headers for plugging the board into the Tandy, instead of sockets, in order to avoid bumping into an ISA card above?
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Offline djos

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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #221 on: July 18, 2018, 01:54:21 am »
Cool stuff. When you showed the original SmartWatch still in one piece, I could hear Dave's voice, "Well, there's your problem." Gotta take it apart to see what you missed. Like a house, the blueprints aren't necessarily an exact match to the real thing.

Glad you got it all working! In the final spin, are you going to use headers for plugging the board into the Tandy, instead of sockets, in order to avoid bumping into an ISA card above?

Yeah that was a mistake - i'd only removed the DS1216 and foolishly assumed there were only a pair of batteries on the underside. reading the specs etc I never found any reference to an external Clock Crystal either which you'd think would be a key detail to mention in the DS1216 datasheet!  :palm:

I tell you what tho, getting the epoxy out of the underside with as little collateral damage as possible was a real test of my patience - took me around an hour of repeatedly heating up the epoxy with 300c from my Hot Air Station and then digging chunks out with my hobby knife. It was painful but boy was it worth it in the end to get those final pieces of the jigsaw! :-+

It's hard to tell from the video, but it does actually sit under the PLUS slot without getting in the way - it sticks up a bit atm because the DS1216 is socketed and sit on top of a mainboard to case screw.

PS, Im always open to better solutions, what would you recommend to replace the socket sandwich solution?
« Last Edit: July 18, 2018, 01:57:35 am by djos »
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Offline bitseeker

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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #222 on: July 18, 2018, 02:48:46 am »
Oh, I was just referring to the empty socket on the back of the board that is being used to attach it to the motherboard. Since you're not using the actual sockets, just the pins, you could use straight pin headers on the front of the board, instead. Like this:

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Offline djos

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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #223 on: July 18, 2018, 03:15:51 am »
Oh, I was just referring to the empty socket on the back of the board that is being used to attach it to the motherboard. Since you're not using the actual sockets, just the pins, you could use straight pin headers on the front of the board, instead. Like this:

I did try that but I had issues with the square pins fitting into the DIP socket - they were a touch too chunky. I might revisit the idea tho and see if I can find some suitable thinner gauge header pins.  :-+
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Offline oPossum

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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #224 on: July 18, 2018, 03:56:55 am »
0.018/0.025" round headers may work. See this thread for some discussion and sources  https://www.eevblog.com/forum/manufacture/where-can-i-buy-this-type-of-flat-pins-for-my-smd-to-dip-pcbs/
 
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Offline djos

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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #225 on: July 18, 2018, 05:37:39 am »
0.018/0.025" round headers may work. See this thread for some discussion and sources  https://www.eevblog.com/forum/manufacture/where-can-i-buy-this-type-of-flat-pins-for-my-smd-to-dip-pcbs/

Cheers, I'll look into that. :-+
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Offline bitseeker

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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #226 on: July 18, 2018, 06:25:32 am »
Yeah, that might be just what you need. :-+
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Offline djos

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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #227 on: July 18, 2018, 08:20:41 am »
Yeah, that might be just what you need. :-+

I just ordered some parts to try out.  :-+
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Offline djos

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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #228 on: August 27, 2018, 04:54:32 am »
So I've finally got around to starting a Tindie Store - I'm just waiting for the mods to approve my product listings. Currently I have 6 products with 2 more designs about to be Built and tested this week.  8)

https://www.tindie.com/stores/CyberneticSys/
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Offline bitseeker

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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #229 on: August 27, 2018, 06:41:58 am »
Cool! You'll probably want to put your stuff on eBay as well, if you don't have them there already.
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Offline djos

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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #230 on: August 27, 2018, 07:03:09 am »
Cool! You'll probably want to put your stuff on eBay as well, if you don't have them there already.

I've sold via ebay before, but it's not worth it for low volume stuff like mine - you have to Jack up your prices to cover the ~20% in fees you end up paying.  :-[
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Offline bitseeker

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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #231 on: August 27, 2018, 07:27:15 am »
That's OK. It's free marketing. Some won't care about that difference and just buy it. Other shoppers will Google the product name to see if it's available other places at a better price and find your Tindie store.
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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #232 on: October 28, 2018, 01:41:37 pm »
So I've finally got around to starting a Tindie Store - I'm just waiting for the mods to approve my product listings. Currently I have 6 products with 2 more designs about to be Built and tested this week.  8)

https://www.tindie.com/stores/CyberneticSys/

I recently bought a Tandy 1000 HX and I'm planning to buy a couple items from your store but I was wondering if you might be able to help me out with a couple questions I have regarding the converters before I do.

I've been looking into the possibility of using an internal iomega ZIP drive on the Tandy 1000 HX using a Lo-tech IDE adaptor. From my understanding, this should work, and the issue may be power supply. From what I read on the product page of your floppy-to-gotek adapter, it would also be possible to use a standard PC floppy drive with it, but from what I have read on forums, this wouldn't be a good idea on the Tandy 1000 HX as it may damage the power supply...?

The internal ZIP-drive has a standard molex connector on the back so using your floppy-to-gotek adapter, and then a molex to 4-pin floppy power connector, that is my theoretical idea to power the ZIP-drive.

Now my question is, is this a good idea, or does this setup have the potential to damage the Tandy's power supply? Or, have I overlooked other potential issues?
 

Offline djos

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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #233 on: October 28, 2018, 08:23:41 pm »
Howdy, TBH I don't think I'd be concerned about powering an IDE zip drive from the floppy 5v power, the zip drive uses a Maximum Continuous 800 mA and a Peak current draw of 1.65 amps. A typical floppy drive peak draw is 500mA with continuous draw of 450mA.

Many folk ran 3.5" hard drives internally back in the day and I reckon those old beasts would require way more current than a zip drive. Admittedly they'd have used 12v, but there's only 2 amp supply there.

The HX power supply can sustain 3.0 amp current supply on the 5v side.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2018, 08:53:26 pm by djos »
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Offline djos

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Re: Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project
« Reply #234 on: November 04, 2018, 04:42:12 am »
Hi Guy's, I'm having a pre-Xmas 10% off Sale for the 1st 10 orders from my Tandy 1000 adapter range this month!

Use the code: 6F445D33 at Checkout.

https://www.tindie.com/stores/CyberneticSys/

Apparently the above code isnt working for some folk, so here's another one just in-case: 67FC73DA
« Last Edit: November 07, 2018, 04:48:25 am by djos »
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