Author Topic: What was the internet like in 1989, heres a reproduction you can navigate!  (Read 18957 times)

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Online coppice

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The OSI model is also not the definition of "The Internet" nor is it the definition of "internetworking". The OSI model is the model of ALL computer networking and it describes what networking actually is inside any hardware that can network.
Did you never catch on to the OSI model being developed as a joke? It actually describes no system ever developed. They started with 7, because Dante said that was the number of layers in hell, and worked backwards until they could assign a humorous name and meaning to each of those layers.
 

Offline madires

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Remarkably, you can still find ISDN hardware listed on ebay. So someone must still be making calls to the last century?

There are still many ISDN PBXs and the telephone networks of some countries are also still based on ISDN. Over here it's nearly dead, i.e. phased out. And the last telcos running ISDN can't get new spare parts. It's all VoIP now.
 

Offline EasyGoing1

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Yup. University of Bristol via JANET.

AH! But that was not "The Internet" as it now exists ... Al Gores campaign was specifically intended to bring those kinds of inter-networks to the home user. That is why he sponsored legislation such as the "Information Super Highway Act of 1992" or whatever it was called. YES the Internet existed before then, but it was only available to an elite few organizations and it was only called The Internet once those ARPANET networks became globally interconnected and that happened long before people could connect to them from their homes. But originally, those networks only existed within higher education and government buildings as well as select private government contractors. But without Al Gore's efforts to bring those Internetworks to the home user, we would not have "The Internet" as a service like we do today (well we might, but it still would have required our government taking action to change the laws concerning who could legally connect to those networks (since they were all government created in their inception from various public fund sources) as well as whatever funding was required to then physically make those legal changes a reality for the public ... where anyone can now pay a monthly fee and purchase their own independent connection into that global pool of internetworks for around $30 a month or more ... which we affectionately refer to now as "The Internet".

The other truth that I have been trying to say here, is that the term "The Internet" was totally unknown to the general public before the US government opened it up to the entire public. Prior to that, the only people who would have known what "The Internet" even was, would be people who existed in the organizations who were connected to it and possibly those who actually used it such as university students. But the general public knew NOTHING about "The Internet" until it was a service that they were finally able to purchase and use for themselves, and that didn't happen until Al Gore was successful in making it happen - at least here in the United States that is how shit went down.

I hope that helps clarify what I have been trying to say here... and in 1989, the general public did NOT know anything about the Internet since it was not a service they could purchase access to until around 1994-ish.

Mike
« Last Edit: March 01, 2021, 03:58:15 pm by EasyGoing1 »
 

Offline madires

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THE INTERNET happens in layer 3 mostly because layer 3 is where ROUTING between different networks happen.

Let's say layer 2.5. We have MPLS for 20 years now.
 

Offline CJay

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I rather regret chucking out most of the old modems I had but they're of very little or no practical use these days, about the only thing I have needed an analogue modem for in the past 5 years or so was to send a fax to a government department and I managed that with an all in one printer.

I had one running until I left Fidonet two years ago. It was used for fax and as last resort for Fidonet nodes which couldn't connect via binkp (FTS IP mailer and protocol). I also have a USR V.everything (the early version sold as Courier V34 which can be easily upgraded via a firmware update). But you're right, they are basically e-junk now besides having some sentimental value.

Given that I almost *never* use my landline for anything other than winding up 'Hello this is Microsoft calling, you have virus on your machine' now (it's the pipe that brings VDSL into my home) I could quite easily set up and run a BBS at home.

It's a tempting idea, just need to find a modem a little faster than this one

 

Offline JohnnyMalaria

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Yup. University of Bristol via JANET.

AH! But that was not "The Internet" as it now exists ... Al Gores campaign was specifically intended to bring those kinds of inter-networks to the home user. That is why he sponsored legislation such as the "Information Super Highway Act of 1992" or whatever it was called. YES the Internet existed before then, but it was only available to an elite few organizations and it was only called The Internet once those ARPANET networks became globally interconnected and that happened long before people could connect to them from their homes. But originally, those networks only existed within higher education and government buildings as well as select private government contractors. But without Al Gore's efforts to bring those Internetworks to the home user, we would not have "The Internet" as a service like we do today (well we might, but it still would have required our government taking action to change the laws concerning who could legally connect to those networks (since they were all government created in their inception from various public fund sources) as well as whatever funding was required to then physically make those legal changes a reality for the public ... where anyone can now pay a monthly fee and purchase their own independent connection into that global pool of internetworks for around $30 a month or more ... which we affectionately refer to now as "The Internet".

The other truth that I have been trying to say here, is that the term "The Internet" was totally unknown to the general public before the US government opened it up to the entire public. Prior to that, the only people who would have known what "The Internet" even was, would be people who existed in the organizations who were connected to it and possibly those who actually used it such as university students. But the general public knew NOTHING about "The Internet" until it was a service that they were finally able to purchase and use for themselves, and that didn't happen until Al Gore was successful in making it happen - at least here in the United States that is how shit went down.

I hope that helps clarify what I have been trying to say here...

Mike

Just because the general public was ignorant does not negate the fact the Internet already existed and was in use by a lot of people. For sure, Al Gore shared a vision that many others had and, given his position of influence, enabled the development of the Internet as the lay public know it today.
 

Offline madires

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Given that I almost *never* use my landline for anything other than winding up 'Hello this is Microsoft calling, you have virus on your machine' now (it's the pipe that brings VDSL into my home) I could quite easily set up and run a BBS at home.

It's a tempting idea, just need to find a modem a little faster than this one

Why faster? 2400 is the right speed for retro-feelings. ;D

PS: The maximum for VoIP lines is about 24k.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2021, 04:03:30 pm by madires »
 

Offline CJay

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Given that I almost *never* use my landline for anything other than winding up 'Hello this is Microsoft calling, you have virus on your machine' now (it's the pipe that brings VDSL into my home) I could quite easily set up and run a BBS at home.

It's a tempting idea, just need to find a modem a little faster than this one

Why faster? 2400 is the right speed for retro-feelings. ;D

PS: The maximum for VoIP lines is about 24k.

I was hoping for 9600 but you make a good point. I wonder if I can scratch up an Amiga from somewhere...
 

Offline EasyGoing1

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THE INTERNET happens in layer 3 mostly because layer 3 is where ROUTING between different networks happen.

Let's say layer 2.5. We have MPLS for 20 years now.

MPLS is actually pretty cool technology. It provides businesses with a VERY inexpensive way to create - effectively "nailed" end to end connections between buildings that geographically at great distances apart, but using the Internet as the mechanism for creating that "hard link' ... before the Internet was everywhere, the only way to get a true end to end connection between two buildings that were at great distances apart (California to New York for example) was to purchase very expensive dedicated circuits via T1 lines, T3 lines or fractional T1 lines also known as frame-relay circuits (those kinds of circuits were and are sold at a price based on cost per mile). T1 lines are the most common type and are telco owned dedicated trunk lines and they consist of 24 multiplexed channels of digital signal sent over two copper wires (64k in each channels because UNCOMPRESSED voice audio that happens in an end to end phone call requires 64k of bandwitch, so a T1 can handle 24 simultaneous phone calls).  Of course when it came to interstate methods of implementing those connections on a physical layer, there could be any number of different technologies used along the way but in the early days before packet networks, infrastructure was optimized with multiplexers ... but with the adoption of fiber, other technologies were created to then transpose those kinds of signals on the fiber, but a T1 line from California to New York, had a government mandated level of service that we call the "Five 9's of reliability" meaning that as per federal law, that connection had to be up and working 99.99999% of the time in any given 12 month period.

Today, companies can have a very similar kind of service using MPLS. The difference being that MPLS uses the telco's INTERNET backbone to create a virtual point to point connection between two different buildings.

What is important to note here is that even though the packets that define the MPLS connection do exist on the Internet, the actual data that is passed within those packet streams ARE NOT accessible to the Internet. Because that MPLS connection is handed off to a customer as a point-to-point dedication connection that the customer would have to assign IP addresses to that are consistent with their internal PRIVATE network. 

It's like VPN, only managed by the telco themselves and without any need for the customer to deal with VPN details such as usernames and passwords etc. I like to think of it as a tunnel but better than a tunnel because it has certain bandwidth guarantees that go with it and that bandwidth is managed by the phone companies who own that infrastructure where the customer has no control over that aspect of the link.

Here again, MPLS USES the Internet ... but is by no means a definition of the Internet itself... MPLS is to HTTP is to TCP is to UDP is to FTP is to SFTP is to TELNET is to TORRENTS is to etc. etc. etc. they all ride on the Internet but are not the Internet in it of themselves.
 

Offline EasyGoing1

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Just because the general public was ignorant does not negate the fact the Internet already existed and was in use by a lot of people. For sure, Al Gore shared a vision that many others had and, given his position of influence, enabled the development of the Internet as the lay public know it today.

That was the only point I was trying to make here ... that the Internet as we know it today, didn't start until well after 1987.
 

Offline madires

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Here again, MPLS USES the Internet ...

Sorry, but it's the other way around.

PS: To understand MPLS you should focus on the 'S' for 'switching'.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2021, 05:52:23 pm by madires »
 
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Offline bd139

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Here again, MPLS USES the Internet ...

Sorry, it's the other way around.

Yep

Just set up massive AWS MPLS Direct Connect / datacentre global network...
 

Offline hammy

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Did you never catch on to the OSI model being developed as a joke? It actually describes no system ever developed. They started with 7, because Dante said that was the number of layers in hell, [...]

Nine. In Dante's Inferno hell is depicted as nine concentric circles.
 

Online coppice

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Did you never catch on to the OSI model being developed as a joke? It actually describes no system ever developed. They started with 7, because Dante said that was the number of layers in hell, [...]

Nine. In Dante's Inferno hell is depicted as nine concentric circles.
Yeah, but it gets messy when you reach layer 7, as they all have subdivisions after that. Maybe I was wrong. Maybe OSI was based on the Taco Bell 7 layer burrito.
 
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Offline bd139

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Yes layer 7 is where the hipsters and charlatans live.
 

Online tggzzz

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BTW, I was there. I missed the 1984 kremvax hoax, but was using the internet before going to do research on the internet from 1987 onwards.

You were using the Internet in 1987? Which country / state did you live in? Who was your Internet Service Provider?  Because if it was AOL or Compuserve or a similar type of service, that was NOT "The Internet" - that would have been a closed network that offered resources that you used to do research. THE INTERNET - meaning the ability to purchase a connection that connected you directly into the Internet itself was not possible for home users (at least in the United States) until the low / mid 1990s.

So many wrong statements there, it is difficult to know where to begin.

The problem stems from your wrong and myopic definition of "the internet". You appear to be inspired by Humpty Dumpty's use of "glory"!
« Last Edit: March 01, 2021, 07:58:04 pm by tggzzz »
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
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Online Gyro

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Anyone remember DECnet (the odds are that some of you must). Irrc, it had around 180k computers connected at one point, it was second only to Arpanet at the time. We were using emails, forums, and dial-in home terminals in the early-mid '80s!

It was Ken Olsen's proud brag that DEC could network IBM computers better than IBM could. Happy days.
Best Regards, Chris
 

Offline madires

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Do you mean the network protocol suite or a network based on DECnet? IIRC, there was an international research network based on DECnet.
 

Online coppice

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Anyone remember DECnet (the odds are that some of you must). Irrc, it had around 180k computers connected at one point, it was second only to Arpanet at the time. We were using emails, forums, and dial-in home terminals in the early-mid '80s!

It was Ken Olsen's proud brag that DEC could network IBM computers better than IBM could. Happy days.
Wasn't DECnet the world's largest carrier of email at one time? It dates from around the same time as ARPAnet. Is that figure of 180k computers pure DECnet, or the sum of systems interconnected by SNA, X.25 and other protocols?
 

Online Gyro

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Wasn't DECnet the world's largest carrier of email at one time? It dates from around the same time as ARPAnet.

It wouldn't surprise me - it all seemed pretty normal compared to the 'culture shock' of going to work there.

Quote
Is that figure of 180k computers pure DECnet, or the sum of systems interconnected by SNA, X.25 and other protocols?

Nope, that was just DECnet, VAXes and PDP-11s.


P.S. I still have trouble remembering that it's forward '/' in web addresses!
« Last Edit: March 01, 2021, 08:34:28 pm by Gyro »
Best Regards, Chris
 

Offline helius

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I also have a USR V.everything (the early version sold as Courier V34 which can be easily upgraded via a firmware update).
Do you happen to know the specs of the power adapter for that? I picked up a Courier at a flea market a decade ago but power requirements are totally absent from the unit or its manual.
I guess it could be 9 VAC, as many other modems are, but also might not.

Also, if anyone wants to clue me in on what a "Voice" modem is, I would appreciate it. Ever since I read about the feature in the 1990s, I was confused about what it was or did. Does it convert audio into a RS232 bytestream for some kind of voicemail capability? Or does it just speak a limited vocabulary into the phone line?
« Last Edit: March 01, 2021, 09:41:31 pm by helius »
 

Offline madires

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The original power adapter is a transformer with 2 * 8V AC at 1.2A. The voltage isn't critical, 9V are also fine. The pinout for the 4-pin Mini DIN is
- 1  0V AC #1
- 2  8V AC #2
- 3  8V AC #1
- 4  0V AC #2
Pins 1 and 2 are connected. You can also power the modem with +12V DC (0.5A) and -12V DC (0.02A). IIRC, it has classic 78xx/79xx for low current stuff and a buck converter for 5V.

Voice modems are able to play and record audio, and they came usually with some answering machine software. However, the audio quality isn't great.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2021, 10:59:17 am by madires »
 
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Offline CJay

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Voice modems are able to play and record audio, and they came usually with some answering machine software. However, the audio quality isn't great.
They often come with software to create call systems too, I.E. Press 1 for ritual humiliation, Press 2 to be connected to a demon from one of the lower circles of hell
 

Offline madires

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Also called IVR. Most voice modems can detect and decode DTMF tones. So the IVR software is basically a specialized script interpreter making use of that.
 
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Offline Rasz

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ISDN ShmeeSDN, Ericsson decided to reinvent the wheel and made their own incompatible ISDN like product, Home internet Solution (HiS), using same underlying technologies (2B1Q coding at 160Kbit). My guess would be either bypassing patents, licensing fees, or strong Not-invented-here syndrome.

page 20 https://www.ericsson.com/assets/local/about-ericsson/ericsson-history/lme-review/documents/da2011-35599-ericsson_review_vol_75_1998.pdf

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/speedy-internet-connection-for-export-only/3JBV3TX5BGTSZD34SEWMQT5U7Q/

Hardware developed in New Zealand and manufactured in Australia of all places. Afaik only wide deployment happened in Poland (1999-2004), finally shut down in 2011.
I got on the list and was one of the first connected in my district in late 1999. Cost of installation equaled one average monthly salary (~$300 at the time), then ~$40/month. Static IP, always on 115Kbit/s, real game changer after dialup. Today we pay ~$15 for 300Mbit cable, or up to $40 for 1Gbit fiber.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2021, 04:08:12 pm by Rasz »
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