Author Topic: FranLab is getting evicted  (Read 26909 times)

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Offline MT

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #275 on: October 25, 2018, 02:54:05 am »
P.S. Look into how expensive it is to be poor. Everything you use costs you more than if you have money. From grocery stores in poor neighborhoods charging more (often a lot more), to not having the cash up-front to buy things in bulk (never mind afford a Costco membership), to how you pay more for insurance, etc.

(And “poor” is relative: many Americans work 2–3 jobs just to stay afloat, never mind have the time or money to pay for school, or childcare to make the time, etc. There’s no way to save in those situations.)

And sickness (not even cancer) for a month or less can and have made some go into personal bankrutt!
 
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Online langwadt

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #276 on: October 25, 2018, 03:18:03 am »

It's very easy to demonise people for living beyond their means,  but you don't know their financial situation.

In the UK, the average salary is £27,000,  but the average house is over £250,000, so only high earners or lucky well-paid professional couples can buy them.  Even a basic two-bedroom flat in the SE of England,  where many well paying jobs are located,  will cost your north of £200k.

in an area with well paying job housing will be more expensive, that's never going to chance


The only option you have if you ever want to escape the cycle of renting is to mortgage a house for 90% of its value (and finding £30,000 to put down, once agents fees and moving costs are accounted for) and hope that house prices don't crash because if they do,  you will be trapped in negative equity for the next twenty years, unable to move out of the house you now despise.

has there ever been a time where it took more than max 10 years to break even?

So we've built a society that essentially continues propping up house prices and rents to support those who own,  because we're so afraid of the damage this could cause,  but this is just at the expense of everyone else who don't own homes.  This problem is unsolvable without upsetting a substantial portion of the population, namely the ones who tend to vote (older generations, baby boomers typically.)

how would you change that houses are worth what people willing to pay for them, mandate a maximum price? here there are certain type of houses that have a fixed price,  when that is much less than the free market value it usually means bags of cash change hands to
be the "lucky" buyer

 

Offline nctnico

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #277 on: October 25, 2018, 05:02:10 am »
She finally has a GoFundMe set up, and it's doing very well!

https://www.gofundme.com/franlab-needs-a-new-home/
Just checked the page but no Paypal button??
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 
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Offline cdev

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #278 on: October 25, 2018, 07:24:43 am »

in an area with well paying job housing will be more expensive, that's never going to change



Technology changes things rapidly.

Suppose AI explodes in the next decade, making it possible to do most jobs without workers or even computer programmers?

Then lots of housing may become available in the areas where jobs are lost, all around the world, because people who have loans may be unable to meet payments.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2018, 07:34:37 am by cdev »
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Offline nctnico

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #279 on: October 25, 2018, 07:47:20 am »

in an area with well paying job housing will be more expensive, that's never going to change

Technology changes things rapidly.

Suppose AI explodes in the next decade, making it possible to do most jobs without workers or even computer programmers?
That ain't gonna happen.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Online langwadt

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #280 on: October 25, 2018, 08:03:23 am »

in an area with well paying job housing will be more expensive, that's never going to change



Technology changes things rapidly.

Suppose AI explodes in the next decade, making it possible to do most jobs without workers or even computer programmers?

Then lots of housing may become available in the areas where jobs are lost, all around the world, because people who have loans may be unable to meet payments.

yes, so where there are no well paid jobs housing will be cheap

 

Offline a59d1

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #281 on: October 25, 2018, 08:42:25 am »
Parking a car on a street and moving it when that is needed, requires knowledge of when streets are going to be cleaned and a daily attention to detail, as well as having immediate access to funds to bail a car out if its towed,  that is guaranteed to trip up those who don't have a stable life situation.

People survive for a long time without any of that preparation.
 

Offline james_s

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #282 on: October 26, 2018, 02:56:08 am »
If someone is drinking coffee at Starbucks and have the latest iPhone to escape their financial situation, they're doing it wrong. That is irrational behavior, behavior which I was able to easily avoid so I know it's not that hard. When someone is living sensibly and still struggling then I'll be far more sympathetic.
 
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Offline EEVblog

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #283 on: October 30, 2018, 11:05:30 am »
Latest update.
She can get into a nice space, but they want 1 years rent up front, $30k or so, which seems crazy.

I wonder if she can separate working and living spaces. i.e. get a small apartment to live in and rent a commercial lab space somewhere?
Does Philly have commercial business parks like we do here?

 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #284 on: October 30, 2018, 11:19:54 am »
Just had a quick look at commercial realestate in Philly, and I can't seem to find prices on anything, is this normal?

https://www2.colliers.com/en/Properties/#sort=date%20descending&f:propertytype=[Office,Industrial]&f:_91F90D81-D1CE-4EF8-AC35-41F58B651EE8=[2000..5000]&f:lat=[39.11795702025965..40.17534721445156]&f:long=[-78.61342166379006..-71.62886355832131]&location=Philadelphia%2C%20PA%2C%20USA&offeringtype=For%20Lease

https://www2.colliers.com/en/properties/class-a-office-building/USA-1020-laurel-oak-road-voorhees-nj/USA1023571

Here we have lease prices on almost all listings and consolidated websites were all the different agents list their properties on one website.
 

Offline cdev

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #285 on: October 30, 2018, 12:48:03 pm »
Probably not right inside the city like we do in suburbia. My memories of Philly the times I have been there is that its the classic East Coast city with a downtown of a mix of older, mostly red brick industrial spaces and some modern buildings, a fair amount of modern buildings but many of them are themselves aging, maybe dating back to the 70s and 80s. Philly also has lots of very old houses, some single family, others converted into flats. The last time I was there was around six years ago, and even though many many neighborhoods have seen a lot of restorative energy and fresh paint, and are kind of gentrified, it still has its share of run down housing thats not that far from abandonment. Some towns in the area (on the NJ side of the river) are realistically, close to being slums.

Riding through Philly on the train in the distant past (a really long time ago and memories are very hazy) not regularly, (because I lived in CA back then) what is called the Eastern corridor, I used to see a lot of English looking row housing, some of it nice, but most of it kind of run down. (Thinking about it though, I may be confusing Philly with Baltimore, thats quite possible, the Amtrak train goes through both areas)

Much of that is likely gone by now. Some parts of that area are also very upscale. NJ has a lot of industrial parks, one area that has a lot of electronics is the Princeton area which is not that far from Philly. But its expensive. Probably way too expensive for Fran.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2018, 12:54:16 pm by cdev »
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Offline tom66

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #286 on: October 30, 2018, 07:42:15 pm »

in an area with well paying job housing will be more expensive, that's never going to chance

Thing is - it's all over the country

Unless you live absolutely in the middle of nowhere,  you're going to be paying at least £150,000 for a home.  For instance I live in the NE of England,  where the average salary is £23k and the house price average is still around £180k.  That's still a ratio of >7:1 so most banks will not loan you the money to buy the house without a substantial downpayment...and good luck putting that downpayment down when you're paying £7-8k a year in rent alone.

how would you change that houses are worth what people willing to pay for them, mandate a maximum price? here there are certain type of houses that have a fixed price,  when that is much less than the free market value it usually means bags of cash change hands to
be the "lucky" buyer
There's no free market with houses, we have a bunch of people who own land in vast swathes,  who continue to sit on that land because it appreciates in value.  Building houses would decrease the value of their land, so few homes get built.

The only way to fix the housing crisis in most of Europe, and it is already a crisis in the UK and not too far from being a crisis elsewhere, is to build more homes.  Supply and demand will take care of prices there. The trouble really is then trying to solve the negative equity bubble that's just been created,  which is not easy.
 

Offline MrW0lf

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #287 on: October 30, 2018, 08:57:57 pm »
The only way to fix the housing crisis in most of Europe, and it is already a crisis in the UK and not too far from being a crisis elsewhere, is to build more homes.  Supply and demand will take care of prices there. The trouble really is then trying to solve the negative equity bubble that's just been created,  which is not easy.

Building homes goes against the general idea of concentrating people in cities. So building home needs to be difficult and expensive. Here they made sure it wont be even a habitable home by forcing A energy rating on new private buildings from 2020. This will mean unreasonable amount of insulation materials and everything rotting forever with even slightest issue with vapor control membranes or violation of building procedures. They are experimenting with this in Scandinavia for some time in public building sector and these are notorious mold nests. Kindergartens, schools etc...
 

Offline tom66

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #288 on: October 30, 2018, 10:57:35 pm »
The only way to fix the housing crisis in most of Europe, and it is already a crisis in the UK and not too far from being a crisis elsewhere, is to build more homes.  Supply and demand will take care of prices there. The trouble really is then trying to solve the negative equity bubble that's just been created,  which is not easy.

Building homes goes against the general idea of concentrating people in cities. So building home needs to be difficult and expensive. Here they made sure it wont be even a habitable home by forcing A energy rating on new private buildings from 2020. This will mean unreasonable amount of insulation materials and everything rotting forever with even slightest issue with vapor control membranes or violation of building procedures. They are experimenting with this in Scandinavia for some time in public building sector and these are notorious mold nests. Kindergartens, schools etc...

Some people don't want to live in cities.  And raising children is awful in a flat. So we need more homes.

But anyway, we are still not even building enough flats, when a flat in the city centre of Leeds costs £300,000 for two bedrooms. Even outskirts, lower than £150,000 is rare.
 

Offline cdev

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #289 on: October 31, 2018, 12:48:41 am »
This (see link) is relevant to the housing problem everywhere, just about, too. Worth reading, it explains a lot.
"What the large print giveth, the small print taketh away."
 

Offline james_s

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #290 on: October 31, 2018, 04:23:34 am »
The root of the issue is that there are just far too many people who want to live in certain geographical areas. The US for example has vast swaths of sparsely populated land, but nobody wants to live in the middle of the country. Everyone flocks to coastal areas like Seattle where the population is becoming unbearable. Building more homes attracts more people like widening a road generates more traffic. It brings with it additional load on all the other infrastructure. Traffic gridlock downtown is a daily occurrence, even the buses get packed to standing room only. There is nowhere to build enough housing to meet the demand, people continue to flood in by the tens of thousands.
 
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Offline technix

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #291 on: October 31, 2018, 05:14:23 am »
The root of the issue is that there are just far too many people who want to live in certain geographical areas. The US for example has vast swaths of sparsely populated land, but nobody wants to live in the middle of the country. Everyone flocks to coastal areas like Seattle where the population is becoming unbearable. Building more homes attracts more people like widening a road generates more traffic. It brings with it additional load on all the other infrastructure. Traffic gridlock downtown is a daily occurrence, even the buses get packed to standing room only. There is nowhere to build enough housing to meet the demand, people continue to flood in by the tens of thousands.
At least you have swaths of habitable land, and there is no need to literally blow a mountain up to construct infrastructure if people are to be spaced out. With that geography it is possible to space out the population if the government is willing to invest in the infrastructure.

Countries like China has swaths of inhospitable mountain ranges and deserts. Every inch of halfway habitable land is already densely populated yet we still have to put people into those hostile locations and have trouble lift them out of poverty. Here in China almost the entire southwestern quarter of the mainland of the country is covered in one of the largest mountain ranges and the highest plateau in the world - this mountain range starts not far west from Shenzhen really. And the northern half, with the exception of the strip next to ocean, is desert. A newly constructed highway, G7 Beijing-Urumqi Expressway running almost the entire length of northern China, has a few hundred-mile stretches crossing literally no man’s land, not even a gas station. just road.
 
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Offline nctnico

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #292 on: October 31, 2018, 06:59:39 am »
Well you Chinese have lots of sea-shore as well. Call Arcadis and have them convert sea (or lakes) into land. Problem solved.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2018, 07:02:37 am by nctnico »
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Offline cdev

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #293 on: October 31, 2018, 07:36:49 am »
It seems that China might do well to buy some additional land in the northeast from Russia.

We should be less obsessed by growth and put more energy into improving the quality of life for people.

The root of the issue is that there are just far too many people who want to live in certain geographical areas. The US for example has vast swaths of sparsely populated land, but nobody wants to live in the middle of the country. Everyone flocks to coastal areas like Seattle where the population is becoming unbearable. Building more homes attracts more people like widening a road generates more traffic. It brings with it additional load on all the other infrastructure. Traffic gridlock downtown is a daily occurrence, even the buses get packed to standing room only. There is nowhere to build enough housing to meet the demand, people continue to flood in by the tens of thousands.
At least you have swaths of habitable land, and there is no need to literally blow a mountain up to construct infrastructure if people are to be spaced out. With that geography it is possible to space out the population if the government is willing to invest in the infrastructure.

Countries like China has swaths of inhospitable mountain ranges and deserts. Every inch of halfway habitable land is already densely populated yet we still have to put people into those hostile locations and have trouble lift them out of poverty. Here in China almost the entire southwestern quarter of the mainland of the country is covered in one of the largest mountain ranges and the highest plateau in the world - this mountain range starts not far west from Shenzhen really. And the northern half, with the exception of the strip next to ocean, is desert. A newly constructed highway, G7 Beijing-Urumqi Expressway running almost the entire length of northern China, has a few hundred-mile stretches crossing literally no man’s land, not even a gas station. just road.

I do think that the world generally including the US has lots more build-able and habitable land than many make out. One problem you pointed out, frankly, they aren't willing to invest in the infrastructure.

Imagine a landlord who is fixated on short term profit generation, and not investment for the long haul.

The very good thing is technology. Technology is the return on the investment by the entire human race in knowledge, an investment that now is paying back large dividends, gains which uniquely, could be shared without taking from people. Technology by itself is a radically win win thing, not a zero sum game.

We have to rise to the challenges it presents us and figure out what to do. Its the biggest challenge we've ever faced.

We could easily solve the housing problem by applying technology to the making of high quality homes. Houses can be manufactured and not be cheaply made. It would be smart to do that. But ... (see the link I posted earlier to the web site in Australia, the same applies to us)
« Last Edit: October 31, 2018, 08:25:04 am by cdev »
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Offline rrinker

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #294 on: October 31, 2018, 07:50:53 am »
I have never in my entire life seen a poor person who had an expensive new phone. Nor an expensive new car.


I sure have, lots of them. That's not to say it's a leading cause of poverty or anything but I'm shocked you haven't known or even met at least a couple people who can barely pay the rent at the end of the month but always seem to have a top of the line smartphone and/or a nice ride.

Then there is a whole other group of people who would not normally be considered poor, they make a decent wage but if you look at their finances their house is mortgaged to the hilt and they are living far beyond their means and deep in debt.

Then there are the most visible poor, the homeless population. Of the ones you see, a large majority are suffering from mental illness and/or drug addiction. I see them every day walking between my bus stop and office.

 Indeed. Just come here and I will take you into the city I live just outside of and show you the cars, which aren't fancy, but have sets of wheels and tires on them worth probably 10x what the car is, with a stereo system installed that is so loud you can hear them coming from blocks away. It's quite common around here. Enough so that there are plenty of places to take advantage of these people's poor money management and decision making skills - often the wheels and tires are RENTED - yes, you can RENT TO OWN wheels and tires for you car, so even if you don't have a couple thousand dollars for the bling bling rims, you don;t need to feel left out. The stereo and speakers are probably rented, too. Now, many are quick to condemn these companies for taking advantage, but they most definitely are not forcing anyone to pay their ridiculously high prices (after the terms are up, you do own whatever it is you are renting, however by that time you will have easily paid 2-3x or even more vs just buying the item. But then if you can't afford to just outright buy the item - but these aren't necessities, a better money manager would just save up and do without until they can buy the desired item, or really not buy it at all because you simply don't need it.). No one is standing outside these stores and tossing people inside and making them stay until they sign a rental agreement for some piece of electronic gear, or furniture, or whatever. These places exist because there ARE people who will pay their prices just to get things NOW. Who's fault is that really?
 

Offline cdev

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #295 on: October 31, 2018, 07:59:08 am »
If young people are denied opportunities for advancement in the system thats dominant, they will create alternative hierarchies "subcultures" they can rise in - its a primal need thats tied to reproduction.

Evolutionary biology explains a lot of things people do, in ways which might not be obvious at first but when you see it, it makes perfect sense.

OTOH, IF we were smarter, we would protect poor people from predatory lending instead of encouraging it.

Oh, and electronics of certain kinds is now cheap enough so that it at least, should not be that expensive. 

Music is good for all of us. Basic furniture doesn't have to be that expensive either. Furniture can be nice without being expensive. There is no law that says we have to have a society that attempts to make people miserable unless they buy lots of stuff they can't afford. That attempts to measure people's intrinsic worth by how much they spend. But we do.

But, if people had a better support network and less stress they wouldn't need to buy useless stuff to feel happy. Actually, learning is a flow experience that competes positively with all the others well. It can help keep people sane in a world of problems.

Learning is fun. Everybody needs to have some fun from time to time. Fun doesn't necessarily cost money. Its good for people.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2018, 08:19:22 am by cdev »
"What the large print giveth, the small print taketh away."
 
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Offline thm_w

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #296 on: October 31, 2018, 08:52:58 am »
Latest update.
She can get into a nice space, but they want 1 years rent up front, $30k or so, which seems crazy.

I wonder if she can separate working and living spaces. i.e. get a small apartment to live in and rent a commercial lab space somewhere?
Does Philly have commercial business parks like we do here?

youtube.com/watch?v=LAGe4G_HAvI

Gofundme is at 41k, so she has the money.

Some prices here: https://www.loopnet.com/pennsylvania/philadelphia-commercial-real-estate/
Anywhere from $6-25 /sf/yr. $30k for 4,000 sqft would be $7.50 which is reasonable I guess.

Rent for apartment would be another $700-1k per month.
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #297 on: October 31, 2018, 09:48:59 am »
I just rented the new lab at $40k gross a year. It's certainly not cheap (well, actually it is kinda cheap for my business park), but I'm paying for the privilege of being close to home, i.e. basically no commute to work (2 minutes by car, 5 minutes by bike, 17min walk)
If would be a different story if I was single with no dependencies like Fran, there would be far more options to uproot where and how I live.
 
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Offline tooki

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #298 on: October 31, 2018, 09:57:47 am »
For sure.

One thing that Fran hasn't said, but perhaps could be a factor in her reluctance to move out of her neighborhood in Philly, is her belonging to a minority group that is currently under active, rabid siege by the conservative right (all the way up to the White House, which has now erased all mention of that group from all federal websites). On the one hand, she's not going to want to move to a state where attempting to use the bathroom could get her beat up or arrested, and on the other hand, she probably has a substantial social/support network in Philly that she does not want to leave behind. (I know that as a gay man, there are many parts of the USA I would be hesitant to move to, and I understand the importance of having people like yourself around.)
 
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Offline cdev

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #299 on: October 31, 2018, 10:35:32 am »
It's an interesting experience being a minority straight person/couple in a mostly gay neighborhood. The thing to take away is that its really safe for people of all kinds. Because gay people are attacked all the time, or at least were, in the past, many gay people carried/wore/wear whistles. If they were being attacked, they could blow a whistle and lots of people would be out on the streets to protect them, in seconds.

Plus its clean and well kept up. And stores, like food stores are open late. Its also child friendly, lots of gay couples are parents, they adopt. Culturally, its not that different than any other urban area with just these few exceptions.

The downside now is of course, then and especially now, the whole urban everything is insanely expensive, especially nicer neighborhoods.

While there, I also had trans neighbors. Once my trans neighbor and I had to fend off a crazy person who had come down our air shaft and gotten trapped in the small space outside our two apartments. They ended up climbing back up to the roof on the piping. (Our landlord in that building was not into repairing things like the front door's electric lock, so homeless people would get in, sometimes take drugs in the hallways, and sometimes we had to call the police to get them out of there.)
« Last Edit: October 31, 2018, 10:41:40 am by cdev »
"What the large print giveth, the small print taketh away."
 
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