Author Topic: Shaving with laser?  (Read 60825 times)

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Offline frenky

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Shaving with laser?
« on: September 22, 2015, 05:55:16 pm »
What do you guys think of this?
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/skarp/the-skarp-laser-razor-21st-century-shaving

Are the selling snake oil or is it really possible to put such a powerful laser in such small package?
 

BulletMagnet83

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Re: Shaving with laser?
« Reply #1 on: September 22, 2015, 06:03:02 pm »
I also have to wonder if a laser powerful enough to shave with could be considered eye-safe? I mean... if you're supposed to point it at your face, they better have some sort of safety interlock in the "blade".

As a bald dude, I want to believe... being able to laser-polish my melon would be awesome. But I'm just not quite convinced.
 

Offline tggzzz

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Re: Shaving with laser?
« Reply #2 on: September 22, 2015, 06:03:54 pm »
What do you guys think of this?
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/skarp/the-skarp-laser-razor-21st-century-shaving

Are the selling snake oil or is it really possible to put such a powerful laser in such small package?

Wrong question. The right question is "would the product be safe and obtain regulatory approval?".
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
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Offline firewalker

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Re: Shaving with laser?
« Reply #3 on: September 22, 2015, 06:07:42 pm »
Isn;t mandatory for KickStarter to ha e a working prototype of some kind?

I think this is another "mu thermal camera" type project.

Alexander.
Become a realist, stay a dreamer.

 

Offline wraper

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Re: Shaving with laser?
« Reply #4 on: September 22, 2015, 06:13:58 pm »
If it is powerful enough to burn the hair, it is powerful enough to burn the skin too. Extremely dangerous to the eyes too. It would never pass safety approvals. Blatant scam. Regarding to the power, it's not even focused in one point but rather wide line, so no way a laser powerful enough + batteries required would fit in this size. Also imagine the smell of burned hair when shaving  :).
 

BulletMagnet83

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Re: Shaving with laser?
« Reply #5 on: September 22, 2015, 06:16:09 pm »
If it is powerful enough to burn the hair, it is powerful enough to burn the skin too. Extremely dangerous to the eyes too. It would never pass safety approvals. Blatant scam. Regarding to the power, it's not even focused in one point but rather wide line, so no way a laser powerful enough + batteries required would fit in this size. Also imagine the smell of burned hair when shaving  :).

 

>:D

 

Offline android

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Re: Shaving with laser?
« Reply #6 on: September 22, 2015, 06:24:22 pm »
Yes, the classic warning label "Do not look into LASER beam with remaining eye" would be particularly appropriate in this case I think.
Lecturer: "There is no language in which a double positive implies a negative."
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Offline Psi

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Re: Shaving with laser?
« Reply #7 on: September 22, 2015, 06:42:26 pm »
i cant see this being real. To cut hair fast enough and with a wide enough beam would require a lot of power
Greek letter 'Psi' (not Pounds per Square Inch)
 

Offline GNU_Ninja

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Re: Shaving with laser?
« Reply #8 on: September 22, 2015, 06:43:32 pm »
And if you stick a http://batteriser.com/ in it it shaves up to 800% 80% closer  ;D
« Last Edit: September 22, 2015, 06:45:07 pm by GNU_Ninja »
 

Offline hayatepilot

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Re: Shaving with laser?
« Reply #9 on: September 22, 2015, 07:06:42 pm »
From the comments section:
Quote
Justin
@Creator
Assuming the laser will have the life span you suggest (50000+ hours) will the battery be replacable? As that will probably go well before the laser.
Quote
Skarp Technologies

Hi Justin,

the battery will not user replaceable, but with normal usage it should last 10 years
.

Yeah riiiight....  :palm: :palm: :palm:
100% scam.  :-DD

Greetings
« Last Edit: September 22, 2015, 07:08:54 pm by hayatepilot »
 

Offline fcb

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Re: Shaving with laser?
« Reply #10 on: September 22, 2015, 07:08:47 pm »
Putting aside the practical reasons this might not work. There's no way they can make the timescales or for the price in small quantities. The amount the are trying to raise is tiny cf. what they will need.

If they get it to market i'll happily queue all night and spend a couple of hundred £ on one.
 

Offline tggzzz

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Re: Shaving with laser?
« Reply #11 on: September 22, 2015, 08:26:52 pm »
Yes, the classic warning label "Do not look into LASER beam with remaining eye" would be particularly appropriate in this case I think.

Ah, someone else who remembers that!
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
Gliding aphorism: "there is no substitute for span". Retort: "There is a substitute: skill+imagination. But you can buy span".
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Offline codeboy2k

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Re: Shaving with laser?
« Reply #12 on: September 22, 2015, 09:12:03 pm »
Their goal is too low to begin manufacturing this.  But they might already have a good chunk of the money from outside investors and just want to use KS to gauge the market.

The CEO guy is apparently deeply involved in laser hair removal and bio-medical devices in general, and has previously started at least one other company creating laser hair removal devices.  So he seemingly has the skills, knowledge, experience and industry contacts to make it work.

I googled around and he did a lot of previous work in developing laser dyes that could emit in the spectrum needed to target specific chromophores in the hair follicles for laser hair removal.  So I think his work here is refining that dye technology for light hair (the biggest problem) and then packaging it for consumer use. 

There are already home laser hair removal systems available, and the guy has the experience and connections to make it work, so I think they might actually succeed with this.  Still, I'm like fcb -- I'll wait to see if they get it to market.  If so, I'll surely buy one.
 

Offline mikerj

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Re: Shaving with laser?
« Reply #13 on: September 22, 2015, 09:21:34 pm »
Yes, the classic warning label "Do not look into LASER beam with remaining eye" would be particularly appropriate in this case I think.

Ah, someone else who remembers that!

I have mikeselectricstuff laser hazard sign as my desktop background at work.  It's raised many smiles, especially as my boss does the laser safety training :)

A ten year battery life for a device powering a cutting laser used for several minutes everyday seems far fetched to put it mildly, unless they forgot to mention the battery isn't shown in the prototype pictures and is actually the size of a house brick.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2015, 09:24:02 pm by mikerj »
 

Offline wraper

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Re: Shaving with laser?
« Reply #14 on: September 22, 2015, 09:36:47 pm »
Their goal is too low to begin manufacturing this.  But they might already have a good chunk of the money from outside investors and just want to use KS to gauge the market.

The CEO guy is apparently deeply involved in laser hair removal and bio-medical devices in general, and has previously started at least one other company creating laser hair removal devices.  So he seemingly has the skills, knowledge, experience and industry contacts to make it work.

I googled around and he did a lot of previous work in developing laser dyes that could emit in the spectrum needed to target specific chromophores in the hair follicles for laser hair removal.  So I think his work here is refining that dye technology for light hair (the biggest problem) and then packaging it for consumer use. 

There are already home laser hair removal systems available, and the guy has the experience and connections to make it work, so I think they might actually succeed with this.  Still, I'm like fcb -- I'll wait to see if they get it to market.  If so, I'll surely buy one.
Killing hair follicles with laser is not the same as burning the hair into the halves. Also that procedure is painful and causes skin irritation.
 

Offline firewalker

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Re: Shaving with laser?
« Reply #15 on: September 22, 2015, 09:39:10 pm »
Is there a way to red flag it with KickStarter?

Alexander.
Become a realist, stay a dreamer.

 

Offline bigdawg

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Re: Shaving with laser?
« Reply #16 on: September 22, 2015, 10:12:26 pm »
If it is powerful enough to burn the hair, it is powerful enough to burn the skin too. Extremely dangerous to the eyes too. It would never pass safety approvals. Blatant scam. Regarding to the power, it's not even focused in one point but rather wide line, so no way a laser powerful enough + batteries required would fit in this size. Also imagine the smell of burned hair when shaving  :).

You raise all the excellent points. I have extensive experience with high powered lazers for spectroscopy and I cannot imagine any kind of lasers in the market right now which is powerful enough to burn the hair as closely as a traditional mach3 (forget the 5 blade ones) yet compact enough not to use an external power source.

If indeed, this laser is that powerful, than I would argue this guy is in the wrong business; he should contact us for just selling his lasers.
 

Offline ferrix

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Re: Shaving with laser?
« Reply #17 on: September 23, 2015, 12:01:36 am »
Yes, the classic warning label "Do not look into LASER beam with remaining eye" would be particularly appropriate in this case I think.

Ah, someone else who remembers that!

Yeah instead of "DANGER" at the top it said "DANG!"
 

Offline matseng

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Re: Shaving with laser?
« Reply #18 on: September 23, 2015, 12:16:34 am »
Quote
After years of research & development, they discovered a chromophore in the hair that would be cut when hit with a particular light wavelength.
It must be a very lucky coincidence that this very specific frequency happens to fall right at one of the very narrow frequency bands that solid state diode lasers can lase at. They for sure ain't using a tuneable dye laser in that small handheld unit.
 

Online Marco

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Re: Shaving with laser?
« Reply #19 on: September 23, 2015, 12:24:38 am »
IPL dumps large amounts of energy in skin rather arbitrarily and manages to still mostly affect hairs follicles, so I don't see why this should be impossible as a given.

Lets theorize how this could work. Tightly wound fiber laser for the optical power. The stem and the flat "blade" are actually integrated optics to spread out the beam in 2D, the edge of the blade is essentially a rod lens. As for safety, maybe they can use "eyesafe" IR? (ie. medium penetration depth, doesn't dump it all on the cornea, nor all on the retina).
 

Offline bigdawg

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Re: Shaving with laser?
« Reply #20 on: September 23, 2015, 12:57:39 am »
IPL dumps large amounts of energy in skin rather arbitrarily and manages to still mostly affect hairs follicles, so I don't see why this should be impossible as a given.

Lets theorize how this could work. Tightly wound fiber laser for the optical power. The stem and the flat "blade" are actually integrated optics to spread out the beam in 2D, the edge of the blade is essentially a rod lens. As for safety, maybe they can use "eyesafe" IR? (ie. medium penetration depth, doesn't dump it all on the cornea, nor all on the retina).

I am not saying that using lasers to burn off the hair is an impossible feat of science. Ofcourse, we can do it using existing lasers with benchtop PSU. What I am saying is that having a laser powerful enough to do that AND be powered using non rechargeble battery pack is such a compact form factor is truly a feat of engineering.

Moreover, have you ever played with a high powered laser to burn off the hair like in their video? I have used it on my arms, and I can tell you that the smell of burning hair is very unpleasant. Secondly, the "shave" you get is nowhere as close as my braun electric shaver which in itself is pretty bad compared to a wet shave from a Gillette razor. Thirdly, how do you minimize the irritation/laser burn.

Quotes like these by the backers on KS's comments section makes me skeptical:

Quote

Hi Justin,
the battery will not user replaceable, but with normal usage it should last 10 years.

« Last Edit: September 23, 2015, 01:01:17 am by bigdawg »
 

Offline bigdawg

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Re: Shaving with laser?
« Reply #21 on: September 23, 2015, 01:12:02 am »
Is there a way to red flag it with KickStarter?

Alexander.

I am thinking about making the lowest pledge so that I can get full access by being a "backer" and poke holes at their "invention". This is the patent http://www.google.com/patents/US9017322 and after reading the whole thing, there is no shred of the technological breakthrough in any of the 24 claims. In fact it seems like the only reason they bothered to file a patent was to use it as a marketing ploy for the KS campaign.
 

Online Marco

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Re: Shaving with laser?
« Reply #22 on: September 23, 2015, 01:24:34 am »
Moreover, have you ever played with a high powered laser to burn off the hair like in their video? I have used it on my arms, and I can tell you that the smell of burning hair is very unpleasant.

It's a bulk effect though, they aim to destroy the follicle. This device would aim to just sever the hair near the skin.

Quote
Thirdly, how do you minimize the irritation/laser burn.

You would focus the laser from a device like this in a fundamentally different way than the long term hair removal devices, the severity of heating/tissue damage remains to be seen.
 

Offline Kjelt

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Re: Shaving with laser?
« Reply #23 on: September 23, 2015, 01:27:03 am »
I find it suspicious that in the movie there are three guys that are NOT clean shaven, two even have beards and don't shave at all  :-//
 

Offline GNU_Ninja

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Re: Shaving with laser?
« Reply #24 on: September 23, 2015, 01:29:43 am »
I find it suspicious that in the movie there are three guys that are NOT clean shaven, two even have beards and don't shave at all  :-//

Maybe they're all growing beards so they can "demo" the device in a follow up video  ;D
 


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