Author Topic: Chip Printing!  (Read 5028 times)

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Offline yanir

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Offline Len

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Re: Chip Printing!
« Reply #1 on: April 09, 2013, 08:37:35 pm »
Quote
If perfected, it could lead to desktop manufacturing plants that “print” the circuitry for a wide array of electronic devices
So, no.
 

Offline yanir

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Re: Chip Printing!
« Reply #2 on: April 09, 2013, 08:38:58 pm »
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If perfected, it could lead to desktop manufacturing plants that “print” the circuitry for a wide array of electronic devices
So, no.

Hey, give it a chance, I think in the last amphour Chris was shooting for a solution in 5-10 years.
 

Offline Marco

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Re: Chip Printing!
« Reply #3 on: April 09, 2013, 08:53:18 pm »
This is mostly about making active backplanes AFAICS. Yes chips are getting printed, but not in the way you mean ... the print process is a pick and place process, it doesn't manufacture the chip.

PS. for HF analog circuit experimentation it might be interesting as well.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2013, 08:57:03 pm by Marco »
 

Offline Len

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Re: Chip Printing!
« Reply #4 on: April 09, 2013, 08:54:48 pm »
Hey, give it a chance, I think in the last amphour Chris was shooting for a solution in 5-10 years.
In other words: No, he hasn't won the bet. I'm not denying him the chance to win in 5-10 years.

(Man, things are gonna be great in 5-10 years. No more cancer, free fusion power, artificial intelligence, flying cars, a good Star Wars sequel...  ;D )
 

Offline yanir

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Re: Chip Printing!
« Reply #5 on: April 09, 2013, 09:05:19 pm »
This is mostly about making active backplanes AFAICS. Yes chips are getting printed, but not in the way you mean ... the print process is a pick and place process, it doesn't manufacture the chip.

PS. for HF analog circuit experimentation it might be interesting as well.

I didn't mean anything in particular. Just wanted to share something. But I think the point is bringing the manufacture of IC's to the desktop. It doesn't really matter what technology is used to accomplish this. It's equally game changing.
 

Offline Marco

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Re: Chip Printing!
« Reply #6 on: April 09, 2013, 09:38:07 pm »
But I think the point is bringing the manufacture of IC's to the desktop.
For digital circuits for which spatial dimensions are not relevant (ie. not active backplanes, which is the most relevant application for this technology) it really won't ...

Sure compared to normal PCBs/substrates the level of integration possible with this Pick and Place technology is many times better, but compared to the integration of deep sub micron it's still pathetic. Most of the time there will be nothing to be gained for digital circuits by dicing up a Silicon wafer and then trying to put it back together again in a different configuration, easier to just make part of the wiring configurable (ie. a FPGA or a CMP).

It might bring the manufacture of hybrid MICs to the very expensive desktops of a couple of HF designers ... that's about it.
Quote
It doesn't really matter what technology is used to accomplish this. It's equally game changing.
This doesn't change the game any more than the ability to make a microcontroller out of discrete logic chips ...
« Last Edit: April 09, 2013, 09:40:46 pm by Marco »
 

Offline ChrisGammell

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Re: Chip Printing!
« Reply #7 on: April 09, 2013, 09:53:59 pm »
No, sorry chaps. Nothing has been "won".

This kind of tech is going to have a slow ramp. Give it time.
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: Chip Printing!
« Reply #8 on: April 09, 2013, 11:23:44 pm »
Has Chris won the debate?

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/09/science/tiny-chiplets-are-a-new-level-of-micro-manufacturing.html?_r=0

 :-DD
Not even close.
Most people have forgotten what Chris's original claim is.

For Chris to win, it's not just about having a chip printing machine, you also have to have:
- a way to package and protect those chips into usable standard packages
- a way to test and characterise those chips
- a community that has hundreds of thousands of proven designs (like thingiverse, but much much bigger)

And a way to do all of the above for a similar price and availability to getting your fully packaged, fully tested, fully characterised, and fully production ready $1 chip from Digikey

It is pure fantasy land  :-DD
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: Chip Printing!
« Reply #9 on: April 09, 2013, 11:25:42 pm »
It's equally game changing.

For a few small niches, yes, possibly. For the general industry, no, not even close.
The devil is in the detail, as always.
 

Offline JoannaK

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Re: Chip Printing!
« Reply #10 on: April 11, 2013, 02:13:26 pm »
I don't understand why one would want to print replicas of the existing cheap chips.. There are plenty potential uses for chips that aren't available from Digikey at 1$ range (or even 100$).

Ok.. For one exception. If you happen to be (for example) at Mars.. No matter how cheap the chip is at the earth-bound factory, the delivery time/cost makes local manufacturing more or less mandatory.
 

Offline Orpheus

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Re: Chip Printing!
« Reply #11 on: April 16, 2013, 06:23:08 am »
I'm a big fan of Chris' hypothesis, BUT I always tell people "Can you think of one good reason why your first 5 years of experience with building, maintaining, and modifying a first- or second- gen CNC, 3D printer, Xerox copier in active service etc?" At this point they usually protest that they've never done any of that "but they've used them" or worse "have theoretical access to one".

One of the great things about hacker spaces is that you can use such a machine without building, maintaining and modifying it at a level of weekly usage that makes it worthwhile to own. If you want to get that experience, volunteer at a busy hackerspace like mine. You'll quickly learn that 3-D printing "isn't quite here" for routine hobbyist use, even more than, say Linux "isn't quite ready for the casual user's desktop" after 20+years. Don't get me wrong -- I love 3D printing and Linux, and it's hard for me to imagine (sometimes) why it isn't ready for others, but there's a big/learning development curve at each installation, personal or public, and it's not trivial.

So even when chip printing "is here", it won't be "here" for 5+ more years. 10 years, if it keeps chasing the latest promising technology vs completely maturing the last. Flint-knapping is a mature technology, but not many ever mastered it, even among cavemen.
 

Offline peter.mitchell

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Re: Chip Printing!
« Reply #12 on: April 16, 2013, 08:11:41 am »
I don't understand why one would want to print replicas of the existing cheap chips.. There are plenty potential uses for chips that aren't available from Digikey at 1$ range (or even 100$).

Ok.. For one exception. If you happen to be (for example) at Mars.. No matter how cheap the chip is at the earth-bound factory, the delivery time/cost makes local manufacturing more or less mandatory.


For some reason I imagined a circus cannon stuffed with 7805s firing into the sky...
 


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