Bench computer: Linux workable, or need Windows?

[jmelson]

I do almost everything on Linux here, but also use VirtualBox to run my old CAD system (Protel 99SE).  That's about the only thing I need Windows for that is electronics-related.

Jon

[rstofer]

Linux is quite popular, after 30 years it has made it to 2% of desktops.

Simple solution:  Use Linux until you find something you can't do without Windows.  Then decide if what you want to do justifies buying a Windows laptop.

[perieanuo]

A novice but lucky enough to have space for a dedicated bench to play on, I am trying to build one up. One of the things I am trying to figure out is what kind of operating system I should run on my bench computer. I use this system to read web pages and PDF files, simple serial connections and to connect test gear to. For example, a logic analyzer, multimeter and oscilloscope.

that linux vs windows crap is just stupid. like the analog supply vs smps.
every time i tested linux for electronics was a no-go. you put a new device into your usb, you got problems. and you spend hours in terminal
so i use win and vm's with all kind of OSes, everything works at first start, including surveillance solutions where all linuxes falls short, but really short. but you need a powerful pc, but it's the same if you want linux as native os and win in virtualbox.
windows license now is 10 bucks. you don't wanna be spied, put some pfsense and that's it. or work in vm, no network attached, whatever os you love.
so if you want just the stuff to be operational, put powerful machine with win and use vm for *nix/linux
for the heaters, i worked sysadmin for linux for some years (i also do manage linuxes now in several locations), my pc's are win or mixed, but win is already there, ALL my clients had ALSO windows stations, office licenses etc. every one of them...

[tooki]

My 2¢ as a Mac user (which in terms of engineering software is in a very similar situation to Linux: some stuff available, including practically all the open source stuff, the rest available via wine or VirtualBox): you can do it, but it’s less hassle on Windows.

[james_s]

This doesn't have to be a major life decision that you have to stick to forever. My suggestion is to use what you have for now, and then if you ever find that it is not meeting your needs then consider upgrading at that point to something that does. I still use Win7 on my main laptop because I like it and it works well, but as I mentioned I have Ubuntu on an older laptop that I use on my bench and that works absolutely fine. I simply have not seen the problems that some report, hardware like USB devices you plug it in and it just works, just like Windows. Things have come a long way in the past 20 years or so. Occasionally you will find some software you need that requires Windows and that's a good reason to get something that runs it. Some Windows-only software can be made to run on Linux but it's an uphill battle.

[wizard69]

As mentioned way above this post it really depends upon you and the software you want to use.   If you are really hung up on one software package that only runs on operating system XX then you will need to run XX in some manner.

Now for a different point of view, I run Linux and MacOS for my personal needs and Windows at work.   Since I work in industrial automation, I'm often running obscure software packages to connect to some weird controller.   Here is the sad thing, if you work on legacy hardware, Windows today doesn't support legacy any better than Linux or MacOS.   We literally keep old laptops around just to run old applications that need an old Windows and a 32 bit environment.   With modern Windows you also have a crap load of bugs and poor design decisions to deal with.   From my perspective Windows is measurably worse than it has historically been.

So I'd go with Linux on a bench before I'd even consider Windows.   The exception being the  case where you absolutely are certain a specific software package you need runs on only Windows.   

Is Linux perfect?  Nope.   However with Wine it is almost better that Windows for legacy support.   More importantly Linux is built around the needs of developers, as such it is great for personal development projects.   For me this is key, if there is a language you like, it is most likely supported on Linux.   Then there is library support for those languages.

As far as native electrical engineering software for Linux I would say it is spotty at best.   That doesn't mean there is none or that it is poor quality, you just will not be flooded with a selection of high quality native products.    As mentioned by others, a lot of the commercial software can run under Wine or in a VM on Linux.

As for Mac OS, being UNIX underneath it shares a lot with Linux when it comes to usability.    Open source is almost as good under Mac OS and there is a bit more commercial engineering software running on Mac OS.    Currently the problem with Mac is the lack of I/O for the reasonably priced hardware.   However the new M1 Macs are nearly silent while outperforming most machines in their class.   Also Mac OS is extremely stable, somewhat better than Linux and light years ahead of Windows.   If you need a laptop I'd consider Mac OS on an Apple Silicon.    At the bench though you really don't want a laptop if it can be avoided.   I'd go for a desktop of some sort, a small form factor if you don't need expansion cards and obviously a machine with slots if you expect to expand in that way.

You might also want to consider the single board ARM computers out there.   Lots of low cost I/O card and if you blow them up you are not out a lot of money.   Performance isn't that bad either. 

@CatalinaWOW: none of the comments re. Windows before comment #15 were towards users needing to “get over it”, but simply stated a move from Windows to Linux. Not sure why that’s “interesting”, but there ya go.

Thanks for your recommendation nonetheless!

[m3vuv]

I would rather a full frontal lobotomy performed with a rusty hacksaw than use linux on my workbench!!

[Simon]

It is clearly pointless asking on a forum whether to use windows or linux. I have tried linux several times and just gone back to windows as I found it more effort than reward. I'm not interested in becoming an expert in whatever OS I use, I expect it to just work and run my applications, just like I expect to get into my car each morning and drive to work rather than revel in getting to work 2 hours late because I spent 2 hours sorting out a problem with the car and I'm so pleased I did it myself.

Windows is crap too particularly in the way they treat you but at the end of the day it works and I don't find 10 different solutions to every problem of which only 1 works this time.

At the end of the day it is personal preference. Linux is based on the whole open source do it yourself mantra of every person being a programmer, that is why there is no standard and why it will never have wide adoption. Sure it runs every server on the planet, but then if you have a look at the majority of servers they are probably running cPanel which is a standard and commercially maintained, sure built on free software but they fixed the bugs and keep them fixed. Other wide uses of linux will be where it makes sense due to the scale of the project and there is a commercial interest in making it work at scale.

This dream of a cottage industry of people making up their own OS that is just what they wanted is just that for most people.

[m3vuv]

It is clearly pointless asking on a forum whether to use windows or linux. I have tried linux several times and just gone back to windows as I found it more effort than reward. I'm not interested in becoming an expert in whatever OS I use, I expect it to just work and run my applications, just like I expect to get into my car each morning and drive to work rather than revel in getting to work 2 hours late because I spent 2 hours sorting out a problem with the car and I'm so pleased I did it myself.

Windows is crap too particularly in the way they treat you but at the end of the day it works and I don't find 10 different solutions to every problem of which only 1 works this time.,

At the end of the day it is personal preference. Linux is based on the whole open source do it yourself mantra of every person being a programmer, that is why there is no standard and why it will never have wide adoption. Sure it runs every server on the planet, but then if you have a look at the majority of servers they are probably running cPanel which is a standard and commercially maintained, sure built on free software but they fixed the bugs and keep them fixed. Other wide uses of linux will be where it makes sense due to the scale of the project and there is a commercial interest in making it work at scale.

This dream of a cottage industry of people making up their own OS that is just what they wanted is just that for most people.

well said i realy think linux is for ppl with more time on there hands battling with it than sense,ok its good for specific tasks but  feel ppl who like to use it for everyday computor tasks either need to see A shrink  or B get out more often,i dont like microshite but find it on the grand scale of doing things on a pc streets ahead of windows unless its say its to one task as part of an industrial operation specific process on a dedicated machine,just my twopence worth!.

[artag]

My desktop is my workbench - so my default computer is also my workbench computer.
It's debian linux. I did used to occasionaly run Windows in a VM but haven't done that for a couple of years now.  Every tool I normally use runs fine, though I guess that's a bit self-selecting as I don't tend to buy things that are windows-only.

I do have old laptops that can be booted into XP or W7 for legacy stuff, but it's rare I need them. Definitely wouldn't give it permanent space on the workbench.

[blurpy]

Linux works great for me on the bench. Like every other hardware purchase for my computer, I make sure it works on Linux first. That's something one gets used to. And it's no different with electronics equipment or software. If I need/want equipment that integrates with a computer then compatibility with Linux is included in the requirements list. Some equipment might be excluded because of that, but I haven't found it to be a problem.

Some equipment might have unofficial open source software, like the mentioned TL866 programmer and the minipro software, that works fine for me. Others expose a web interface and a standardized SCPI-interface, like some Siglent gear. And others like the QA401 audio analyzer might have official software that's just an API and no user interface. So I made my own UI: https://github.com/blurpy/qa401w

I find that sort of thing fun though. YMMV

[brucehoult]

The computer on my bench is an old Core 2 Duo laptop with 8GB RAM and an SSD. It is blazing fast running Debian and honestly I'm super happy with that. I also thought to run Windows inside a virtual machine, but when trying that using VirtualBox and Windows 10 a few days ago, the vm was unusably slow.

I don't know why you'd want Windows 10 in a VM. Is there any Windows software you need that actually needs newer than XP SP3? Or maybe Server 2003 -- that's what I was using in VirtualBox on a Core 2 Duo Mac in 2006-2008 to do *all* my work at one company, as it was slimmer. I'm pretty sure that machine only supported 4 GB RAM maximum.

Sure it's old unsupported software and vulnerable, but you can just use Linux to firewall the shit out of it and it's fine.

The advantage of VirtualBox (or others) is that you can map things such as USB ports through to Windows, while with WSL2 on Windows you can't access USB from Linux.

[Jwillis]

Linux and Mac are both Unix based operating systems . Most research and development will use UNIX simply because it's more stable than Windows . But in the end it boils down to application and what software is available. If your just using it to monitor data from a piece of equipment then most likely you'll find Windows software for that purpose . If your intent is research and development then Unix or a Unix based system would probably be more practical because you would need to develop the software as your going . Having a stable operating system just makes more sense . 

Just to add . Windows has mostly been  dedicated towards gaming and other entertainment . Mac has for many years been mostly dedicated towards music and visual arts . Where as UNIX has mostly been dedicated towards science and technology .       

[BradC]

It is clearly pointless asking on a forum whether to use windows or linux.

It's not really pointless if you are after a varied breadth of opinion and experience. In fact it's what a forum is really about. We understand you couldn't make it work, but you are but one data point in a great pool of experience.

There are many of us who have used it on the desktop for 25+ years and it works for us. Doesn't really matter what you use, there is some form of learning curve and maintenance involved. Personally I found the time I needed to spend on keeping Linux happy was less than the time I needed to spend on Windows maintenance, so it was a no-brainer for me but I acknowledge everyone is different.

Linux is user friendly, it's just choosy about who it's friends are.

[HobGoblyn]

I use both, if i didn’t use certain music packages that aren’t available for Linux I would stick with Linux, as it is I use win 10 pro.

I worked as a system analyst for many years mainly on Unix/Aix/Sunos so Linux is second nature to me

A few years ago on previous versions of windows, I could just  be persuaded that a Linux desktop is a better solution for the average user, when Windows was often crashing and needing a reboot after installing every other bit of software.

I honestly believe that for the average non computer literate user, Linux is now a bad choice. Again years ago, when installing windows, constant blue screens, constant driver problems, constant rebooting etc then Linux was a good bet.  But now, on Windows, unless you’ve got obscure bits of hardware, the average user can simply turn it on and everything just works.  I currently believe Windows is a much easier system for the average non pc literate user to use.

Linux is great IF you understand it, while admittedly I haven’t given it a go in the past couple of years,  last time I tried the well known and most recommended versions, installing them, installing extras, maintaining it, updating it was a far far more laborious job than the latest Windows.  it also insisted on rebooting far more after various software installs. I got slated as a windows fanboy when I said this  on a Linux forum,

Wine  etc is great when it works, again I can usually get most things working under wine if I spend the time and effort (time and effort that’s not needed on Windows), but when I used to do this and played some online games, an update would come  out for the game, all my Window friends are logged in playing the update, but wine won’t run the updated version. If you are the average user, that sort of thing is simply no good for you.

While win 10 might be bloated, I can’t remember the last time it crashed, very very rarely does it need rebooting after a software install, antivirus engine updates being the main culprit.

While I have zero problems with running Linux, I also have zero problems running windows, I used to dual boot, and it got to the point of why bother, I need windows for certain hardware/software so just use that.

For music I use Native Instruments Komplete, Arturia V collection and Spectronics Omnisphere. None of these offer Linux support, they are very expensive software packages, and while a few people claim to have successfully found a wrapper to get them working under Linux, if you contact support with a question about something, if you’re on Linux, they aren’t interested. They do all work on a Mac though so that’s always a possibility next time I upgrade.

If ever it gets to the stage where all my software has native Linux versions, I would switch to Linux in a second, but until then it’s simply too much hassle for me.

[HobGoblyn]

It is clearly pointless asking on a forum whether to use windows or linux.

It's not really pointless if you are after a varied breadth of opinion and experience. In fact it's what a forum is really about. We understand you couldn't make it work, but you are but one data point in a great pool of experience.

There are many of us who have used it on the desktop for 25+ years and it works for us. Doesn't really matter what you use, there is some form of learning curve and maintenance involved. Personally I found the time I needed to spend on keeping Linux happy was less than the time I needed to spend on Windows maintenance, so it was a no-brainer for me but I acknowledge everyone is different.

Linux is user friendly, it's just choosy about who it's friends are.

Agreed. But for many people, they aren’t interested in a learning curve, for them, learning how to open email, Facebook, YouTube and google is the only learning they want.

I have many friends like this, if when they shut their pc down it says an update is available, they just click on shutdown and update, and forget about it (amount of times I go to help someone and windows, antivirus etc hasn’t been updated in months is mind boggling, as far as they are concerned, it was working and the update messages were another unwanted pop up they simply closed).

Saying that, the learning curve for windows (and Linux) isn’t what it used to be. If people I know can’t cope with windows, I don’t think most would cope with Linux either. They are used to tablets that just work and they expect their PCs to do the same.

I’m the one that has to go and fix them when something does go wrong, 95% it’s user error, but I know that while Linux would be perfect for their usage, my phone calls would increase 10 fold.

Many years ago a friend called me because their PC had slowed to a crawl. Took me hours to sort it out, they had no virus checker, a ton of viruses and Trojan’s. Got it working, two days later got a call from the same friend, PCs acting up again.

Bearing in mind I explained why their PC wasn’t working the first time and I had installed an antivirus on it, I looked at their Pc, looked at the antivirus and said the following.

 “Why is the Antivirus disabled?”
Their response “I disabled it because it wouldn’t let me download something I wanted”

Can you imagine them trying to get to grips with Linux

[BradC]

Can you imagine them trying to get to grips with Linux

Nope, but then they're probably also not posting questions on an electronics forum. This isn't about "many people", it's about someone asking questions on a technical forum. With some notable (and prolific) exceptions, there is generally a basic "barrier to entry" there which implies a certain level of technical understanding/ability.

[brucehoult]

Many years ago a friend called me because their PC had slowed to a crawl. Took me hours to sort it out, they had no virus checker, a ton of viruses and Trojan’s. Got it working, two days later got a call from the same friend, PCs acting up again.

Bearing in mind I explained why their PC wasn’t working the first time and I had installed an antivirus on it, I looked at their Pc, looked at the antivirus and said the following.

 “Why is the Antivirus disabled?”
Their response “I disabled it because it wouldn’t let me download something I wanted”

Can you imagine them trying to get to grips with Linux

Well, they wouldn't have any problems with viruses or trojans, for a start...

[bill_c]

"I use this system to read web pages"
   You can do that with Linux, several browsers to pick from.
"and PDF files"
   You can do that with Linux too.
"simple serial connections"
   You can do that with Linux too. I have no problem using USB to serial cables. I use a mico programmer too, but like below, may depend on model.
"and to connect test gear to"
   May depend on the gear, do a search for the model and add the word linux, should be able to find the information you need.
I have been using Linux only for several years and I have no reason to need windows. I use browser, email, CAD, photo editing, making PDFs, writing documents, spreadsheets, writing programs, virtual machines, VNC, ...

[jmelson]

The advantage of VirtualBox (or others) is that you can map things such as USB ports through to Windows, while with WSL2 on Windows you can't access USB from Linux.

Yes!  This works amazingly well!  I have an old Xeltek device programmer that interfaces through the parallel port.  You need to set up some options in VirtualBox to enable virtualizing the parallel port, but it actually WORKS to program EPROMS and such devices.  It also makes USB devices available virtually.  You can also print to network printers from the virtual machine.

Jon

[Simon]

It is clearly pointless asking on a forum whether to use windows or linux.

It's not really pointless if you are after a varied breadth of opinion and experience. In fact it's what a forum is really about. We understand you couldn't make it work, but you are but one data point in a great pool of experience.

There are many of us who have used it on the desktop for 25+ years and it works for us. Doesn't really matter what you use, there is some form of learning curve and maintenance involved. Personally I found the time I needed to spend on keeping Linux happy was less than the time I needed to spend on Windows maintenance, so it was a no-brainer for me but I acknowledge everyone is different.

Linux is user friendly, it's just choosy about who it's friends are.

It's nothing to do with my experience. everyone will have an opinion and in the end it's the person asking that needs to know which will work for them. Ask just gets you a flame war of windows versus linux. i have not read every post but not yet seen anyone ask what the OP wants to do, just recomendations based on their own experience.

[Monkeh]

Ask just gets you a flame war of windows versus linux.

One you're apparently happy to contribute to..

[james_s]

well said i realy think linux is for ppl with more time on there hands battling with it than sense,ok its good for specific tasks but  feel ppl who like to use it for everyday computor tasks either need to see A shrink  or B get out more often,i dont like microshite but find it on the grand scale of doing things on a pc streets ahead of windows unless its say its to one task as part of an industrial operation specific process on a dedicated machine,just my twopence worth!.

I have a feeling you have never used Linux and are just parroting what you heard somewhere. My computer illiterate elderly mother has been using Ubuntu on her laptop for about 5 years now precisely because I was tired of spending time fixing her Windows machine. For the stuff she does it just works, if I hadn't told her it was Linux I'm pretty certain she would not even notice and would have assumed it was just some new version of Windows. If all you need is a web browser, a word processor and media player software the OS is irrelevant.

[Simon]

Ask just gets you a flame war of windows versus linux.

One you're apparently happy to contribute to..

I did point out that it is down to personal choice and explained my experience and where it is likely to work. All others have done is state their opinion with no qualification. So far the opinion is linux is great it is the only way.

I am not adverse to linux for example in my last job we were getting softeare developed that would allow a laptop to talk to our devices, my suggestion to get around the user having to go through a convoluted licensing procedure was to send them it all setup on a linux virtual machine or send them a real cheap laptop we may never get back with linux on it to run this thing to make it a dedicated machine.

[Simon]

well said i realy think linux is for ppl with more time on there hands battling with it than sense,ok its good for specific tasks but  feel ppl who like to use it for everyday computor tasks either need to see A shrink  or B get out more often,i dont like microshite but find it on the grand scale of doing things on a pc streets ahead of windows unless its say its to one task as part of an industrial operation specific process on a dedicated machine,just my twopence worth!.

I have a feeling you have never used Linux and are just parroting what you heard somewhere. My computer illiterate elderly mother has been using Ubuntu on her laptop for about 5 years now precisely because I was tired of spending time fixing her Windows machine. For the stuff she does it just works, if I hadn't told her it was Linux I'm pretty certain she would not even notice and would have assumed it was just some new version of Windows. If all you need is a web browser, a word processor and media player software the OS is irrelevant.

And as you yourself pointed out she just does web stuff, if all I did was email and web browsing plus some office stuff I would happily use linux too. but the moment I am trying to get less conventional software it becomes a pain so I go with what works.