Choosing a CRO: Hitachi V-222 or TEK 465

[reese69]

Hi everyone, Thank you for your collective knowledge.  I am just starting out.  I plan to tinker mostly with audio gear.  Eventually I will probably get a digital oscilloscope, probably an SDS1104X-E.  But for now I’d like to get a CRO to practice on before spending that much cash.  I am interested in two scopes that are listed on ebay locally. 

One is a Hitachi V-222, listed as being in excellent working condition, with probes and power cable.  It is listed as bidding starting at $100.00, with no bids so far.  The other is a Tektronix 465, listed as parts only, with two probes.  The pictures of the TEK show only two horizontal traces and seller says no further testing done.  A sticker on the back is barely legible, but seems to say “Calibration: Standoff ___ ___ Broken.”  It is listed for $195, but the seller has offered it to me for $160.

I am leaning toward the Hitachi.  I know it is a much less capable scope, being only 20 MHz.  But it seems to be well regarded on this forum.  I see that the TEK is very highly regarded here and is a much more powerful instrument.  But I am concerned that it will have problems that I am not equipped to handle.  I’d appreciate anyone’s thoughts.  Thank you!

[EEVblog]

The Hitachi is an excellent analog scope, Smaller, lighter, simpler, newer, so I'd go with that.
A "powerful" analog scope isn't much extra benefit these days, best to just get a cheap simple analog scope to begin with and then move to digital later. 20MHz is plenty useful.
Yes, the Tek's are fairly notrious for having issues, and given that it's older than the hitachi, there is way more chance the Hitachi works without issues.

This is $99 make an offer:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/144934850376?epid=1604087493

[jonpaul]

avoid 465, 475, all the HV transformers and multipliers fail eventually

Avoid buying or shipped any analog CRO scopes especially on epay, most arrived,damage controls, dead CRT.

Look at local Craigslist list, or Ham Radio Fleas

Jon

[EEVblog]

This GW looks like good value at $150, 100MHz with cursors readout.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/133331384514

[EEVblog]

The 2225 is an excellent scope too, $99, but I still think the GW Instek is better bang-per-buck.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/295508480572

[bdunham7]

I am leaning toward the Hitachi.  I know it is a much less capable scope, being only 20 MHz. 

I’d appreciate anyone’s thoughts.  Thank you!

I used to repair and sell scopes for a while and I got one of those Hitachi V222 models on a trade-in deal for a Tek 2235.  It actually is not a bad starter scope and I eventually sold it to someone who wanted it for audio repairs (non-RF) as well.  It wasn't difficult to repair and it has a linear power supply, so it is also pretty easy to understand and work on.  It has one unique feature, a large DC offset for CH1 that allows you to look at power rails and such without using AC coupling.  It also has Z-axis (blanking) for vector graphics and an 'alt mag' feature that is like a cheap B-sweep (no delay).  I sold it for a lot more than what they are asking in your auction, but of course they aren't providing any warranty or service.  I'd probably recommend it over your other choices if the 20MHz performance is acceptable. 

[EEVblog]

Just shot an updated $50 scope ebay video, editing now...

[EEVblog]

New video on this just for fun:

[tautech]

Hi everyone, Thank you for your collective knowledge.  I am just starting out.  I plan to tinker mostly with audio gear.  Eventually I will probably get a digital oscilloscope, probably an SDS1104X-E.  But for now I’d like to get a CRO to practice on before spending that much cash.  I am interested in two scopes that are listed on ebay locally. 

One is a Hitachi V-222, listed as being in excellent working condition, with probes and power cable.  It is listed as bidding starting at $100.00, with no bids so far.  The other is a Tektronix 465, listed as parts only, with two probes.  The pictures of the TEK show only two horizontal traces and seller says no further testing done.  A sticker on the back is barely legible, but seems to say “Calibration: Standoff ___ ___ Broken.”  It is listed for $195, but the seller has offered it to me for $160.

I am leaning toward the Hitachi.  I know it is a much less capable scope, being only 20 MHz.  But it seems to be well regarded on this forum.  I see that the TEK is very highly regarded here and is a much more powerful instrument.  But I am concerned that it will have problems that I am not equipped to handle.  I’d appreciate anyone’s thoughts.  Thank you!

Welcome to the forum.

Having come from where your are to now selling some of the best values for money DSO's today I say save your spend a little while longer to get the scope you really want as you'll never be disappointed with it and it's far more scope to grow into than a CRO can ever be !

Been there done that.
Good luck with your choices.

[reese69]

New video on this just for fun:

Hi David, Thanks so much for the video!  That, as well as the other comments from this community, are above and beyond the level of feedback I expected to receive.  The V-222 in your video is indeed the one I'm looking at.  But y'all've given me a lot to consider.

I've reached out to the seller of the V-222 to see if I can go look at it.  If I can actually put my hands on it and confirm that it works I might still go with it.  That way I'll get probes, a manual, and also save on the shipping costs (and the possibility of it getting broken during shipping).  But if I can't check it out ahead of time I might consider one of the other scopes in your video or something similar.

Again, thanks everyone!

-Scott

[tggzzz]

Hi everyone, Thank you for your collective knowledge.  I am just starting out.  I plan to tinker mostly with audio gear.  Eventually I will probably get a digital oscilloscope,

Any scope is better than no scope, but as with anything you will need to learn how to use it effectively.

For a beginner, the three most important things are

• the scope is working properly. While repair of some types of scope can be fun and rewarding, a beginner does not have the knowledge to diagnose and fix problems
• use the right class of probe for the measurements you are making. The probe becomes part of the circuit being tested, and affects what is being measured. No, they are not simple bits of wire!
• you learn how to use the instrument safely. There are things you can do that can damage the circuit, the scope, and you. Never never disconnect a scope's protective mains earth

For hints about probes and safety, see https://entertaininghacks.wordpress.com/library-2/scope-probe-reference-material/

If looking at audio signals with a digitizing scope, be aware of how the vertical quantization affects your measurements. An 8 bit ADC inherently has more noise than a 12 bit ADC. While that might not be visible in the time domain, if you use the FFT functions to look at the frequency domain, reduced resolution means a higher noise floor and worse harmonics.

Have fun, safely.

[Jwillis]

You won't go wrong with the Hitachi. I haven't used the V-222 but  I have two others . The V-1050F and V-650F.  The V-1050f I use as my main and prefer it to my DSO in most cases. The V-650f is under repair. But the parts and service manuals are really easy to find. Calibration is so easy and straight forward.
For the price  both were well worth it.

[rstofer]

A "parts only" scope is out of the question.  You are likely to need a scope to fix it!

About 20 years ago I bought a Tek 485 (350 MHz) off of eBay for about $200 and it still works.  I bought a Rigol DS1054Z for the more advanced features even though the bandwidth isn't nearly as high.  Sometimes you need features, sometimes you need bandwidth.  I don't use the Tek very often.

Today, I would buy the Siglent SDS1104X-E.  It wasn't available at the time I bought my Rigol.  The Siglent is a very nice scope.

[BillyO]

What, no love for the Tek 465?

I'm so sad 

One of my favorites and I still have one, still use it and it still works 100%.

But everyone is correct so far.  A Tek 465 in top shape goes for the price of an entry level DSO ($300+) these days.  IF your getting a CRO, get the cheapest working one you can get then move up to a DSO down the road.

[rdl]

I can hear one of those Tek 2225 scopes calling my name.

[EEVblog]

I can hear one of those Tek 2225 scopes calling my name.

I'd be surprised if they aren't gone shortly after the video I just released.

[alm]

I'm waiting for the posts to appear stating that it's stupid to buy an analog scope in 2023, because they are junk, and how a $50 digital scope is better than any analog scope

[donlisms]

I suspect most of the bad-mouthing of analog scopes (especially Tektronix!) is from people who've never used one.  I'm not ignorant of the digital advantages by any means, but I still prefer a pretty blue trace that's not made of pixels!  And fixing power supplies is good exercise.

[james_s]

The Tek 465 is a superb scope in working order and the Hitachi scopes I've used are also excellent. All else being equal I'd probably still choose the Tek because I've always been a Tek fan, however in this case it sounds like the Tek is broken and the Hitachi is in good working order. Given both are good scopes I'd go with the working one unless you're looking for a project instead of an instrument to use.

[reese69]

Hi All, I ended up picking up this Kikusui COS6100M for $70.00 locally.  It seems to work.  Now I have a lot to learn.  Thanks everyone for your help.

[wasedadoc]

Hi All, I ended up picking up this Kikusui COS6100M for $70.00 locally.  It seems to work.

You have not made a bad move doing that.

[coppice]

avoid 465, 475, all the HV transformers and multipliers fail eventually

I've heard that before. The 465 was the go to scope in the late 70s, when you wanted something robust and reliable for a few years, and they made excellent (and rather expensive) second hand purchases when 3 or 4 years old. Its interesting to contrast their short to medium term excellent robustness and reliability, with the long term tales of consistent failure mechanisms.

[bdunham7]

Now I have a lot to learn. 

Yes, you do!  That scope has some pretty advanced and unusual CRO features.  It also has an easy to understand and service linear power supply and the manual is available and I recommend you find it if you don't have it already.

[Wallace Gasiewicz]

I have a working Tek 475   200Mhz that I would let go for less than the $160. But shipping is really the problem.I am in Indianapolis IN

[BillyO]

avoid 465, 475, all the HV transformers and multipliers fail eventually

I've heard that before.

Of course you have.  Exactly the same thing can be said for every part of literally everything man has made.  It all fails eventually.  Even stone axes will fail.

The 465 and 475 ( and 485) scopes were pretty state of the art when the arrived.  Like anything of that nature they need occasional maintenance and repair.  They are still held in high regard today despite being a 53 year old design.  And some, like mine are still 100% meeting their specifications.  Do you think anyone will give a gnat's fart about a TDS1012B 33 years from now?