Choosing the right Siglent scope for hobby projects

[druantia]

Hi,

I want to invest in an oscilloscope for hobby purposes and I'm looking at the SDS800X series:
https://www.siglent.eu/oscilloscopes/sds800x-hd-series-new

Is it possible to buy the SDS804X HD 4CH 70MHz scope and upgrade it to 200MHZ? Can this be done with the newer series?
Of course, I would buy 200MHZ probes (https://www.siglent.eu/product/1262752/siglent-pp215-200mhz-1x-10x-attenuation-oscilloscope-probe)

[Solder_Junkie]

I don’t see an official upgrade to 200 MHz. Do you mean “is it hackable”? If it is hackable in software, can it be reversed if service is needed? Out of warranty it may be possible to open the case and alter the front end filtering to increase the bandwidth. Is there a transistor switch that changes a filter? you would need some reverse engineering, or at least a service manual, to see what is possible.

The probes that came with my Rigol scope are useless, not sure about those with Siglent scopes. I use 3rd party ones that came from RS Components some years ago. You may want to avoid paying extra for probes until you have tried the ones that come with the scope.

By the way, many wonder why I bought a 4 channel scope as old ones were usually only 2 channels. For the most part I only use one or two channels, but have found four channels useful… but only for one occasion several years ago, still 4 channels are nice to have.

SJ

[awakephd]

See this thread for details: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/unified-keygen-script-for-siglent/msg5554039/#msg5554039

Short answer is, yes - it is extremely easy to "upgrade" an SDS804X HD to 200 MHz. What you are doing is simply applying the appropriate license key to the scope - simply done through SCPI commands via the built-in web interface. No hardware changes needed; no need to open the case; no irreversible hacking.

The probes are not rated for 200MHz, but if you read around the forum, you will see some tests that suggest they perform adequately far beyond their rated specification; therefore you may want to do the upgrade first, and then determine whether you need to invest in different probes for your particular purpose.

[watchmaker]

^

[druantia]

Thanks, this was super helpful!!

[druantia]

By the way, this might be a rookie question, but I haven't found clear information about it. Will this upgrade increase the memory depth as well or just the bandwidth?

Also, has anyone tested whether the device is actually capable of 200MHz bandwidth and memory depth? Just because the device identifies itself as 824X doesn't necessarily mean it can achieve that.

[eTobey]

Also, has anyone tested whether the device is actually capable of 200MHz bandwidth and memory depth? Just because the device identifies itself as 824X doesn't necessarily mean it can achieve that.

There is not just the pure numbers, but also how it is implemented. For example: If you decrease the sample rate (less data to be saved) in that scope, then the trigger rate drops significantly. If you are out for hunting a glitch that happens only once in a while, then you are likely going to miss it.

Also it has some settling issue. After a bigger voltage step the settling takes up to 25ms. Its not that bad, but other scopes do much much better there!

Also it has other issues (see my signature).

[watchmaker]

Take the prior post with a BIG dose of salt.

Read this "last straw" reply to him in a thread dedicated to SD 820.  I have one and can see no path for me to outgrow it and there is a lot of support here for learning how to use it (search threads first though).

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds824-scope-any-good/msg5818807/#msg5818807

 

[eTobey]

Take the prior post with a BIG dose of salt.

One should take a post of a Siglent fanboy with an even bigger dose of salt.

Here is just one example of the denial of one individual:

Check this out:
The issue:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sds800x-hd-bugswanted-features/msg5422535/#msg5422535

They say no its not a bug:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sds800x-hd-bugswanted-features/msg5422937/#msg5422937

The bug was resolved by Siglent:
(See attachment)


Best thing is: one guy first confirmed the bug, but then denied it. Did he get some reward for a bugreport, or does he just have some issue?

[trilerian]

By the way, this might be a rookie question, but I haven't found clear information about it. Will this upgrade increase the memory depth as well or just the bandwidth?

Also, has anyone tested whether the device is actually capable of 200MHz bandwidth and memory depth? Just because the device identifies itself as 824X doesn't necessarily mean it can achieve that.

I have "upgraded" my SDS804 to an SDS824, and while I don't have the ability to test 200MHz, thanks to this thread https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/testing-the-new-siglent-sdg1022x-plus-output-100mhz!!/ I was able to make my "upgraded" SDG1022x plus put out a 110MHz sin wave.  The wave isn't perfect, but this isn't on the scope side.

Anyway, here is a pic that shows the scope model number and the wave. You can see the frequency as well.

[Grandchuck]

What watchmaker is referring to about the deep capabilities of this scope is detailed here:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sds800x-hd-review-demonstration-thread/

[druantia]

Its not that bad, but other scopes do much much better there!

I guess for a much much higher price
Btw you quoted my question, but you failed to answer it. My question was whether if I "upgrade" the 804 to 824, will it really be capable of the feature set of 824, or does the upgrade merely rewrite a product name string but in reality, it doesn't change anything.

Anyway, for what I want to do (just learning electronics ins general and implementing some of my not-so-complicated pet projects), this scope is already an overkill, so there is no way I'll outgrow this scope. And based on my research, I really like Siglent, so I'm sure I'll buy this boy, I just don't know exactly which model out of the 800x series.

I have "upgraded" my SDS804 to an SDS824, and while I don't have the ability to test 200MHz, thanks to this thread https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/testing-the-new-siglent-sdg1022x-plus-output-100mhz!!/ I was able to make my "upgraded" SDG1022x plus put out a 110MHz sin wave.  The wave isn't perfect, but this isn't on the scope side.

Anyway, here is a pic that shows the scope model number and the wave. You can see the frequency as well.

Thanks! So it seems it's not just about the product name, but after the upgrade, it is really identical to the 824x. Just to make sure, I'll ask around in that upgrade guide thread; maybe somebody did a thorough test about this. It's just hard to believe that there are absolutely no hardware differences between these models

[watchmaker]

It is all about locked software.  It is cheaper to manufacture that way.  But I doubt you will outgrow the 824 once you "unlock" it using the script posted here:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/unified-keygen-script-for-siglent/msg5554131/#msg5554131

[BillyO]

.. after the upgrade, it is really identical to the 824x. Just to make sure, I'll ask around in that upgrade guide thread; maybe somebody did a thorough test about this.

Yes it is.  100%.  Tested and verified.  Even with the stock probes it will go beyond 200MHz within 3dB.  It also unlocks the extra memory.  The only thing that does not match the SDS824 is the label on the front.

Ignore eTobey.  He seems to be suffering from "Why does it not work the way I want it to work!" and a serious case of finger trouble. 

[eTobey]

Its not that bad, but other scopes do much much better there!

I guess for a much much higher price

Not at all. My handheld scope for 200$ did much better. The Siglent was also the worst. I made a thread of it.

Btw you quoted my question, but you failed to answer it. My question was whether if I "upgrade" the 804 to 824, will it really be capable of the feature set of 824, or does the upgrade merely rewrite a product name string but in reality, it doesn't change anything.

I did not fail as i did not even try. I was adressing an aspect, that you did not have on your radar. It is also an odd question too, for a not so bad brand scope...

Anyway, for what I want to do (just learning electronics ins general and implementing some of my not-so-complicated pet projects), this scope is already an overkill, so there is no way I'll outgrow this scope. And based on my research, I really like Siglent, so I'm sure I'll buy this boy, I just don't know exactly which model out of the 800x series.

So what is it, that makes you really like this Siglent? A pocket sized scope would be enough for so not-so-complicated pet projects. Those have advantags, that this Siglent does not have. But if you have too much money, or want to become a fanboy anyway, then go ahead, you wont regret it (i will guarantee it ).

[Sorama]

Its not that bad, but other scopes do much much better there!

I guess for a much much higher price
Btw you quoted my question, but you failed to answer it. My question was whether if I "upgrade" the 804 to 824, will it really be capable of the feature set of 824, or does the upgrade merely rewrite a product name string but in reality, it doesn't change anything.

Anyway, for what I want to do (just learning electronics ins general and implementing some of my not-so-complicated pet projects), this scope is already an overkill, so there is no way I'll outgrow this scope. And based on my research, I really like Siglent, so I'm sure I'll buy this boy, I just don't know exactly which model out of the 800x series.

I have "upgraded" my SDS804 to an SDS824, and while I don't have the ability to test 200MHz, thanks to this thread https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/testing-the-new-siglent-sdg1022x-plus-output-100mhz!!/ I was able to make my "upgraded" SDG1022x plus put out a 110MHz sin wave.  The wave isn't perfect, but this isn't on the scope side.

Anyway, here is a pic that shows the scope model number and the wave. You can see the frequency as well.

Thanks! So it seems it's not just about the product name, but after the upgrade, it is really identical to the 824x. Just to make sure, I'll ask around in that upgrade guide thread; maybe somebody did a thorough test about this. It's just hard to believe that there are absolutely no hardware differences between these models

You really should first read the mentioned threads before asking these questions.
Then you would not ask these questions…
 don’t be that lazy.

[druantia]

My handheld scope for 200$ did much better. The Siglent was also the worst. I made a thread of it.

If you can recommend some devices, I'll check them out. I'm open to suggestions.

You really should first read the mentioned threads before asking these questions.
Then you would not ask these questions…
 don’t be that lazy.

Aactually, I ran through the mentioned threads right away - but it's true that I didn't read them very thoroughly due to lack of time, so might have accidentally skipped that part.
Could you link me the comment that answers my question and that you are referring to?

Btw, thanks everyone, I really appreciate your help

[Sorama]

My handheld scope for 200$ did much better. The Siglent was also the worst. I made a thread of it.

If you can recommend some devices, I'll check them out. I'm open to suggestions.

- but it's true that I didn't read them very thoroughly due to lack of time, so might have accidentally skipped that part.
Could you link me the comment that answers my question and that you are referring to?

Btw, thanks everyone, I really appreciate your help

You really want someone else to look it up for you??
 

[awakephd]

druantia,

FWIW, when I was making my selection, I read through every post I could find, especially those regarding the Siglent SDS804X-HD and the Rigol DHO804. One thing that quickly emerged is that there is a certain amount of flame-war that, sooner or later, creeps into every post. As a newbie, sorting the wheat from the chaff can be difficult.

Since I am a relative newbie to digital storage oscilloscopes, I hesitate to offer any blanket judgments. I will, however, offer two observations:

1) My own experience of the Siglent SDS804X-HD has not matched eTobey's frequent reports. I am not calling his experience into question; it may be that he is far more sophisticated in his needs and methods than I am, or it may be that he happened to get a lemon, or we could just have very different expectations. Regardless, the bottom line for me is that I nearly always find his reports distracting rather than helpful as I continue to get to know and use this scope. YMMV, of course.

2) While there are any number of posts that seem highly biased on either side of just about any scope, there are also contributors that seem to be both very even-handed and incredibly knowledgeable. The poster with the user name mawyatt, for example, always impresses me with the combination of his willingness to speak to the positive qualities of different brands, mixed with the impressive testing he accomplishes with those various scopes. I don't know mawyatt at all other than from his posts, but I nearly always find his posts, and others like his, to be very helpful in my learning of the scope.

I cannot stress highly enough that YMMV. Not only is "user interface" a highly subjective matter, but I am learning that the differences in context and needs makes for a huge difference in what one may value with regard to one scope versus another.

The good news is that there are some incredible choices available for astonishingly low prices. My $400 Siglent SDS804X-HD does not have all the bells and whistles that the $5,000 Keysight lab scope had in the electronics course I recently sat in on ... but wow, it comes astonishingly close, and is even better in some respects. The professor was blown away by the Bode plots I produced, for example. That definitely gave me confidence in the choice I had made!

[tautech]

druantia,

FWIW, when I was making my selection, I read through every post I could find, especially those regarding the Siglent SDS804X-HD and the Rigol DHO804. One thing that quickly emerged is that there is a certain amount of flame-war that, sooner or later, creeps into every post. As a newbie, sorting the wheat from the chaff can be difficult.
............

The good news is that there are some incredible choices available for astonishingly low prices. My $400 Siglent SDS804X-HD does not have all the bells and whistles that the $5,000 Keysight lab scope had in the electronics course I recently sat in on ... but wow, it comes astonishingly close, and is even better in some respects. The professor was blown away by the Bode plots I produced, for example. That definitely gave me confidence in the choice I had made!

This ^

Nothing else come close to the capability SDS800X HD offers at their price !

A little over a year ago and before their release I got a SDS814X HD to assess and with the considerable experience I have with the existing Siglent product line I immediately ordered a pile of them to mainline on SDS800X HD as our entry level DSO....but entry level it is certainly not yet the price would indicate they are.
In the following year we have sold many with not one complaint.

[eTobey]

My handheld scope for 200$ did much better. The Siglent was also the worst. I made a thread of it.

If you can recommend some devices, I'll check them out. I'm open to suggestions.

DSO QUAD
It has 4 channels, and a wavegen. It can do FFT, severaly decoders (which are in some aspects much nicer than of the Siglent). You also can send data. I got the custom firmware of Wildcat. There are other firmwares too i believe.

[awakephd]

I am unfamiliar with the DSO Quad, and quite a range of different units come up in a search, with prices from $200 - 550. Can you point us to the particular brand or model?

[eTobey]

I am unfamiliar with the DSO Quad, and quite a range of different units come up in a search, with prices from $200 - 550. Can you point us to the particular brand or model?

I believe, i got mine from seeedstudio.

[druantia]

Thanks for these very well put-together comments. I ordered the Siglent! I'm looking forward to learn how to use it.

[Grandchuck]

Good choice!