crimping spade connectors -- fail!

[samcramer]

I am trying to make a small cable with a male 2.8mm spade terminal on one end and a female 6.3mm spade terminal on the other end.  I'm using 18 AGW wire.

I am having a difficult time figuring out how to crimp these terminals.  I purchased an assortment of terminals like the ones shown below.  I am using a Klein 3005CE crimper (also shown below), which has 3 crimping cavities; the smallest is marked "22-16".  Try as I may, I can't crimp the terminals.  Is this due to crappy terminals which don't have an insulating sleeve?  To a crimper which isn't small enought?  To cockpit error?

[mikeselectricstuff]

That crimper is designed for insulated terminals, as indicated by the red/blue/yellow colouring on the jaws

[samcramer]

Ah, so this is the type of terminal I need, right?

[thephil]

Yes. Either that or a crimping tool for uninsulated terminals.
Crinping is fun but a PITA if you don't have the right tool...

[Benta]

Ah, so this is the type of terminal I need, right?

No. The isolated crimp connectors are cr*p. You need the right crimping tool plus isolation sleeves (if necessary).
Example:
https://www.amazon.com/Twidec-Crimping-Pliers-26-16AMG-Terminals/dp/B08J3SDJTX
Note the shape of the crimp jaws.

[aeberbach]

I never found a good and affordable hand crimper for spades. These days I crimp and then solder and then heatshrink or slide on insulated sleeves. It’s a good way to be sure for low volumes.

[themadhippy]

The isolated crimp connectors are cr*p.

Like everything you gets what you pays for. The whonhunglo elcheapos are shite,pay the money for a decent  brand ,use the correct size crimp for the cable size and  a decent crimper  and life gets a lot nicer

[Benta]

I never found a good and affordable hand crimper for spades. These days I crimp and then solder and then heatshrink or slide on insulated sleeves. It’s a good way to be sure for low volumes.

Soldering is the worst option ever, not just for spade terminals, but for all stranded wire connections.
Spade connectors were made for automotive and industrial applications, meaning stress and vibration.

The stranded wire will eventually break at a point around 3 mm from the solder joint, in the area where solid (due to solder) turns to stranded.
This will never happen on correctly crimped connections.

"SN-48B" is the generic name for the crimp tool needed, but quality differs greatly. Check the jaws for definition/sharpness/precision.
Prices vary from $12 (crap) to $20...40 (OK to good).

Crimping with a good tool is a joy!

[thermistor-guy]

...
No. The isolated crimp connectors are cr*p. You need the right crimping tool plus isolation sleeves (if necessary).
Example:
https://www.amazon.com/Twidec-Crimping-Pliers-26-16AMG-Terminals/dp/B08J3SDJTX
Note the shape of the crimp jaws.

Also note that the jaw profiles change from one side of the tool to the other, and that the upper and lower jaws don't have the same profile.
Check the Amazon photo that has steps 1-6; zoom in on step 3. Crimp tools for Quick Connect connectors have an orientation.

For best results, you have to insert the connector in the tool from the correct side, and facing the correct direction (up/down).
This is so the connector deforms into the intended shape, as you apply pressure through the tool.

It's easy to overlook orientation (left/right, up/down), and make poor crimps.

[EPAIII]

The Klein tool is very good quality. Not the best, but very good. The terminals shown, in addition to being the wrong type for the tool, are junk.

I suggest you go to a REAL electronic supply house like Mouser or DigiKey and buy some name brand terminals to learn with. Yes, they cost more. But they actually work. Once you are well acquainted with the process, then you can start to experiment with less expensive terminals.

Crimp terminals are made for specific ranges of wire sizes. Be sure to use the proper terminals for each wire size in your project. And be sure to fully close the crimping tool when you crimp.

[samcramer]

OK. Thanks to all for the good advice!

[HighVoltage]

For the none insulated terminals, I use the KNIPEX 9121215B
It is a well made tool.

[samcramer]

I suggest you go to a REAL electronic supply house like Mouser or DigiKey and buy some name brand terminals to learn with.

I just looked for terminals on DigiKey.  Trying to find the right ones there is, uh, interesting.  Yes, I understand that Digikey is a supplier to the knowledgable, and that's fine.  That said, can you recommend a source for an assortment of high quality terminals which includes male & female connectors sized ~2.8mm and ~6.3mm which work with 18 AGW wire?

[coppice]

You need:

• Clean, untarnished multi-strand wire
• A crimp terminal that is appropriate for the size of wire
• A crimp tool that is appropriate for the crimp terminal - both its size and whether it is insulated
• An understanding that you are trying to do more than scrunch a few strands together. That a proper crimp terminal deforms the round strands and terminal into a single mass of metal with all air excluded, and the metals bonded together. That done properly its at least a 1000 times more reliable than soldering. That it avoids the wicking that makes soldering to multi-strand wire a reliability disaster unless >100% of the wire where wicking has occurred is fully supported against flexing and vibration.
• Practice. Expect to mess up a bunch of terminals, as you develop a smooth and consistent style doing it.

[tooki]

For the none insulated terminals, I use the KNIPEX 9121215B
It is a well made tool.

Though Knipex is a good brand, I do not recommend non-ratcheting crimp tools, since you can’t be sure enough force has been applied.

[HighVoltage]

For the none insulated terminals, I use the KNIPEX 9121215B
It is a well made tool.

Though Knipex is a good brand, I do not recommend non-ratcheting crimp tools, since you can’t be sure enough force has been applied.

For simple terminals, this Knipex tool is perfectly alright and works very well.
Ratcheting crimp tools of course is the professional way to go and they are offered by a subsidiary of Knipex, called RENNSTEIG
https://www.rennsteig.com/produkte/kategorie/Crimp-System-L%C3%B6sungen/25134.html

[MrAl]

I am trying to make a small cable with a male 2.8mm spade terminal on one end and a female 6.3mm spade terminal on the other end.  I'm using 18 AGW wire.

I am having a difficult time figuring out how to crimp these terminals.  I purchased an assortment of terminals like the ones shown below.  I am using a Klein 3005CE crimper (also shown below), which has 3 crimping cavities; the smallest is marked "22-16".  Try as I may, I can't crimp the terminals.  Is this due to crappy terminals which don't have an insulating sleeve?  To a crimper which isn't small enought?  To cockpit error?

Hi,

It looks like your terminals do not have a plastic sleeve over them and that adds to the thickness of the material so when it is crimped the tool does not squeeze it too much.

Some tools like this have an adjustment where you can adjust the crimping gap on the tool.  You can make it smaller or larger.  You may be able to do that with yours, but if not you may need another tool or find something you can stick in there to make the gap smaller.  You'd have to be sure it works right though.

Alternately, maybe you can buy some new terminals.

New crimp tools are not that much if you have access to Amazon, but I am not sure how much you would want to spend either.

[xavier60]

Especially with open barrel crimps, don't twist the strands together. This mistake is often demonstrated on YouTube tutorials.

[Psi]

I never found a good and affordable hand crimper for spades. These days I crimp and then solder and then heatshrink or slide on insulated sleeves. It’s a good way to be sure for low volumes.

Queue all the people to come forward yelling that soldering a crimp terminal is bad....

edit: oh actually I see some have already appeared. haha

If you want to see them squirm, ask them to pick the best option from solder-then-crimp  or  crimp-then-solder. 

I'm with you on this though, soldering a crimp terminal is fine if done by someone who knows what they are doing. You only get problems when idiots do it and allows the solder to wick down into the strain relief area. Which is easy to avoid if you know what you're doing. And most engineers do.

[Benta]

And most engineers do.

Except a real engineer wouldn't ever do that, because it's a waste of time when the simple crimp suffices.
Totally pointless.

[Psi]

And most engineers do.

Except a real engineer wouldn't ever do that, because it's a waste of time when the simple crimp suffices.
Totally pointless.

Crimping is not as electrically robust as a solder joint. There's a risk the wire may pull out even if crimped following the right procedure and with the right tool.
You have to 'trust' that a crimp is good because you used the correct tool to do the crimp and you followed the correct procedure. It's kinda like using a BGA in that regard.

Nothing wrong with crimping and in many applications it's good and it's the best option. But choosing to solder a crimp terminal is a valid thing to do, there's just risks involved that you have to be aware of.

Just because something is intended to be used one way does not automatically make it wrong to use it in a different way.

[Benta]

See what I mean, they come forward in droves.

No, I am still alone in this thread. You and @aeberbach are a team.   

[Psi]

See what I mean, they come forward in droves.

No, I am still alone in this thread. You and @aeberbach are a team.   

yeah, I removed that bit when I noticed you were the same person.

The crimp vs solder thing has been discussed before on the forum, usually ends up in a hot debate. 

[Benta]

This thread ran well until reply #18, mainly talking about what the right tools for crimping are and generally giving tips on suppliers of tools and terminals etc.
Helpful to the OP, I think.

Then it went astray... something to think about.

[thm_w]

For simple terminals, this Knipex tool is perfectly alright and works very well.
Ratcheting crimp tools of course is the professional way to go and they are offered by a subsidiary of Knipex, called RENNSTEIG
https://www.rennsteig.com/produkte/kategorie/Crimp-System-L%C3%B6sungen/25134.html

I'd rather use a cheap-brand ratcheting crimper over a non-ratcheting branded one, the price is about the same $20 or so. As tooki says the ratchet will guarantee crimping pressure is fairly consistent. Hand pressure is not reliable, for me.