Darwin award: How to kill yourself with a 9V battery

[staxquad]

And that's exactly the problem with TASERS, if the probes enter the skin, the victim is dead.  But they won't ever admit to that, too much profit, too much police psychopathy.  So, they explain away the deaths (over 550) that the victims were weakened by whatever excuse available.

[Fraser]

@staxquad,

I totally agree that TASERS are only partially effective..........in cases where a TASER is justified, I far prefer that the Police use a 7.62mm caliber bullet. Nice and reliable.   

Too dangerous ? Oh.... OK, I will be pragmatic and let the Police use a TASER, as that at least gives the target a fighting chance.

What exactly is the reason for raising TASERS and kill rates in a killer 9V battery folk lore thread ? They are somewhat different.


Edit: I have struck out my commnets.......I was feeling grumpy when I read your message and should not have been so sarcastic in my response. Apologies.

[Biff383]

The probes do enter the skin in some of ours. Never tried to get them to hit both thumbs.

[electronics man]

yes there are a few ways you can put it undeload and test the voltage.

[jc101]

A few years ago now someone I know thought it would be an idea to jam 9v battery, terminals down, onto a brillo pad.  Quite impressive, if somewhat hot and damaging to nearby surfaces.  They only tried that the once.

[N2IXK]

The 90 and 135V "B" batteries would give you a little tingle, but for real fun you want one of these guys:

http://www.batteriesinaflash.com/special-application/eveready-493-carbon-zinc-300v-batteries-neda-722-replacement-3pk

Used mainly (in sets of 3 in series)  to power Geiger tubes back in the days before transistorized inverters were practical.

Early electronic photoflash units used a 510V battery to charge the storage capacitor. Have never actually seen one of those puppies, though.

[Galaxyrise]

A few years ago now someone I know thought it would be an idea to jam 9v battery, terminals down, onto a brillo pad.  Quite impressive, if somewhat hot and damaging to nearby surfaces.  They only tried that the once.

That was actually taught to me as a survival fire starting technique in the Boy Scouts. 

[mrkev]

And that's exactly the problem with TASERS, if the probes enter the skin, the victim is dead.  But they won't ever admit to that, too much profit, too much police psychopathy.  So, they explain away the deaths (over 550) that the victims were weakened by whatever excuse available.

Nah. It doesn't matter if the probes pierce the skin. They use charged cap, that doesn't (shouldn't have) enough charge to cause you a serious damage (I would say that healthy person could survive "zap" almost directly to heart). Those deaths are caused usually by shock, fall itself or hiden illness/weakness of heart...

[Redcat]

When I was a little kid we also used the "toung technique" to test 4.5V batteries  . We sometimes did this just for fun  . But I agree, with a boost circuit you could have success. We had to open single-use cameras (1.5V batt) in the lab to get the film out many years ago and I was not the only one who got shocked by the flash circuit  (you normally learn this after 1 or 2 zaps  ). Problem is not so much the 9V battery but the cap and the transformer.

[electronics man]

It the same with CCFL invertors for old fashioned backlights for lcds but the shock isn't that bad if you haven't felt the shock then the smell of burned flesh will soon tell you but it has never done too,ucl harm to me.

[Rigby]

Tasers are why I always wear a chain mail undershirt.  I suppose I should get into some trouble at some point and test it.

I'm joking; I never wear a chain mail undershirt and I get tasered daily because I'm on the lam.

I'm joking; I'm not on the lam, I'm running from authority.

I'm joking; I always keep library books one day past the due date, so I can stick it to The Man.

[leppie]

cmon, if you get a mains  -> 18~6v transformer and put the primaries on your finger then tap the secondaries on a 9v battery you get a fairly nasty feeling zap.

We used to do this is school   It also worked well chaining up several people and let the end guy zap someone.

In hindsight, it was probably not so safe, but the pulse is so short, I doubt it could do any real damage.

[G7PSK]

I remember 15 and  33 volt batteries as well as the 67.5 75.5 80 and 90 volts being sold at the local post office and hardware shops in the 60's.
the 15 and 33 were a little smaller than a pp3 and had a stud each end apart from some radios they were mostly used in hearing aids. There were also big 7.5 volt batteries with plug tapping points used for grid bias and filament power in radios some of the high voltage batteries also had low volt taping for grid bias also some radios used a battery that had a 4 pin socket and supplied filament and HT in one unit, all available now which is a pity as I have a few radios that used them.

[G7PSK]

Been thinking about this (killing yourself with a multimeter ) I have just checked the voltages used in my DMM for resistance the UNI-T 61E voltages vary between 0.3 volts on the M ohm range to 2.9 volts on the K ohm range, why the higher  ranges use lower voltages I don't know. The amprobe meter I have uses around .5 volts. I have not checked my other meters but the old AVO I have states it uses 9 volts on the meg ohm range but as that is used in a resistance bridge the effective voltage is likely a lot lower on the probes. So I think that story about the sailor is most likely a lot of bull.

[Sigmoid]

And that's exactly the problem with TASERS, if the probes enter the skin, the victim is dead.  But they won't ever admit to that, too much profit, too much police psychopathy.  So, they explain away the deaths (over 550) that the victims were weakened by whatever excuse available.

While the incident described in the Darwin award is highly improbable (and apparently debunked by several people on this thread), what you state about tasers is purely ludicrous. A taser has two electrodes separated by an inch or so. The circuit does not close through the heart. (Also, afaik taser electrodes are made to penetrate skin. That's how the thing works 99% of the time.)

Yes, there are fatalities from taser use, mostly people with pre-existing heart conditions. That said, would you prefer that police got back to using live ammo whenever they got scared? I think tasers are a huge improvement.

[hgg]

heck, even a camera flash circuit can give a REAL NASTY shock if the capacitor is charged
and they're usually just powered by a single 1.5v alkaline cell 

I have been zapped by mains in the past, but I will not forget the day I was almost
electrocuted by a camera flash!...      The thing I remember very well is that the shock
from the flash was much worse than the one from the 220V mains. 

DC is way more dangerous than AC.

[Rigby]

DC is way more dangerous than AC.

Eh.  In terms of how much it hurts, I believe it has a lot more to do with the current, voltage, and how exactly it's finding its way into and out of your body than it does AC vs. DC.

[IanB]

DC is way more dangerous than AC.

No, that's an unjustified conclusion. The shock you got from the camera flash was more painful than the previous shocks you have had from the mains. That's as much as you can say.

[ejeffrey]

There is one other physics part of this story that doesn't follow, and which anyone can easily test at home.

Take a jar and fill it with salt water.  This will approximate blood.  Now dip the tips of a multimeter in a few cm apart and measure the resistance.  You will measure a very high resistance -- probably 100s of kohms.  The reason is that there isn't enough surface area in the probe tip to make contact with the relatively poor conductor that is salt water (or blood).  The bulk resistance of a jar of salt water is low, but the point-to-point resistance is dominated by the small area in the neighborhood of the probe tips.

Now get aligator clip leads and a couple of sections of copper braid.  Clip the copper braid to the test leads and immerse them in the salt water.  Presto -- the resistance is probably only a few ohms.

Make sure to wash and thoroughly rinse your probe tips after this experiment to prevent corrosion.

9V can't put a fatal (or even detectable) current through you from a pair of test leads, even if you pierce the skin. At a minimum you would need a much bigger contact area to get dangerous currents.

[mariush]

I touched AC wires with 220v 50 Hz when I was a kid for about 10 seconds, there was supposed to be a light switch behind a fence pole but the owners planned to repaint the fence and the wires were uninsulated without me knowing...
I remember it actually didn't hurt at all, just felt some sort of buzzing in my fingers and the two fingers involved got numb and stayed numb for about 20 minutes.

I did get zapped by a flash camera once, I did touch a power supply mains capacitor once... both times the instant reaction/reflex was to throw away the thing and it mostly hurt my feelings.. can't say that it hurt physically (well, for more than the actual moment)

I also inserted a faulty testing pen in the mains socket and it flew out of my hand all the way to the other wall about 3 meters away. That was a bit scary.

[linux-works]

my scary 9v battery story:

this is the aftermath:



I had left that battery pointing up and sitting in the bedroom on the night table.  I was using it for a headphones amp, iirc.

removed the battery once I was done and left it on the table.  went into another room for a while.

I heard a loud BANG! and came back to find that battery broken open and sitting on its side.  the 'nail' had launched upwards and hit the ceiling!

this only happened once to me in my 50+ yrs of living.  I never saw the insides of a 9v battery before and to be honest, I hope I never do again.

from now on, I will not leave batteries around on tables like that  anymore.  with the chinese making total shit quality and supplying us with all our gear (and power), more and more stuff like this is going to happen ;(

[electronics man]

Batteries (as far as I know) don't just explode something must have happened to it for that to happen

[linux-works]

Batteries (as far as I know) don't just explode something must have happened to it for that to happen

I used the battery, removed it and placed it on the table.

that's ALL I did.  I did not short it out or push it beyond its limits.

they don't usually explode; but this one sure did, I assure you!  it was not even IN USE at the time, which is even stranger!

[electronics man]

Weird

[IanB]

Batteries (as far as I know) don't just explode something must have happened to it for that to happen

It's rare for it to happen, but alkaline batteries do have the possibility of exploding. During operation, and especially when they are depleted, batteries generate bubbles of hydrogen gas that can build up pressure inside the cell. There are two protection mechanisms against this. The first is chemical: there is a catalyst inside the cell that converts hydrogen bubbles back to water. The second is physical: there is a pressure vent in the cell to let any excess pressure out (this looks like a rubber seal at the negative end).

So, if the cell is badly made and excess hydrogen gas builds up inside the cell without being chemically absorbed, and if there is a fault in the pressure seal so that the pressure cannot escape, then the cell could burst with a significant pop.

(By the way, when alkaline batteries leak and spew their contents all over the battery compartment, it is the same gas bubbles that are responsible. The gas pressure builds up inside the cell and forces the cell contents out through the pressure vent.)