Difference between cheap and expensive oscilloscopes + some recommendations

[czbaterka]

Oscilloscopes from good brands are extremely expensive and there isn't much information on the internet about the difference between a $2000+ Keysight 100MHz oscilloscope vs a cheap $200 Owon 100MHz oscilloscope from Banggood. Can someone explain to me what is so special about the expensive ones and if it is important for my purpose?

I decided to buy my first oscilloscope because I bought an apartment and I intend to do my own smart home installation. I plan to develop my own LED dimmers, relay controllers and CAN based (wired) communication bus.
And that's why I'm looking for an oscilloscope that won't put a hole in my pocket and at the same time will be usable for slightly advanced electrical engineering work.

Does anyone have experience with cheap oscilloscopes from brankd like Owon, Finsiri, Hantek and the like? They are all around $200 for 2 channels of 100Mhz 1Gs/s. Some also contain AWG (although only at around 3V output which seems unusable to me without some kind of amplification?).

I also looked at handheld oscilloscopes from Owon, but in the end I decided that the standard formfactor would be better.

Is it even important to address this? Aren't they all the same in this price range? Will they be enough for my purpose and at the same time learning with oscilloscopes (even though I know basic work with oscilloscopes)?

[u666sa]

Fnirsi no bueno. Hantek no bueno. Quite literally if you look at overviews, they have glitches. 
Owon is okey. I have handheld 200 mhz owon, it's okey.

Siglent & Rigol for around $400 U.S. dollars and you golden.

Also, keep in mind, you don't have to buy top of the line model, for example you don't have to buy top of the line SDS1204X-E, you could buy cheaper SDS1104X-E and unlock it so it becomes 1204. With some models you could do that, so you have to do your dilegence with research.

[rstofer]

One concern is the currency exchange rate and another is any import tax.  How much does a particular model cost in manhours of wages where you live...

The topic of "which scope" comes up here and in the Test Equipment forum just about once per week.  These threads should be easy to find with the Search feature.

The entry level scopes that tend to be mentioned over and over are the offerings from Siglent and Rigol.  Several years agos I bought a Rigol DS1054Z (4 channel, unlocked to 100 MHz) and it is a terrific scope.  It can't compete in terms of bandwidth with my Tek 485 at 350 MHz but in terms of features, the Rigol wins hands down.

I would seriously look at the entry level offerings of Rigol and Siglent in terms of features and local cost.  Today I would probably buy one of the Siglents that weren't available when I bought my Rigol.

[PGPG]

I can't tell detail type but to watch digital communication my brother bought for about $10 USB driven 8 lines logic state analyser and it meets all his expectations. He use it mainly to watch RS485 bus.
If you expect you will have to analyse what is going on on your CAN bus such tool can sometimes be better than oscilloscope.
For 20+ years I was using HAMEG HM1507 analog/digital scope. For 99% of time I used it in digital mode even it had only 2k samples memory. Nowadays even the cheapest oscilloscope will have bigger sample buffer so I think each oscilloscope you can buy is enough good for you.

[tooki]

The problem with many of the very cheapest scopes (stuff cheaper than Rigol/Siglent/Owon) is not that they lack features or whatever, but that absolute basic functionality doesn’t work properly.  Look at the reviews; I don’t know why you think there’s no info on scopes, there are tons of reviews, especially in the form of videos.

[Solder_Junkie]

Oscilloscopes from good brands are extremely expensive and there isn't much information on the internet about the difference between a $2000+ Keysight 100MHz oscilloscope vs a cheap $200 Owon 100MHz oscilloscope

A hobby user will generally not buy a $2000 Keysight, mainly because of occasional use and the high cost compared to a similar Siglent or Rigol. Commercial/industrial users will buy Keysight, R&S or Tektronics for the support and maybe for political reasons too.

Like many on here I have a Rigol DS1054Z that has been hacked to open it up. Today there are slightly better oscilloscopes from both Rigol and Siglent, but for what I use mine for the 1054Z is more than good enough.

Whether to opt for 4 channels over 2 depends on what you might want to use it for, personally I find 4 channels very useful for measuring timing/control circuits in my home made amateur radio transmitters.

SJ

[u666sa]

Whether to opt for 4 channels over 2 depends on what you might want to use it for

No and no debate either. Bench scope only 4 channels. It's one of those "for a few dollars more" situations. Chances are you won't use all of the channels at the same time, but chances are you might need to use once all of the 4 channels, and that is worth it. Plus there is resale value aspect.

[Solder_Junkie]

Bench scope only 4 channels. It's one of those "for a few dollars more" situations. Chances are you won't use all of the channels at the same time, but chances are you might need to use once all of the 4 channels, and that is worth it. Plus there is resale value aspect.

I do not agree that you should only buy a 4 channel oscilloscope. It entirely depends on what use it is intended for. Typically you can have double the bandwidth with a 2 channel 'scope for the same price as a 4 channel one. Don't forget that not all hobby users have a large budget to spend on test equipment.

Currently from Telonic in the UK, a 4 channel DS1054Z, 50 MHz bandwidth scope, costs the same as a DS1202Z-E 2CH, 200MHz bandwidth scope.

SJ

[Old Printer]

Bench scope only 4 channels. It's one of those "for a few dollars more" situations. Chances are you won't use all of the channels at the same time, but chances are you might need to use once all of the 4 channels, and that is worth it. Plus there is resale value aspect.

I do not agree that you should only buy a 4 channel oscilloscope. It entirely depends on what use it is intended for. Typically you can have double the bandwidth with a 2 channel 'scope for the same price as a 4 channel one. Don't forget that not all hobby users have a large budget to spend on test equipment.

Currently from Telonic in the UK, a 4 channel DS1054Z, 50 MHz bandwidth scope, costs the same as a DS1202Z-E 2CH, 200MHz bandwidth scope.

SJ

It is common knowledge here that the 1040Z can easily be opened to over 200MHz at no cost, the same is true for an equal Siglent. There is no reason to give up 2 extra channels in exchange for 150MHz that is already built into the scope.

[ebastler]

It is common knowledge here that the 1040Z can easily be opened to over 200MHz 100 MHz at no cost, the same is true for an equal Siglent. There is no reason to give up 2 extra channels in exchange for 150MHz that is already built into the scope.

I think you got the older 8-bit entry level scopes scopes mixed up with the newer 12-bit models. The DS1054Z only has 1 GSa/s total (250 MSa/s in 4-cjhannel mode) and can only be opened up to 100 MHz nominal bandwidth. The newer scopes offer twice the sampling rate and maximum bandwidth,  but are more expensive of course.

Nevertheless my personal preference would always be a 4-channel scope too.

[Aldo22]

Fnirsi no bueno. Hantek no bueno. Quite literally if you look at overviews, they have glitches. 
Owon is okey. I have handheld 200 mhz owon, it's okey.

Anyone who mentions Fnirsi 1014D and Hantek DSO2000 in the same sentence has no idea what he's talking about.
OWON HDS2202S costs at least $100 more than the DSO2000 and has 8kpts memory vs. 8Mpts on the Hantek.
The vertical scale starts at 10mV/div vs. 2mV/div on the Hantek.
You can hate Hantek, but don't talk nonsense. 

[Old Printer]

It is common knowledge here that the 1040Z can easily be opened to over 200MHz 100 MHz at no cost, the same is true for an equal Siglent. There is no reason to give up 2 extra channels in exchange for 150MHz that is already built into the scope.

I think you got the older 8-bit entry level scopes scopes mixed up with the newer 12-bit models. The DS1054Z only has 1 GSa/s total (250 MSa/s in 4-cjhannel mode) and can only be opened up to 100 MHz nominal bandwidth. The newer scopes offer twice the sampling rate and maximum bandwidth,  but are more expensive of course.

Nevertheless my personal preference would always be a 4-channel scope too.

This Hackaday article says the 1054Z they tested went to 250MHz. I am pretty sure I read about similar unlocked results on this forum, but it will take some looking. Ill check back here if I can find it, but you may be right. As you said, even at 100MHz I would take the 4 channels.
https://hackaday.com/2016/10/05/choosing-a-scope-examining-bandwidth/

[jonpaul]

Analog: Tektronix 2465/7/B

Digital: Yokogawa DL/DLM

j

[ebastler]

This Hackaday article says the 1054Z they tested went to 250MHz. I am pretty sure I read about similar unlocked results on this forum, but it will take some looking. Ill check back here if I can find it, but you may be right. As you said, even at 100MHz I would take the 4 channels.
https://hackaday.com/2016/10/05/choosing-a-scope-examining-bandwidth/

I am not sure I trust the Hackaday measurements. They claim that their DS1054Z was not even "hacked" to the nominal 100 MHz bandwidth, but still in its original 50 MHz state. Bloody unlikely that the scope has a 250 MHz bandwidth in that setting...

It's probably a combination of artefacts: Ringing of the incoming signal (they did not use 50 Ohm input termination) and maybe interpolation artefacts. (The scope only acquired 5 samples/div in that measurement, and wasn't there something fishy about its sin(x)/x interpolation, at least when it was new to the market?)

Nevertheless, since the OP was asking about a price range from Fnirsi to Keysight, I  hope that the budget is not strictly limited to the bottom end of that range. If affordable I would recommend a 12-bit, 4-channel scope from either Siglent (SDS800X HD series) or Rigol (DHO800 series -- not the compromised DHO900!). Either of these can be opened up to 200 MHz nominal bandwidth via a software "hack". The Siglent provides a higher sampling rate and can hence actually support 200 MHz bandwidth in four-channel mode.

[Aldo22]

Is it even important to address this? Aren't they all the same in this price range?

No, they are not.
Afaik, there are actually only two reasonably well-documented (by the community) benchtop scopes in the lowest price range:
The Fnirsi 1014D and the Hantek DSO2000.
There are of course others scopes from Owon (and clones) and from Uni-T etc., but for reasons unknown to me they are hardly a topic in the forums. I think that's a disadvantage in itself.
Of course, it could theoretically be that they just work so well that there's nothing to say about them, but that seems rather unlikely to me. 

Kerry Wong (a Youtube tester who imo knows what he's doing) says:

Hantek DSO2000: “I think you can't find many alternatives at this price point with a performance and capability you find in this DSO2000.”

Fnirsi 1014D: “I can not recommend this scope at all”, “Personally, I would not touch this scope with a 10 foot pole.”

After all, it's not just about what a device can do, but above all what you want to use it for.
Sometimes even a “toyscope” is enough. 

[ebastler]

Digital: Yokogawa DL/DLM

I believe the OP is talking about digital scopes here. For your advice to be useful, you would need to be more specific:

Which used Yokogawa models would you suggest to get a good price/performance deal compared to e.g. a Siglent SDS800X HD? I see Yokogawa DL1540C scopes offered around 500€ for example. 200 MSa/s, basic measurements, 1000-point FFT, no decoders. 6.4" VGA screen, bulky unit, no USB or Ethernet (but a floppy driven and RS-232 instead).

Unless there are much better deals to be had, I would say sorry -- these may have been great when you were active in the field, but can't compete with new products from today's B brands.

[PGPG]

If affordable I would recommend a 12-bit, 4-channel scope from either Siglent (SDS800X HD series) or Rigol (DHO800 series -- not the compromised DHO900!).

If budget on scope is limited than the main decision left is to prefer 4 channels or the bandwidth.
Have in mind that:
If you have 2 channels and need more than in most cases you have a way around - you can use one channel as reference that always triggers oscilloscope in the same way why you can use second probe to see different circuit points always related to signal from first probe. If oscilloscope allows to memory and display such waveform you even not need to remember how signal you just not see was looking like.
If you have smaller bandwidth than you need you don't have a way around.

Using oscilloscopes more than 40 years (first 10 years it was made by me 1x5MHz analog scope) I remember only one situation when I needed more than 2 channels. But it of course depends on user needs. I think seeing more channels is typically need in digital signals where logic state analyser can be used instead of oscilloscope.

If anyone is curious where such a small bandwidth of my scope comes from:
In 1982 I had only 200V transistors. That determined the maximum voltage I could drive the deflector plates. That determined their sensitivity needed. That limited the tube anode voltage to 1200V (much smaller than tube I had was originally designed for). That determined the time electrons fly between plates. That determined bandwidth.

[czbaterka]

Thanks everyone for recommendations.
I reconsidered it and I will go for 4 channel scope as I also found out that its good choice if I would ever need to measure differencial signals.

I allowed myself more budget and now I am considering Rigol DHO804 as it can be hacked and seems to be able to do like 200Mhz. Does anyone know if it still have some big bugs? Main reason I want it is that Rigol seems as a good brand and it has USB-C power and thus is floating scope (if I understand it correctly).

[ebastler]

You are correct about the USB power, and the scope will indeed be floating if you don't connect the additional Ground cable Rigol is providing. But it is very unadvisable to operate it floating! There is a safety risk if you connect one of the ground clips to a high voltage, since all BNC jacks and all ground clips will then be at that dangerous potential.

The Siglent SDS804X HD is arguably the more serious scope for approximately same money. Higher sampling rate, faster acquisition (waveform rate), more powerful FFT. The Rigol may be a bit easier to learn, since its large setup dialogs (overlaying much of the screen) typically have all relevant settings in one place. The Siglent relies on side menus -- also touch-operated, but they sometimes need sub-menus or vertical scrolling to fit all necessary settings, so you don't see everything at once.

Edit: Rigol has a mixed track record regarding bug fixes. DHO800 users have been waiting for a firmware update for a long time now to fix the (manageable number of) remaining bugs. Rigol published an update a month or two ago but had to pull it back quickly, since it could brick the scope under specific circumstances. It's been quiet again for a while, but they will release something eventually...

[czbaterka]

And are there any other options how to probe without ground reference without floating scope? I understand why it is dangerous to use floating scope, but other option is just buying differential probe which costs same money as the scope itself.
The SDS804X seems to have standard PC plug. Is it also hackable?

[ebastler]

And are there any other options how to probe without ground reference without floating scope? I understand why it is dangerous to use floating scope, but other option is just buying differential probe which costs same money as the scope itself.
The SDS804X seems to have standard PC plug. Is it also hackable?

If you don't need all four channels, you can always use two probes for differential measurements and let the scope calculate the difference. (They all have math functions these days, and you can disable the two "raw" traces in the display.)

Yes, the SDS804X HD has the regular IEC connector and a built-in power supply. (Which I personally prefer, less clutter.) It can also be "upgraded" to 200 MHz bandwidth by entering a software key, and there's a Python code generator floating around on the forum which can generate these keys. With the Siglent's 2 GSa/s total sampling rate you still get 500 MSa/s in 4-channel mode, i.e. you can actually use the 200 MHz bandwidth without aliasing. (The Rigol is cutting some corners there with its 1.25 GSa/s total.)

[J-R]

Just be aware that the Rigol DHO800 series is a bit small and the fan is a bit noisy.  But otherwise you'll get quite a bit for the money once liberated.

[jonpaul]

Consider a used vontage analog scope forst???

I suggest ham fleas, local street sales, forums, for old analog scopes 2 ch 

In CZ you may  find  Hameg, Philips or French Metrix. Best is Tektronix !

I have found  Hameg 203, 204,  in Paris for EU 5, 25, 40.

Just 2 ch  20 MHz but fine for 95% of work...

Jon

[czbaterka]

I do not really want analog scope because of its size and lack of math and auto measurements I do not really have time for analog tbh
Reason I like DHO804 is the size actually as I have limited space on desk and I was first considering Owon's portable 3v1 scopes. But I relized its a terrible value for features I get compared to the standalone units.

I want the 4 channels because If I will ever need to do the differenrial measurements with 2 probes, I want at least 2 channels, but when I am thinking about it, is it even possible when the ground is shared across all 4 channels to do teo floating measurements at a same time?

[ebastler]

Consider a used vontage analog scope forst???

Is that your way of saying "Yes, I was wrong when suggesting vintage Yokogawa digital scopes in my earlier post -- buying them today does not make sense"?