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I hope I'm not starting too many threads.
I'm looking for opinions with this one.
I think I'm going to try developing my PCBoard myself and I'm looking to see what
the best configuration is for a drill press and fence/jig.
I have a Ridged brand full sized drill press but I do not have a fence or a jig. I can only guess what the runout is.
I also have a hand held dremel drill. I see that there is a drill press kit available for them. Do they work?
What do most folks use?
Thanks -
I use a dremel freehand with carbide bits...
(got a great deal on 1800 of them about ten years ago)
Eye protection is mandatory with the freehand method, a little sideways force and those #71's shatter like glass.
Sure would be nice to have one of those little Proxxon drill presses though.
James. -
I have the flexible extension for mine.
However, with a multi-pin component, I imagine I would have to be spot on.
I personally have a hard time drilling three Large holes with a drill press in a straight, line spaced evenly.
By hand would tough for me. I take meds that give me the shakes.
Great tip on the eye protection. I have many pairs, but I don't always wear them.
Thanks -
A friend of mine back in the 70s had a Dremel & the little drill press for it. He bought it specifically for making PCBs, and loved it. With the tiny drill bits, the Dremel drills faster than a regular drill press, because of its high rpm.
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For years i have been using home made pcb drill [pics] - 12V DC motor taken out of old printer or model plane [has to have decent torque], a momentary switch and drill holder made out of terminal block.
This is enough for 0.6-1.5mm holes for most components. And with some practice there is no problem with 40pin DIL drilled to be spot-on.
I also have proxxon mini-drill and occasionally use it freehand, especially when i have 2 or more hole diameters on my PCB.
But for drilling presses i say no - time consuming and at least for me its harder to put drill spot-on. May be personal preference thought.
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But for drilling presses i say no - time consuming and at least for me its harder to put drill spot-on. May be personal preference thought.
That is not hard with small drill presses, just lower the drill press till the PCB let’s say 2mm gap between the drill and PCB and some practice you are good to go.
I got couple different mini drills, Proxxon, Ferm and Dremel and if I have to drill free hand for couple holes I rather grab the Proxxon. Other than that if I have to drill a lot holes I use the drill press.
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DO NOT use the Dremel drill stand - it's a piece of shit, the holding mount is plastic and the drill moves off axis and vibrates (ie you break expensive micro drill bits), I had one and it couldn't even hold the dremel vertically without surgery.
Proxxon is a far superior product, and it's drills are quieter and have less runout, and the collets are superior to Dremel. -
Dremel drill press is generally regarded to be a bit useless.
Many people use rotary tools (dremels) to drill without issue, use HSS bits though as carbide is going to break with side loads/runout but HSS much more forgiving - for the hobbyist doing a few boards now and then HSS is fine.
You can also buy little chucks to put onto a standard 2.3mm DC motor shaft that will hold a bit down to about 0.8mm. These work quite well - a DC motor is smaller, lighter (and cheaper/free from junked printers, RC cars....) than a dremel so you might get a better control since it's going to be a shorter distance from tip to hand and less weight, easier to rest your wrist on the bench while holding the motor and just pivot on the heel of your palm.
The biggest problem though with any drill press arrangement is aligning the bit with the hole. If you drill after etching and have etched the holes leaving just a ring then that helps to guide the bit to the correct place if you are fraction out. But you still need to be pretty close. I havn't really been successful in coming up with a good visual alignment system that's any better than just using your eyes, good light, and practice.
FWIW, I've taken that small chuck a step further and mounted it and it's motor on a motorised z-axis platform controlled by a button and a 555, hold button, drill spins and platform descends until it drills through the board and hits the limit switch, then it reverses direction until a timeout or I release button. Move PCB to next hole, hold button. Yeah, it's complete and utter ridiculous overkill, but a learning experience for one day adding another 2 axes and computer control, all made out of old parts from inkjet printers (except the chuck) :-) I'm still trying to work out the hole alignment issue on this, due to the platform obscuring the view (even more so than a drill press would), it's a little tricky to get it spot on ALL the time (95% of holes, no problem, 5%... bugger).
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DO NOT use the Dremel drill stand ...
Can’t agree more, I keep saying that on my work too and one colleague still got one because he had a Dremel drill, he is not happy… it is a plastic toy compared to Proxxon stand. -
FWIW, I've taken that small chuck a step further and mounted it and it's motor on a motorised z-axis platform controlled by a button and a 555, hold button, drill spins and platform descends until it drills through the board and hits the limit switch, then it reverses direction until a timeout or I release button. Move PCB to next hole, hold button. Yeah, it's complete and utter ridiculous overkill, but a learning experience for one day adding another 2 axes and computer control, all made out of old parts from inkjet printers (except the chuck) :-) I'm still trying to work out the hole alignment issue on this, due to the platform obscuring the view (even more so than a drill press would), it's a little tricky to get it spot on ALL the time (95% of holes, no problem, 5%... bugger).
Made your own CNC machine....
You dun matriculated out of the Beginners thread. DO NOT use the Dremel drill stand ...
Can’t agree more, I keep saying that on my work too and one colleague still got one because he had a Dremel drill, he is not happy… it is a plastic toy compared to Proxxon stand.
This is exactly the feedback I was looking for.... Dremel stand..... looked wimpy to me. I was hoping, but as usual, you get what you pay for.
I went to the Proxxon site. The price isn't too bad.
Remember, I could never go hand held with accuracy. Sometimes it's hard getting a screwdriver bit on a screw.
Proxxon.
The table top Press or their holder for the hand tool ?
They have the small vice for the table top press or a table with the X-Y fence for $100 that appears to fit a press or the hand tool holder.
I am guessing you will say stay away from the Proxxon hand tool holder as well. The stability and runout can't be as good as a fixed press.... No? -
FWIW, I use a cheap full size drill press with a key-less chuck. I also use HSS drill bits and find they last last long enough. Drilling at a very High speed wouldn't help as most of the time is spent moving and lining up the PCB.
With 0.8mm holes I can drill about 20 per minute. I always etch guide holes in the copper and that make alignment a lot less critical. The drill bit will flex and pull the PCB the last third of a millimetre or so. That wouldn't work with carbide bits. They'd just shatter.
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I am guessing you will say stay away from the Proxxon hand tool holder as well. The stability and runout can't be as good as a fixed press.... No?
If you didn't see this yet, find out yourself
http://youtu.be/1JyTf1tJXXo -
FWIW, I use a cheap full size drill press with a key-less chuck. I also use HSS drill bits and find they last last long enough. Drilling at a very High speed wouldn't help as most of the time is spent moving and lining up the PCB.
With 0.8mm holes I can drill about 20 per minute. I always etch guide holes in the copper and that make alignment a lot less critical. The drill bit will flex and pull the PCB the last third of a millimetre or so. That wouldn't work with carbide bits. They'd just shatter.
Do you run the solder bath through the toaster oven?
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Do you run the solder bath through the toaster oven?
I do use it for reflow soldering of prototypes, yes. -
If you can find one a Fobco precision drill press is the best. I had one many years ago but like an idiot traded it in for a large radial drill.
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I have a small drill stand from proxxon that goes with my small drill/grinder.
Works reasonably well.
I have modded the stand with a ring of white smd LEDs in the hole that lights up PCB from below - makes it super nice to see what i'm drilling ;-)
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Another vote for Proxxon.
I use a Proxxon "Professional IB/E Drill / Grinder" with a Proxxon "Micromot MB 140/S stand".
See both here:
http://www.proxxon-direct.com/acatalog/professional_drill_grinder_ibe.html
http://www.proxxon-direct.com/acatalog/micromot_drill_stand_mb_140s.html
I am very pleased with this set-up and have used it to drill 0.6mm vias on double-sided boards with no trouble at all.
Hope this helps.
Resistoid.
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I haven't heard anything but bad things about the dremel mini drill press thing. A piece of scrap wood with a hole drilled through would probably work fine.
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Since you already have a Dremel, I would recommend scrounging up a Dremel drill press attachment (not sure of the exact name). It's what I used when making my first PCB *EVER*, and it went very smoothly without breaking a single bit. A standard drill press seems a bit big for fine PCB work; the Dremel setup is nice and compact.
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DO NOT use the Dremel drill stand ...
Can’t agree more, I keep saying that on my work too and one colleague still got one because he had a Dremel drill, he is not happy… it is a plastic toy compared to Proxxon stand.
Yup. I have a dremel drill stand, and it's none too sturdy. The biggest gripe being it going off axis, which is a big nono!
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Hi sorry to be back with a related question.
In this thread I learned about Proxxon machines.
Naturally I started looking at the hand model with the stand.
Then, heck that's almost the cost of the TBM-200 bench top.
Either case I was going to get the X/Y Table.
Now I'm looking further....and that's $70 from the MF-70 mini mill.
http://www.proxxon.com/eng/html/27110.php
For $450 inc. shipping. It looks like a great tool. I have read some reviews about noise, some failures, and too much backlash on the table.
But it's half the cost of Sherlin and Micro-Mat.
I'm not expecting 10,000th accuracy because heck, I was going to use a Rigid Full size drill press with a 1" runout.
Plus this little guy is 20K RPM.
Any reason I should avoid this?
Is it total junk?
My rationalization is I wanted an accurate benchtop drill why not go to this one.
Lastly, if you have used a machine like this with an X/Y table, what type of vice / sacrificial material to set up for PCB?
Or, is it a bad choice for that?
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I wouldn’t recommend MF70 for PCB drilling, it is not bad but because of the Z axis spindle you have to turn up and down all the time and imagine doing that for 100 holes in a PCB. With a drill press it is a short movement, the name says it already “drill press”.
I have a MF70 and don’t have issues, you have to fine tune it to make it work that’s all, don’t have issues with being loud either. MF70 is nice to mill small things (really small) but I wouldn’t get it for PCB drilling.
But if you don’t have a rotary tool I would recommend you a IBS/E it is very solid machine and runs smooth, get the MB140 to go with and you have nice setup, you can use the rotary tool separate for other things. For PCB I never use a vice, just move it by hand on the flat surface of the MB140 that’s all.
If you have a hand rotary tool than go for TBM220 and you can use it to drill more things like metal. It is very small and nice bench top drill. I posted some photos about its height with a drill in similar topic as this one.
I am a Proxxon fanboy, so maybe you should wait till some other girls/guys give their opinion
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Don't worry about being a fanboy.
I'm that way on products I love.
I've been looking over Proxxon since this thread started and comparing them to other products.
I like where they are price performance because it will not get a ton of use.
That said I use my floor drill press all the time and each time I'm trying to do small work and fumbling to hold down the work.
I have a pretty good Dremel but I only really use the quick change cut-off wheel.
For years and years I haven't had the knack with the damn thing. My hand eye is not-so-good.
It looks like the TBM 220 is gone. They only show the TBM 115...... Bet it's voltage.
So that's where I think I will end up.
You saved me a ton. I understand exactly what you are saying about moving an x/y sled for lots of random holes.
I would not have been happy.
Many thanks
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I am glad if I was helpful, indeed TBM115 is for the US market.
Read this topic if you didn’t
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/electrician's-drill-stand/15/
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And I wasn't going to write a post on the Proxxon questions. "Nah, I got it down..."
I am so thankful for the information. I'm still shaking my head.
Before I run....
I think I ran across a photo of a laser mod for a Proxxon unit. Is there one for the press?
Or is it BS and just drill the damn holes !
Lastly...
Where should I buy my bits?