Starting a new beginner lab

[Rigby]

Hi, all.

I've been working at a job where profit-sharing is the norm, and will occur mid-December.  I've been wanting to get started on a semi-capable electronics lab for a long, long while, now.  After my wife takes her cut, I'm going to have about USD$2,000 to get a very basic electronics lab going.

What I already have:

• Tek 7633 (100MHz 4 channel analog scope.)
• 2 handheld Multimeters; 1 Extech, 1 Fluke.  The Fluke doesn't have an amp or milliamp range, only microamp.
• HP 6201B power supply (0-20V, 0-1.5A) that doesn't max out, and I'm not sure if it's supposed to.  (Can't get full rated current at full rated voltage.)
• Breadboard, some jumpers, and a small quantity of basic through hole parts acquired from clearance sales at Radio Shack.
• Almost no component storage.

What I think I might need:

• More capable power supplies.  Not sure if a DP832 (Assume a Rev 3 board) would do here, or if 3 of those Korad 30V 5A would work as well.  I assume those Korads have floating outputs, but I'm not sure.
• Digital Scope.  REALLY want an Agilent DSOX2002, then upgrade it at tax-time, but that would probably eat too much current budget, I think.  Looking at a Rigol DS1104Z-S instead.  Not sure if the DS2072As that are available now are hackable.  I'm not going to get a DS1102 or DS1052.
• Soldering iron.  Nope, don't have one.  Looking at the FX-888D.  I really want the non-digital version, but I'm not sure if it will be available at all by the time I place an order.
• Lots more components and component storage, of course.

I'm going to be doing analog and digital stuff, but mostly digital to start, as I'm a programmer by trade and training and digital is more familiar to me.

Known projects on the horizon:

• My daughter has ADHD and having a rigid schedule helps her a great deal.  I want to build a semi-large LED signboard so she can see what she should be doing now, how much time she has left, and what's next.  Will double as a family calendar with upcoming birthdays and the like.
• 7-segment GPS disciplined clocks.  I'm dead tired of all my clocks drifting at different rates and not being correct.
• I have an arcade hobby on the side.  Tube-based monitors look best (by far) on arcade machines, but there are no chassis available used or new where all the parts on the PCB are still available.  I want to design and build an arcade CRT chassis where all the parts are available today.  I'll probably post a lot about this project once I get it going.
• Possibly, power supplies for the above.
• Lots of other things I can't seem to remember right now.

What do you folks think I should start with?  Soldering iron is pretty much a given, but which one?  Also, is there any software that I will need at all?

Thanks for any and all opinions.

[makerimages]

Cadsoft Eagle might help
http://www.cadsoftusa.com/download-eagle/?language=en


Get an arduino. For the Arcade, I might just say you use the Z80 CPU if you want authenticity, that`s what most old consoles are based on and it is still being manufactred today by Zilog.
http://www.arduino.cc/
http://www.zilog.com/

[Rigby]

I'm not talking about the arcade games themselves, I'm talking about the electronics that control the monitor.  The arcade monitor chassis.

[Quick5pnt0]

Being a beginner electronics hobbyist I don't have much to add but I can recommend the Hakko 888D. I picked one up earlier this year on ebay for about $80 US and it is the best soldering iron I've ever owned. At first I wasn't sure if the digital interface would be a pain to use but switching temps is pretty straight forward and becomes second nature in no time. Besides, I don't know what it is but I just love watching the temp rise and fall on the display after you reset it. 

[mianchen]

As a forever beginner myself, I can see you need a proper "electronic" DMM, a soldering iron, some hand tools, breadboard or prototype boards some basic components, wires (test leads, hook up wires etc) .... Other fancy equipment can be bought when necessary. You don't have to blown $2000 straight away do you?

[Dave Turner]

makerimages

As a small aside I still have a 'Zilog Z80-CPU Programming Reference Card' from when I ordered a Z80 microprocessor in 1974. Since it was the IC I used to homebrew my first real computer I couldn't bear to part with it when everything else had to go.

Memories are made of this

[Rigby]

You don't have to blow $2000 straight away do you?

I don't have to, no, and I probably won't.  I do need a digital scope, logic analyzer, and soldering iron pretty quickly, though, if I'm to progress much.  I'm going to wind up spending a lot more on little bits like hookup wires and components than I plan to spend; I feel that's a very safe prediction.  Fortunately, an electronics project just came up at work (no one else knows how to do it and I'm lowest man on the totem pole) so I might be able to expense some of the less costly items which are directly related to the project.  So, that's nice.  We got a 3D printer to demo to upper management and now it sits at my desk, so I have an enclosure generator now, too.  I'm pretty fortunate in this position.

[kxenos]

I would skip the DSO for now and just buy a reasonable hobbyist logic analyzer, maybe Saleae or similar. Also a $50 chinese hot air rework station for the occasional SMD repair. You would also need a programmer /w JTAG interface like the AVRdragon or Microchip PICIT. I would also consider the STM32F4Discovery board. You know, ARM cortex M4 /w floating point unit dev board for just $15 is pretty nice!
I know the DSO is a temptation but for now you have absolutely no need for it.

[nanofrog]

Good to be thinking about the supplies/small odds-n-ends IMHO.  But how are you set for hand tools?

[Rigby]

Good to be thinking about the supplies/small odds-n-ends IMHO.  But how are you set for hand tools?

I have various screwdrivers and nut drivers and the like.  I could use a proper set of engineering screwdrivers, I suppose, but I have everything I have needed so far, except some very tiny little torx bits I discovered today on a broken 1st generation B&N Nook e-reader.

[nanofrog]

Good to be thinking about the supplies/small odds-n-ends IMHO.  But how are you set for hand tools?

I have various screwdrivers and nut drivers and the like.  I could use a proper set of engineering screwdrivers, I suppose, but I have everything I have needed so far, except some very tiny little torx bits I discovered today on a broken 1st generation B&N Nook e-reader.

Wiha offers a lot of precision screwdrivers (individual drivers or handles that take bits). Couple of good cutters & pliers would be good to have if you don't already, maybe a couple of hemostats, dental picks, and tweezers as well (i.e. #5 & #7 styles are really handy IMHO).

Good supplies can add up pretty quick too, such as a good roll of solder, flux, and desolder wick hitting ~$50 - 60. Add in parts and any tools, it can add up pretty quick, even with excellent bargain hunting skills.

Not sure what you need, but this stuff could eat $100 without much effort (or going crazy with expensive brands).

For a PSU (or other gear), I'm a fan of used as I prefer quality on the cheap if possible.  Can also allow for multiples, which is handy if you need more than one voltage supply for a project. Not sure about Korad, but there is a thread or two on that particular model.

As per a soldering iron, the analog version of the Hakko will be harder to find now. The Weller WES51 is still available, and uses a knob. But if you wanted a bit more than what either of these can do, you might want to take a look at the Hakko FX-951. All digital, but it offers features neither the WES51 or FX-888 (either version) do, such as setback temp when the iron is placed in the stand (helps immensely with tip life).

Just not quite sure what you need or are after to be more specific. 

[Rigby]

Just not quite sure what you need or are after to be more specific. 

No worries.  Part of knowing what you're doing is knowing what questions to ask, and I don't quite know what I'm doing, yet.   

I would skip the DSO for now and just buy a reasonable hobbyist logic analyzer, maybe Saleae or similar. Also a $50 chinese hot air rework station for the occasional SMD repair. You would also need a programmer /w JTAG interface like the AVRdragon or Microchip PICIT. I would also consider the STM32F4Discovery board. You know, ARM cortex M4 /w floating point unit dev board for just $15 is pretty nice!

I've not heard of that STM32 board.  I will definitely look it up.  The Saleae is definitely on my list.  I'm about to start a project controlling a pile of 5x7 LED matrices over I2C, so I imagine this logic analyzer will come in very handy.

I know the DSO is a temptation but for now you have absolutely no need for it.

Well, having a digital scope with the ability to capture runt pulses would help a lot when repairing arcade monitors.  It isn't necessary at all, usually; given a make & model you can know what's wrong entirely from symptoms, but if it's a symptom you've not encountered before, a digital scope would help a great deal.  I use my analog scope a lot when probing old analog stuff like this, and it's amazing what you can discern if your eyes are fast enough to catch transitions.  I have a somewhat rare ability to vibrate my eyes side to side quickly enough to determine if an LED is PWM driven or not, which also helps me see a lot of nuances when looking at an analog scope, but having a digital scope with a precise set of trigger conditions would be most excellent.  My eyes aren't what they used to be, either.

So, in short, you're 100% correct; I don't need it, but it would help, and I'm probably going to get one anyway, just so I can go further poking around inside analog stuff.

[nanofrog]

No worries.  Part of knowing what you're doing is knowing what questions to ask, and I don't quite know what I'm doing, yet.   

None at all.  Just hoping to get a better idea (for direction) as the discussion goes on. 

Well, having a digital scope with the ability to capture runt pulses would help a lot when repairing arcade monitors.  It isn't necessary at all, usually; given a make & model you can know what's wrong entirely from symptoms, but if it's a symptom you've not encountered before, a digital scope would help a great deal.  I use my analog scope a lot when probing old analog stuff like this, and it's amazing what you can discern if your eyes are fast enough to catch transitions.  I have a somewhat rare ability to vibrate my eyes side to side quickly enough to determine if an LED is PWM driven or not, which also helps me see a lot of nuances when looking at an analog scope, but having a digital scope with a precise set of trigger conditions would be most excellent.  My eyes aren't what they used to be, either.

So, in short, you're 100% correct; I don't need it, but it would help, and I'm probably going to get one anyway, just so I can go further poking around inside analog stuff.

What exactly do you need/want in a DSO?

Since you have an analog model, it might be worth saving up for a DSO that offers more than just the basics (i.e. more than just screen capture as an improvement over an analog). Such as getting the Agilent X2000 vs. a Rigol 1052E (or whatever model would really get you what you want; Rigol has some more advanced models that are quite attractive). If you need extras such as decode options, ... types of things for example, a different/next model up may be more cost effective due to what's included as standard features for future projects (expanded from current capabilities or what the least expensive DSO could handle).

Given so many options, one thing or another could make a notable dent in your budget. So getting a better idea of what's the highest priority/need could help with that. For example, put the money into the tools you use most, and go with less expensive alternatives as you move down the list as they won't get as much use might be the best way to go (less frustration on a daily basis  ).

[staxquad]

Good to be thinking about the supplies/small odds-n-ends IMHO.  But how are you set for hand tools?

I have various screwdrivers and nut drivers and the like.  I could use a proper set of engineering screwdrivers, I suppose, but I have everything I have needed so far, except some very tiny little torx bits I discovered today on a broken 1st generation B&N Nook e-reader.

Wiha offers a lot of precision screwdrivers (individual drivers or handles that take bits). Couple of good cutters & pliers would be good to have if you don't already, maybe a couple of hemostats, dental picks, and tweezers as well (i.e. #5 & #7 styles are really handy IMHO).

Good supplies can add up pretty quick too, such as a good roll of solder, flux, and desolder wick hitting ~$50 - 60. Add in parts and any tools, it can add up pretty quick, even with excellent bargain hunting skills.

Not sure what you need, but this stuff could eat $100 without much effort (or going crazy with expensive brands).

For a PSU (or other gear), I'm a fan of used as I prefer quality on the cheap if possible.  Can also allow for multiples, which is handy if you need more than one voltage supply for a project. Not sure about Korad, but there is a thread or two on that particular model.

As per a soldering iron, the analog version of the Hakko will be harder to find now. The Weller WES51 is still available, and uses a knob. But if you wanted a bit more than what either of these can do, you might want to take a look at the Hakko FX-951. All digital, but it offers features neither the WES51 or FX-888 (either version) do, such as setback temp when the iron is placed in the stand (helps immensely with tip life).

Just not quite sure what you need or are after to be more specific. 

still 15 left
http://www.stanleysupplyservices.com/hakko-fx-888-esd-safe-soldering-station-w-65-watt-soldering-iron-tip/p/476-185

[zapta]

After my wife takes her cut, I'm going to have about USD$2,000 to get a very basic electronics lab going

Since you asked for an advice ;-)

1. $2000 is way too high for a 'basic' hobbyist lab.

2. Some of the projects you mentioned (e.g. that time tracking device for your daughter, GPS clock) I would implement in software using a  cheap tablet.

3. As for DSO, I would definitely get one, e.g. a cheap Rigol, and sell the analog scope you have.

4. It does not matter what tools you have, it matters what you do with them.

5. Don't forget to save for retirement.

[ElectroIrradiator]

My advice would be to only buy something expensive, like an instrument, once you are certain you actually do and will continue to need it. I find it is way too easy to spend big on new equipment, which you may actually not need that much. Only to later realize you don't have any saving left over for that crucial instrument you suddenly realized you do need.

There are of course some fundamental tools, like a good soldering iron, which are a given. However, as a beginner you may not yet know exactly where your interests may take you in the near future.

[pickle9000]

Repairs on the arcade machines, is that correct? Are you planning on selling refurbished machines?

[Rigby]

Repairs on the arcade machines, is that correct? Are you planning on selling refurbished machines?

No, these are for me and my family.

1. $2000 is way too high for a 'basic' hobbyist lab.

I don't know... the consumables add up quick, and I make a lot of mistakes.  I don't plan on spending it all at once, either.

2. Some of the projects you mentioned (e.g. that time tracking device for your daughter, GPS clock) I would implement in software using a  cheap tablet.

I know software and I know tablets.  I'm not interested in doing things I already know how to do.  GPS module + Arduino + MAX7219 + 4-digit 7-segment LED display.  After I get those done and everyone is happy, I'll use WWV and a homebrew receiver to do the same.

3. As for DSO, I would definitely get one, e.g. a cheap Rigol, and sell the analog scope you have.

I'm keeping the Tek7633, even if I don't use it, it's a thing of beauty.  I'm still thinking quite hard on the Agilent scope line, and yes, the Rigols as well.

4. It does not matter what tools you have, it matters what you do with them.

Agreed.

5. Don't forget to save for retirement.

Not to worry.  401(k) and savings come out before my wife or I get our shares.

[Rigby]

still 15 left
http://www.stanleysupplyservices.com/hakko-fx-888-esd-safe-soldering-station-w-65-watt-soldering-iron-tip/p/476-185

Ordered one yesterday from Amazon.  It'll be here Tuesday.

[Noize]

Yes you need the soldering iron and other bits and bobs to build stuff. And maybe a logic Analyzer especially since you are a programmer(saelae have a SDK to write your own protcocols etc...). Get a 16 channel one if you do. I got 8 channel and 16  would be more adequate.  The shear <-(if  I spelt that wrong in context would like the correct spelling thankyou) fact that you are asking this question means: You've got the soldering iron-yep essential. Just put the money in the bank. Just buy something "WHEN YOU NEED IT". Buy some good books.  PCB fabrication(hobbiest scale if you want to do it DIY or get the Charlie Chan companies to do it).

Don't be hasty!

[Rigby]

The shear <-(if  I spelt that wrong in context would like the correct spelling thankyou)

Sheer.  (Scroll down to the "adjective" section.) 

Shear (scroll to "noun" section) is not what you were looking for.

I linked them for your convenience, not as an insult.

[Noize]

Thanks that was what I asked for. O0 I knew it was wrong spelling wise.

[MrAureliusR]

3. As for DSO, I would definitely get one, e.g. a cheap Rigol, and sell the analog scope you have.

No offense but that is the WORST advice I've ever seen. You should never advise anyone to sell their analog scope. I wish I had one! I'm glad to see the OP is ignoring this bad piece of advice.

[Maturola]

3. As for DSO, I would definitely get one, e.g. a cheap Rigol, and sell the analog scope you have.

No offense but that is the WORST advice I've ever seen. You should never advise anyone to sell their analog scope. I wish I had one! I'm glad to see the OP is ignoring this bad piece of advice.

+1 to this, Hold that Analog Scope close to your heart =) (ok maybe not that close, but keep it).

I'll join the mass telling the OP to wait until you actually "need" something before you expend the money, your budget is pretty good for a "Beginner" lab and what you have to start up is pretty cool. Look and read some reviews on the solder station and get one of those and then start working on your projects and order equipment  as you need it

Also hanging around here and the "test Equipment" section of this forums doesn't really help to stay away from buying cool stuff =)

[zapta]

No offense but that is the WORST advice I've ever seen. You should never advise anyone to sell their analog scope. I wish I had one! I'm glad to see the OP is ignoring this bad piece of advice.

What is the main reason, for their usefulness or as collector items?

I used analog scopes professionally for few years, including ones with memory memory, but since I started to use DSOs am not looking back.