I'd be curious to see the operating cost comparisons in AU. How much is Petrol vs electricity?
here in Metro Vancouver it's C$1.41/litre and C$0.10/kWh for electricity. It means the operating costs of my EV is 1/6th of that of an ICE car.
Doesn't matter when the EV costs 10's of thousands more than an ICE car.
BTW I just decommissioned a 12yo IBM laptop battery. Left is old cell, right is new. Same size. Same capacity. The only improvement I see is that the newer one has faster charge/discharge. I discourage everybody to buy a full EV unless they only plan to use it in the big city and even then consider that at the moment we have zero, nil, nada recycleable parts in a lithium battery. So consider it very very un-green. Dead-end technology as far as I'm concerned.
BTW I just decommissioned a 12yo IBM laptop battery. Left is old cell, right is new. Same size. Same capacity. The only improvement I see is that the newer one has faster charge/discharge. I discourage everybody to buy a full EV unless they only plan to use it in the big city and even then consider that at the moment we have zero, nil, nada recycleable parts in a lithium battery. So consider it very very un-green. Dead-end technology as far as I'm concerned.EV batteries have proven to have good lifetimes - many well over 200K miles.
Once the car has died, or capacity reduced too much, it can have a second life as renewables storage for home or grid. That alone could easily offset any end-of-life recycling issues.
ISTR that some EV battery recycling trials started but had a problem of not enough batteries to recycle as they were lasting so long!
It is too soon to draw this conclusion. There is so much develoment and progress in all these areas going on that even the huge companies have no idea what we will end up with. That is also the reason why it is not a good idea to buy an EV for long term (>5 years) use as a private individual if costs are a concern.
It is too soon to draw this conclusion. There is so much develoment and progress in all these areas going on that even the huge companies have no idea what we will end up with. That is also the reason why it is not a good idea to buy an EV for long term (>5 years) use as a private individual if costs are a concern.
For the skeptics, it will always be "too soon".
EVs are clearly the future: sure, there may be improvements in the technology, but they are mature in many ways. Concerns about charging stations are misguided. Type2 CCS is a standard, and it has a long term vision for 350+ kW charging. It is enshrined in law, the EU requires all new EVs to have CCS as standard (which is why the Model 3 has one and the Model S didn't, although it will soon, and the CCS port can be retrofitted.) Fundamentally EVs charge on 230V AC for most home usage, high power DC charging is reserved for long trips. Are you suggesting that we are likely to move away from 230V AC? Because you might find your EV is the least of your problems then.
Biofuels will not be practical at scale for a simple reason, and that is because to meet carbon targets we need to be building out trees/forests on the land we would use for biofuels, not burning the alcohol or diesel that these crops can produce. The efficiency of photosynthesis is something like 2% so it is laughable to say that we could power the planet from biofuels at anywhere near the current scale we achieve. Solar PV charging EVs would be almost 15x more efficient in land area. Biogas/biodiesel will probably find some use in esoteric applications, e.g. mandated for site generators where grid connection is not viable, or perhaps in aviation.
Hydrogen FCEVs are unlikely to be practical because - well, just look at the technology. To go 300 miles you need to use half your cargo area up to fit the tanks. You still need a lithium ion battery pack to have regen braking and to provide a power boost because the fuel cell stack can only output 80kW. So to get acceptable performance they add a 5kWh lithium ion battery which is more than half of what you get in a current generation PHEV.
This is another excellent vid on the economics from someone who knows battery chemistry inside out, showing that how EV can work out cheaper than a cheap or free ICE car - start about 30 mins in.
The Renault Zoe is, and it is cheap, compared to here, starting at 37000 AUD. Which is very expensive for a small town car of course.
This is another excellent vid on the economics from someone who knows battery chemistry inside out, showing that how EV can work out cheaper than a cheap or free ICE car - start about 30 mins in.
Sorry but you are completely wrong. For example: the 3rd generation bio-fuels don't need extra land. Just the parts of the plants we don't eat and there is plenty of such leftovers to make a large quantity of fuel and enough if ICE cars get more efficient (around 80 to 90 grams of CO2 per km).
Also the calculated cost for hydrogen infrastructure is 4 times less compared to that needed for electric cars. You should really study the latest state of technology and you'll see the future hasn't been set in stone at all.
I'd be curious to see the operating cost comparisons in AU. How much is Petrol vs electricity?
here in Metro Vancouver it's C$1.41/litre and C$0.10/kWh for electricity. It means the operating costs of my EV is 1/6th of that of an ICE car.
It will be interesting to follow biofuels, no doubt. However, current biofuel production still requires farmland to produce the product. 3rd generation biofuels are still in the R&D stage and investors like Exxon and most other research organisations have dropped algae biofuels.
I'd be curious to see the operating cost comparisons in AU. How much is Petrol vs electricity?
here in Metro Vancouver it's C$1.41/litre and C$0.10/kWh for electricity. It means the operating costs of my EV is 1/6th of that of an ICE car.
Did you include insurance into consideration?
The vast majority of users will be able to charge at home
The cheapest way to own an electric car is probably related to the cheapest way to own an ICE car: Keep it boring... buy a popular, proven, and reliable mass market model from a major manufacturer; stay away from the first few years of a new model.
Electric cars have not been around long enough (and have not been popular enough) for this to be possible yet.And buy a 3-6 year old used car for significant lifecycle savings as well.
Many EVs are available in that age range, though as a happy 2015 LEAF owner, if you want the cheapest motoring, you probably want a 10 year old Honda or Toyota ICE car.
You need insurance for any car. Some people see high insurance prices for Teslas and think that means EVs are expensive to insure. Actually, its mostly because the Teslas are so fast. Compare insuring of a model 3 with a high performance BMW and the insurance rates are not that different. The insurance rates for luxury cars are all tending to rise because of modern safety systems. They reduce the crash rate, but they make repairs very expensive.
You need insurance for any car. Some people see high insurance prices for Teslas and think that means EVs are expensive to insure. Actually, its mostly because the Teslas are so fast. Compare insuring of a model 3 with a high performance BMW and the insurance rates are not that different. The insurance rates for luxury cars are all tending to rise because of modern safety systems. They reduce the crash rate, but they make repairs very expensive.And Teslas are PITA to repair. They use these fancy aluminium welding and other methods that a general purpose shop is not prepared to do. And replacement parts are super expensive. There is a guy online, he had to replace a model S door, and it was 6000 USD.
You need insurance for any car. Some people see high insurance prices for Teslas and think that means EVs are expensive to insure. Actually, its mostly because the Teslas are so fast. Compare insuring of a model 3 with a high performance BMW and the insurance rates are not that different. The insurance rates for luxury cars are all tending to rise because of modern safety systems. They reduce the crash rate, but they make repairs very expensive.And Teslas are PITA to repair. They use these fancy aluminium welding and other methods that a general purpose shop is not prepared to do. And replacement parts are super expensive. There is a guy online, he had to replace a model S door, and it was 6000 USD.There are numerous horror stories on YouTube about long delays and high costs for Tesla repairs, both crash repairs and breakdown repairs. In particular, people with minor bumps at the corners seem to end up with a crazy amount of the car being replaced. That's not really an electric car issue, though. Its a Tesla problem.
I'd be curious to see the operating cost comparisons in AU. How much is Petrol vs electricity?
here in Metro Vancouver it's C$1.41/litre and C$0.10/kWh for electricity. It means the operating costs of my EV is 1/6th of that of an ICE car.Did you include insurance into consideration?You need insurance for any car. Some people see high insurance prices for Teslas and think that means EVs are expensive to insure. Actually, its mostly because the Teslas are so fast. Compare insuring of a model 3 with a high performance BMW and the insurance rates are not that different. The insurance rates for luxury cars are all tending to rise because of modern safety systems. They reduce the crash rate, but they make repairs very expensive.
The Leaf is definitely at an attractive price point, especially used - but the range is not very good, it seems to me. Probably need a Honda generator in the trunk in case of emergencies!
Most Australians still rely on their cars for daily commuting. Aside from long travel distance, traffic congestion is another important factor in increasing commuting times. Encouraging alternative travel modes for commuting could potentially relieve congestion.
The HILDA Survey reveals that close to 28 per cent of workers live and work in the same postcode. About 55% of workers live within 10km of their place of work. This suggests there is a huge potential to promote active travel – cycling and walking – for daily commuting trips. Only for a minority (11 per cent) are the postcodes of the home and place of work 30 or more kilometres apart.
I am with Dave in the Corolla camp . I have a 2019 Corolla LE I got for ~ 13K USD. These Corolla-s just work...period. For the money there is no comparison - total cost of ownership is one of the best you can get. I got over 200K miles on it and the only thing I ever put in/on it was gas, oil and tires. I want to see a Tesla beat that cost / mile - when it does I buy one .