EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)

[AlxDroidDev]

UPDATE!
After all this time, Batteroo have finally contacted me directly.
Turns out they were watching the live testing show were I mentioned they have never contacted me, so they did, Ali BTW (not Bob).

Dammit! If I knew they're watching, I'd have written several messages directed at them in the chat window.

They were very cordial and invited me to do formal testing for them.

And cordial they should be, not matter how impossible it is for them to be cordial. They've been, so far, anything but cordial, polite or respectful, and that goes for that brown-nosed doormat of theirs, the guy doem Darwin.

I turned them down.
But ironically I'm already doing that for them already 

You're doing an independent test, without any restrains, without any obligation with batteroo.

If you do anything on their behalf, and get you to sign a NDA, rest assured that the first thing they'll do is to try and cash in on the market value of the words: "Tested by EEVBLOG".

OTOH, if you can turn this around, and have them free you to publish any result you want, and force them to publish all of your results and final report on their website, it might be a good idea.

[PeterL]

https://www.batteroo.com/contest

[Luminax]

It's just occurred to me that Batteriser have now finally been as honest and realistic as they have ever been in their marketing.
They have moved from the whole 800% and x8 BS to the 80% unused (x5) BS, to now the "performance or extra time" tradeoff marketing on active vs passive loads which is basically true at it's face value.

Passive loads like the toy train should perform better for a shorter period, and I've demoed that in my train video. And of course it's one of the reasons why DC-DC converters are built into products like almost all torches now. But in the example of the train it's not going to be a huge difference, but still, it's there. You trade off performance for time.

Active loads is were the BS still stinks though, as they are still pushing the line that devices have high cut off voltages and that 80% of energy remains unused etc, and that's completely busted, but still would be technically true in a few niche products they have still yet to demo after several years at this.

It's interesting to see how their claims and marketing have changed over all this time, and seems a classic case of them now finally realising the reality of how useless this product is practice. Yet they are so far down the rabbit hole that they still can't admit it, but their marketing has had to morph to the reality over time.

My guess would be that they're ticking out of time for the first VC and is getting weird glances or even downright weird questioning from the second VC...

Usually, from my limitted experience with these kind of things, they have a 'timeframe' whereupon the VC would no doubt want to see some sort of return or at least a prospect of a return. The delay to the inevitable was probably due to the fact that it's not the main HQ that's stepping their feet into a deep pool of doo-doo so to speak, but instead the US branch, and from what I've seen these 'branches' usually runs almost entirely independent and HQ doesn't care as long as it's not a world-shattering loss.

The second VC however... hmmmmmmmm

There might have been a few people who were initially jumping on the 'gravy train' that went  somewhere along the way.
I do remember there has been some reshuffle and something somewhere along the line/

But meh.... business... I'm usually either or or just plain  on that front

Edit: I just noticed the contest link... WTF??

NEED TO SUBMIT TO WIN GREAT PRIZE!

 

[SeanB]

You're doing an independent test, without any restrains, without any obligation with batteroo.

If you do anything on their behalf, and get you to sign a NDA, rest assured that the first thing they'll do is to try and cash in on the market value of the words: "Tested by EEVBLOG".

OTOH, if you can turn this around, and have them free you to publish any result you want, and force them to publish all of your results and final report on their website, it might be a good idea.

Never will happen, they would cherrypick results and put that up, never mind the rest of the dismal results. Yes there would be a NDA for sure, and we all know just how Dave responds to those, I think in the lines of Bender and his shiny metal backside.

I prefer the individual test results, and if Batterpoo wants to send some my way, I can test them, the arc welder is fine, the neon transformer is plugged in , and Gentle persuasion needs some exercise.on the rail slipper.

[kalleboo]

https://www.batteroo.com/contest

"a chance to win our $500 pre-paid gift cards."

It says *our* prepaid gift cards. Does that mean it's only valid for $500 worth of more Batteroos?

Or does "our gift cards" mean the ones they got as Christmas presents and don't need because they're only valid at Bed Bath and Beyond?

[PeterL]

https://www.batteroo.com/contest

"a chance to win our $500 pre-paid gift cards."

It says *our* prepaid gift cards. Does that mean it's only valid for $500 worth of more Batteroos?

Or does "our gift cards" mean the ones they got as Christmas presents and don't need because they're only valid at Bed Bath and Beyond?

Oh yeah, I was only triggered by the $500,-, and wasn't going to play anyway, even if I had sleeves.
But the "terms and conditions" are very clear:
https://www.batteroo.com/terms-conditions/?___store=default#contest

PRIZES.

One (1) Prize winner will receive $500 USD.

[SeanB]

https://www.batteroo.com/contest

"a chance to win our $500 pre-paid gift cards."

It says *our* prepaid gift cards. Does that mean it's only valid for $500 worth of more Batteroos?

Or does "our gift cards" mean the ones they got as Christmas presents and don't need because they're only valid at Bed Bath and Beyond?

Probably a mix of both. $500 off a bulk load of Batteriser at full recommended retail ( which you never pay anyway), but you have to pay an inflated shipping price, and they will chuck some random cards from some obscure retail store in there for the rest of them, probably those which came as gifts and which are of no use to them " Hey what do I do with a $500 voucher for the East side Vasectomy clinic 2 for one special?" style

[WN1X]

https://www.batteroo.com/contest

And let's not forget what happens to your video if you win:

Furthermore, winners will be required to sign and return a “Transfer of Copyright” form as requested by Sponsor. Winners hereby acknowledges and understands that under such Transfer of Copyright form, he/she will be assigning exclusively, irrevocably, and in perpetuity, and on a royalty-free basis to Sponsor (or to Sponsor’s affiliates) all copyright ownership and all other proprietary rights in and to his/her Video, such that Sponsor (and its affiliates) will have the unrestricted right to edit the Video in any manner and to use (or not use) the Video for any and all purposes whatsoever (including, without limitation, the creation of derivative works, and/or any and all other forms of commercial or non-commercial exploitation), regardless of whether or not related to the Contest.

[PA0PBZ]

"will have the unrestricted right to edit the Video in any manner "

Really? Is that how they turn a faillure into a profit? 

[Julius]

Looks like Julian found a product which theoretically could benefit from Batteriser (but I am sure the batteries won't fit):



It shuts down at 1.35v!

See excerpts 2:45-3:09 and 25:05-25:35

[FrankBuss]

https://www.batteroo.com/contest

Nice, I submitted a video, but I guess my chances are low for winning

[rrinker]

 Not sure if there are guidelines elsewhere, but despite how long the battery actually lasts in the smoke alarm, every fire department around here has a campaign reminding you to replace it every 6 months. Since we still do that silly daylight savings time bullshit, this is when they recommend you replace the smoke alarm battery - sort of an automatic reminder. It was mentioned by someone else - the key is not that there is enough power available to run the detector circuit, but that it can actually sound the alarm, which needs much more current. Batteries I've taken out work fine in other devices for almost the typical life of a brand new one in the same device, so 6 months of just monitoring clearly doesn't put that much of a hit on the battery, but I do swap all mine twice a year.

[drussell]

Nice, I submitted a video, but I guess my chances are low for winning

They could always "let" you win so they could force you to take down the full video, then modify it heavily to somehow make it look like the Batteroo sleeve is doing something useful...  Anything useful... 

[mzacharias]

I almost hate to suggest this - but the (ugh) Batterizer might actually have helped extract more battery life with my (now departed) Fluke 28II.
Reason being that the 28II low-battery function cuts off at about 1.4 volts per cell and makes you replace the batteries prematurely, while they still should have lots of life left. Keeping the nominal voltage at 1.5 or so would probably help keep it going much longer, as the actual drain in use is only a couple milli-amps unless the back-light is on.

Thoughts?

[DavidD345]

I received my "Batteriser" order yesterday.  It is now called "Batteroo" but I got some of the first to be manufactured, still with the "Batteriser" name on them.

I tested the two AA batteries in my wireless keyboard.  They both showed 1.427v.  I placed the Batteroo sleeves on them and tested again.  Both showed 1.516v.  I am optimistic* that these products work as advertised but I'll know for sure a year from now if my keyboard battery level still shows "100%".

*Optimistic is not the word to use here.  I should have said, "I am 'interested' to see if these products work as advertised...", but after reading several replies I can see that they may just be a money-maker for the entrepreneur who put them on the market.  Regardless, I have 8 of them so I'll use them for a while and see what happens.

[Hensingler]

https://www.batteroo.com/contest

Guess they have given up trying to find a product where batteriser provides benefit and thought it worth $500 to see if anyone else can.

[meeder]

  I am optimistic that these products work as advertised but I'll know for sure a year from now if my keyboard battery level still shows "100%".

Optimistic? You did see the video's that Frank and Dave made?

[Ysjoelfir]

I received my "Batteriser" order yesterday.  It is now called "Batteroo" but I got some of the first to be manufactured, still with the "Batteriser" name on them.

I tested the two AA batteries in my wireless keyboard.  They both showed 1.427v.  I placed the Batteroo sleeves on them and tested again.  Both showed 1.516v.  I am optimistic that these products work as advertised but I'll know for sure a year from now if my keyboard battery level still shows "100%".

Hi David and welcome to the EEVBlog Forum! Thank you for your post, but keep one thing in mind: Nobody ever doubted that the Batterizer will boost the voltage up so that the battery gauge shows 100%. The problem is, that
- you will never know when your device is going to fail since the battery gauge is coupled to the battery voltage, so it will always say 100% - except when it suddenly says 0% because the batterizer shut off. So keep some spare batteries around!
- the runtime could possibly not be enhanced, since the batterizer itself wastes energy in the process of boosting the voltage (switching losses), so your runtime could potentialy be even less, depending on the device you have.
- most modern products already have a "batterizer"-circuit (called boost converter) built in, so there is no point in using yet another batterizer - Batteroo itself says that, even though not that clearly: they admit that the product shouldn't be used in "active products" - which would be most of todays products using batteries.

Never the less, have fun playing around with the batteriser, I personally had much fun with it, seeing about the flaws of the product. If you like, take a look at the batteriser measurement thread -> https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/batteroo-testing/ <- where we discuss actual measurement of the product.

[DavidD345]

I just viewed the videos a few minutes after posting.  Interesting, and maybe not so optimistic. 

[roog]

And let's not forget what happens to your video if you win:

Furthermore, winners will be required to sign and return a “Transfer of Copyright” form as requested by Sponsor. Winners hereby acknowledges and understands that under such Transfer of Copyright form, he/she will be assigning exclusively, irrevocably, and in perpetuity, and on a royalty-free basis to Sponsor (or to Sponsor’s affiliates) all copyright ownership and all other proprietary rights in and to his/her Video, such that Sponsor (and its affiliates) will have the unrestricted right to edit the Video in any manner and to use (or not use) the Video for any and all purposes whatsoever (including, without limitation, the creation of derivative works, and/or any and all other forms of commercial or non-commercial exploitation), regardless of whether or not related to the Contest.

Actually, it's worse than that.  At the very beginning of the Terms and Conditions, it states that this is applicable to each entrant.  Thus, Batteroo will be able to use this as a ploy to censor unfavorable videos.  Do not submit your videos to Batteroo.

[Hensingler]

I tested the two AA batteries in my wireless keyboard.  They both showed 1.427v.  I placed the Batteroo sleeves on them and tested again.  Both showed 1.516v.  I am optimistic that these products work as advertised but I'll know for sure a year from now if my keyboard battery level still shows "100%".

Someone with a multimeter thinks batterisers are going to work - smells fishy

Regardless even if batterisers doubled your keyboard battery life to two years the $5 you spent on them would buy 12 decent AA batteries and it will take you 12 years to break even. After 2029 you will be raking in the money at well over 1 cent per week, bet you can't wait.

Later edit:
Sorry if that came across as unfriendly it wasn't meant to. The only hate around here is towards batteriseroo for selling the snake oil on indiegogo.  The point is for something with batteries that last a year or two the battery cost and so scope for savings is pretty trivial. It is even hard to justify low self discharge NiMH batteries for such application and they are much much more sensible that batterisers.

[FrankBuss]

And let's not forget what happens to your video if you win:

Furthermore, winners will be required to sign and return a “Transfer of Copyright” form as requested by Sponsor. Winners hereby acknowledges and understands that under such Transfer of Copyright form, he/she will be assigning exclusively, irrevocably, and in perpetuity, and on a royalty-free basis to Sponsor (or to Sponsor’s affiliates) all copyright ownership and all other proprietary rights in and to his/her Video, such that Sponsor (and its affiliates) will have the unrestricted right to edit the Video in any manner and to use (or not use) the Video for any and all purposes whatsoever (including, without limitation, the creation of derivative works, and/or any and all other forms of commercial or non-commercial exploitation), regardless of whether or not related to the Contest.

Actually, it's worse than that.  At the very beginning of the Terms and Conditions, it states that this is applicable to each entrant.  Thus, Batteroo will be able to use this as a ploy to censor unfavorable videos.  Do not submit your videos to Batteroo.

It says only winners have to sign and return a “Transfer of Copyright” form, and so far I didn't sign and returned anything, and might be a good idea not to do it, if I win. And for Germany you can't even transfer the copyright, only grant exclusive exploitation right, the creator holds always all copyrights, so this would be an interesting legal case I guess.

PS: I released my video under the Creative Commons license, clone it in Youtube while you can (just a mouse click for such videos)

[PeterL]

https://www.batteroo.com/contest

Guess they have given up trying to find a product where batteriser provides benefit and thought it worth $500 to see if anyone else can.

Personally I don't think it's that strange that they try something to get people post video's. It should help to get the buzz going. It's not that strange from a marketing point of view, also the fact the winner has to hand over his rights to the footage is not that weird.

I'm actually more surprised that Bob did not advertise this contest better.

Oh and how well the video demonstrates the benefits of the batteroo judges only for 30%, so you can still score 7 out of 10 Frank! 

[Fungus]

I tested the two AA batteries in my wireless keyboard.  They both showed 1.427v.  I placed the Batteroo sleeves on them and tested again.  Both showed 1.516v.  I am optimistic that these products work as advertised but I'll know for sure a year from now if my keyboard battery level still shows "100%".

I can garantee that there's no more chemical energy in the battery than before.

By boosting the voltage it just uses more current, ie. they'll run out faster.

[shabaz]

They've copied other terms and conditions from the Internet, and modified them. It might not be enforceable in some countries, but the damage is done if Batteroo decide to go ahead and manipulate videos, even negative videos, for their own advantage. These parts are quite alarming (I've bolded some of it and removed some bits and replaced with '...' ), they are keeping open the option to use and disclose personal information about entrants too:

By submitting an Entry, each entrant .... By submitting a Video, such entrant consents, by virtue of submitting his/her Entry to the Contest, to Sponsor’s use of the entrant’s name, likeness, videograph or image, whether in writing, audio, and/or video, for any purpose, in any media, without compensation or additional consideration to entrant. ....
...

By participating in this Contest, entrants are authorizing the transfer of personal data to the United States for purposes of administering the Contest, conducting publicity about the Contest and such additional purposes consistent with our goals or the Contest goals. By entering the Contest, entrants consent to our collection, use and disclosure of their personal information for these purposes..