EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)

[ez24]

Won't the prongs break off when pushing it in a tight fit or catching on metal connectors ?  Maybe this is the reason for "carefully install"  and limited use ?  Physically this seems like a failure.

Edit:

I just looked inside my stereo system (AAA MP3 player) and the top of the AAA cell goes into a recessed area that is just wide enough for the top of the battery.  I  am sure these would not fit.  Normally when I slide in a battery the top slides along plastic before it goes in.  If I were careful enough, the spring at the negative end gives way enough that the prongs would not hit the plastic, but it would take practice to avoid damage.  I think a re-seller is going to have a lot of returns and therefore trouble.

[LabSpokane]

If the electronics are potted, that has to be a total manufacturing train wreck. I could sure see an epoxy dot covering a chip-on-board though.  If the silicon's truly custom, why bother with packaging which will only make the foot print larger?

[Jay_Diddy_B]

Hi,

It pretty much has to be potted, or insulated, because the entire top surface (and the sides) is the positive terminal.

There is not a lot of room on a AAA cell. I have designed a board for AAA but never built it.

Regards,

Jay_Diddy_B

[EEVblog]

This is the email that comes if you got shipped a unit.
Courtesy of Wayne.

Dear Friends and supporters of Batteroo,
First off, I want to express my sincere thanks and gratitude for your support of the company through participating in our Indiegogo campaign. As we shipped the product, you were in the first wave of recipients of the product. By now, I am hoping and pretty sure that you have received your Batteroo sleeves and may have had a chance to play with them. We would love to hear from you with your comments, hopefully positive, but if not, we are still interested in learning about your experience with the devices. We are at the beginning of our journey to help everyone save money and time and help our environment; and we feel we are going to learn a lot.
As we mentioned in the earlier email to our Indiegogo supporters, we apologized for being late; and hinted at some of the difficulties we faced. Now that we have shipped the product, perhaps in the future, we can write a book on our adventure; and who knows, someone may turn the book into a movie like “who killed the Electric Car?”. Our only wish is that you hopefully feel that the product was worth the wait. Given all the delays however, we seemed to have developed a vocal minority of folks that are convinced this product is not going to ever ship. To remedy the situation, we would like to ask a favor of you. For those who have gotten the product, we would be grateful if you let the community know that it is actually here and you have received it. You can do that by going to Indiegogo campaign and write a comment to that fact. It would also be very helpful to us if you could mention the product, and you having received them on other social channels like Facebook, Instagram or Twitter. Any pictures of the product in your house and perhaps in a product would go a long way to put their minds to ease. Of course, any positive comments you may have is always appreciated. Once again , thank you for all your support up to now and thanks in advance for helping us with this campaign to let people know the product is real and works great….
Best,
Frankie Roohparvar

[ez24]

How much would it cost to design and make these?   Since these need custom ICs and exotic metal working and fittings, thus special tools.  What would a reasonable cost be?  It appears that 350k was not enough and Bob is looking for more money.

Would $1,000,000 US successfully bring a product like this to market?   Just curious

thanks

[LabSpokane]

OK, got an email from Wayne.  The poor guy is frustrated.   

Wayne, please let me apologize to you publicly if you felt trolled.  No one is against you.  I'm sorry if you feel mistreated.  That was not my intent, but probably the end result of my posts.  Bad on me. 

Please keep working with the sleeves and let us know how they work.  We're all pretty excited to see these things run through their paces. 

Good luck to you!  You're good people.   

===============================
ETA: I have made good on my offer to Wayne. 

[EEVblog]

OK, got an email from Wayne.  The poor guy is frustrated.   
Wayne, please let me apologize to you publicly if you felt trolled.  No one is against you.  I'm sorry if you feel mistreated.  That was not my intent, but probably the end result of my posts.  Bad on me. 
Please keep working with the sleeves and let us know how they work.  We're all pretty excited to see these things run through their paces. 
Good luck to you!  You're good people.   

I'm also politely conversing with Wayne on this, and he seems quite keen to do some testing on these and he has Battery experience.
As someone with Batterisers in hand, this is a really good thing.
So please, be kind to Wayne everyone, he's here to help.
Not sure if he'll join the forum or not, but I can pass on results.

[Halcyon]

OK, got an email from Wayne.  The poor guy is frustrated.   
Wayne, please let me apologize to you publicly if you felt trolled.  No one is against you.  I'm sorry if you feel mistreated.  That was not my intent, but probably the end result of my posts.  Bad on me. 
Please keep working with the sleeves and let us know how they work.  We're all pretty excited to see these things run through their paces. 
Good luck to you!  You're good people.   

I'm also politely conversing with Wayne on this, and he seems quite keen to do some testing on these and he has Battery experience.
As someone with Batterisers in hand, this is a really good thing.
So please, be kind to Wayne everyone, he's here to help.
Not sure if he'll join the forum or not, but I can pass on results.

Let's hope so, however basically abusing you and the forum members here was just poor form, frustrated or not. I'm sure everyone would welcome him on the forum.

The point of this entire thing is that no one wanted Batteriser to fail, why would we? It's just their claims and excuse after excuse after excuse is what caused this entire mess. Had Batteroo just been honest rather than fabricate and/or manipulate test data, certifications, etc... etc... no one would really give a toss.

[Brumby]

Wayne - if you get to read this then please do not take offence at any of the opinions expressed here.  I can only speak for myself, of course, but I think there will be a great many members who have had fair cause to be sceptical.  Some may have taken things to the extreme - but that's not exactly a rare thing on forums.

Despite all the hoo-haa, it has been a fervent hope of many people here that the Batteroo sleeve did actually make it out into the market.  Certainly everyone would want to know how it performs - whether to simply confirm their own engineering expectations or to see if Batteroo have done something special.

I don't expect it will deliver anything startling - but I can imagine it could prove useful in some situations.  I, for one, am keen to see what test results you get.  Hope to see some in the not-too-distant future.

[Brumby]

The point of this entire thing is that no one wanted Batteriser to fail, why would we? It's just their claims and excuse after excuse after excuse is what caused this entire mess. Had Batteroo just been honest rather than fabricate and/or manipulate test data, certifications, etc... etc... no one would really give a toss.

Pretty much.

[ez24]

I'm also politely conversing with Wayne on this, and he seems quite keen to do some testing on these and he has Battery experience.
As someone with Batterisers in hand, this is a really good thing.
So please, be kind to Wayne everyone, he's here to help.
Not sure if he'll join the forum or not, but I can pass on results.

It is funny that Australia would be the fist landing spot for these.      This has been like watching for aliens and they landed in Australia.

[sleemanj]

So, something exists, I think most will now be convinced of this.  Cool.

Now the question shifts from "does anything actually exist" (why Bob thought it a good idea to leave that question debated due to lack of sufficient evidence for so long I don't know, crazy) to "does it meet the promised specifications".

So has anybody put together a list of said promised specifications, I think some were (maybe quietly) dropped or changed, so I suppose one also needs to decide if they should still be tested or not.

[ccs46]

No, I will not sell any to you - you couldn't pay me enough.

You under estimate the power of our forums and how badly we want to disprove this thing...

This guy knows he talking to engineers right? Money is no object to us! 

[ez24]

So, something exists, I think most will now be convinced of this.  Cool.

Now the question shifts from "does anything actually exist" (why Bob thought it a good idea to leave that question debated due to lack of sufficient evidence for so long I don't know, crazy) to "does it meet the promised specifications".

So has anybody put together a list of said promised specifications, I think some were (maybe quietly) dropped or changed, so I suppose one also needs to decide if they should still be tested or not.

How about the prongs  see pic

[fubar.gr]

I just contacted the Greek guy by phone, to ask him if he has any Batteriser for sale.

Apparently, these are just samples, and shipments are expected to start on the new year.

He also told me it does indeed work as advertised.

[samgab]

Credit where credit is due. One thing I can say about what Wayne received is the packaging looks pretty slick.

[samgab]

That PCB edge looks like a rat's been having a good chew on it though:

[AndyC_772]

Does anyone see a CE mark, or any other mandatory approval mark, anywhere on the product or its packaging?

[EEVblog]

I just contacted the Greek guy by phone, to ask him if he has any Batteriser for sale.
Apparently, these are just samples, and shipments are expected to start on the new year.

Very interesting.
This would explain the relatively few people who have gotten them so far.
Also, how would a random IGG backer who was lucky enough to get one of the first units possibly know that information?

He also told me it does indeed work as advertised.

ARGH! 
We are going to hear this time and time again after everyone gets one.
They will measure the output voltage and it will be 1.5V on a dead battery. Or they will plug it into their product and the battery gauge will go to 100%
This is of course fully expected. Of course a voltage boost converter containing 4 parts works, it's electronics 101.
The product "working" and actually getting anywhere near the claims that have been made are two entirely different things.

I've said it before and I'll say it again for those non-technical people who might happen upon the forum, in extra bold large font size and bright colour for easy reference 

There isn't a single engineer on the planet that even remotely doubts the Batteriser will "work" as a boost converter and give you 1.5V output from a "dead" or "used" battery.

[quad]

Does anyone see a CE mark, or any other mandatory approval mark, anywhere on the product or its packaging?

Apparently, these are just samples, and shipments are expected to start on the new year.

If these are just a very limited batch of samples, they probably don't need the approval mark

[Kalvin]

I just contacted the Greek guy by phone, to ask him if he has any Batteriser for sale.

Apparently, these are just samples, and shipments are expected to start on the new year.

He also told me it does indeed work as advertised.

It would be just great to be able to measure how much more energy they can get more from a battery with a Batteriser: Take a fresh set of batteries and discharge the batteries with constant power until the battery voltage drops to specific cut-off voltage, for example 1V. Now, attach the Batteriser to the battery and measure how much more energy you can squeeze from the battery until the output voltage of the Batteriser drops below that same cut-off voltage. You may also want to repeat the test with a constant current for the comparison purposes.

[Fungus]

^This was the offer.  Top *and* bottom of the PCB.  If this product is in the wild, I have no idea why the underside of the PCB is such a secret. 

I'm sure there is no conspiracy going on here. I believe Wayne when he says the product "works" and boosts the voltage to 1.5V. There is no question they have made a product that does this.

There were definitely some working prototypes about 18 months ago. They're in all the batteriser videos, the Garmin GPS test, Probes the monkey, etc. Some PC magazines saw them in person.

The question is:
a) Has Bob shipped a handful of those old prototypes out to a few gullible people
or
b) Are there thousands of new ones being produced in China right now.

The fact that they say "Batterizer" on the sleeve makes it look like option (a) to me.

[EEVblog]

It would be just great to be able to measure how much more energy they can get more from a battery with a Batteriser: Take a fresh set of batteries and discharge the batteries with constant power until the battery voltage drops to specific cut-off voltage, for example 1V. Now, attach the Batteriser to the battery and measure how much more energy you can squeeze from the battery until the output voltage of the Batteriser drops below that same cut-off voltage. You may also want to repeat the test with a constant current for the comparison purposes.

Yep, this will be one of the standard test I'll be doing when I get my hands on some.
And a parametric graph as well based on various constant current and constant wattages (close enough to how the majority of electronics products will behave)
Sadly though it would take far too long to do this for light loads. But even Batteroo have (now, not initially) freely admitted that it's not going to perform well on low current drain devices.

But remember, Batteroo and Frankie's big claim about were it will perform best is in real products that have "spikes" in the current draw causing dropping out. They are making out this is common and is the basis of their big claims.
Of course all us product design engineers know this is bunk in the vast majority of cases (hence why they had to use a digital camera in their video to prove it), but the proof will be that spreadsheet I've compiled and everyone doing systematic testing on real products.

[Fungus]

Although I would encourage Wayne to actually test these things properly. With a conversion efficiency graph for different loads, and controlled product testing.

No need.

His "two identical flashlights" test is enough - so long as he's honest about the results.

[PeterL]

I'm a bit worried that so many people just seem to contact the backers that show pictures. I know everyone is dying to see the real results of the batterisers, but until there is an absolute proof otherwise the backers should be treated as people who have invested in the batteriser in good faith, and not as a part of Batteroo.
I am very curious after their honest opinion, and thank them for whatever they want to share.

I don't think that we as a community should stalk these people because:
a. It's not nice
b. It will surely scare off other's from posting anything
c. It's not nice

If the batteriser is coming, (and it surely looks that way), it will be just a matter of time until one or two will find it's way to the eevblog lab. Let's be patient until that time...

- just my humble opinion -