New Agilent scopes

[jasonh]

Thanks Leo,  btw I have bought a few of your boards in the past

   I have a broken and lost scope  also lost a function generator but if I go back to storage I should still have a frequency counter, a couple of fluke dmm's, dc power supplies, all the hand tools.  I currently use a goot soldering station but hopefully lurking around is also a weller soldering/vacuum desolder station.   Most of what is in storage has not seen the light of day for a decade but I know the scope is a gone and I have a keen interest.

    In all the other areas of tools I am covered  so the scope is really the 'big' one.   

    Scopes are not so easy to get over here, for example on the local 'ebay' type of site where pretty much everything second hand is sold there is one scope at 100MHz, nothing higher and it is near $700

   There is also another analog one 75MHz for $450.    Choice is small and prices are high compared some other countries.

   If I do get that one I will make sure the $$ are about so I am not left wanting  for anything else I need to get going.

Thanks Leo, and keep up the good work with your products!

Thanks,
Jason

[jasonh]

  I am trying to use my patience, and so far it is working.  No silly regrettable purchases yet

  Anyway, I think I will have the $$ for the agilent, I am thinking about the  100MHz version and I have a quick question.  The function generator that you can purchase a license for.   How good is it?  Let me put that another way.  If I was to buy a separate one,  how much would I be spending to acquire a new  one of similar functionality/quality?

  Leo,  I did get a pc based logic anazlyzer as well.  I like it a lot so far, it works a treat.   Only issue is that I want to add my own protocol analyzer and saleae only support the sdk on windows and I am running the mac version of the software.   I have a pc at the other end of the bench if I really have to..

[bandtank]

A "real" waveform generator will be better, but I put the word in quotes for a reason. The waveform generator in the X-Series scopes is actually very capable, but they watered it down. It is very obviously capable of being a 2 channel arb, at least if it wasn't turned off.

Something people seem to be missing is the amount of convenience of having it built in to the scope. Yeah, it's definitely too much money considering they stripped it of the arb, but to me it is still very much worth it all things considered. It's certainly not enough of a difference to want yet another instrument on the desk instead of spending a little more for the license. I wrote a frequency sweep program to automatically do 25 different acquisitions at various trigger points in my circuit and then it loops around and does it all again with a slightly higher frequency. Yes, this is possible with multiple instruments as I do it at work with up to 20 at a time, but being able to do it all in one is very convenient.

In the future hopefully they will let us use the arb functionality.

[ToBeFrank]

Only issue is that I want to add my own protocol analyzer and saleae only support the sdk on windows and I am running the mac version of the software.

Their SDK works fine on the mac. Their docs even show how to set up an xcode project.

[jasonh]

Thanks for that!  I went back to the downloads page and saw there was another link to an SDK page. I was just looking at the three downloads available at the bottom, one being the windows only SDK.

    OK, I will go have a look

[Leo Bodnar]

Usability is 100% dependant on what you are trying to do.  It is only up to 10MHz square wave and 20MHz sine.  It does not have the modulation.  It can only change frequency by +-1kHz in 1..10MHz band and +-10kHz above 10MHz via control knob (VISA/SCPI interface has sub-Hz resolution.) So if you are into SW radios it is only a basic functionality.  For audio equipment testing it is probably more than you need.  But still very convenient - zero footprint and no extra power plugs!

I have been looking for SCPI via USB enabled generator with modulation and up to 200MHz range and so far can't find anything reasonable below $1K. 
There is some rubbish with 8 bit DAC outputs.  It is as good as a random noise generator in receiver's land.

It is a pretty basic generator and if you buy the licence you can't sell it off separately when you want to upgrade your waveform generation.
You can always get two weeks trial licence and decide for yourself.  You can keep rolling clock back to keep it active.

How do you write application on a Mac?  I'd love to get rid of a PC in this respect.  I guess you can talk to any VISA/SCPI instrument, not only Agilent?

[jasonh]

Leo, thanks for the reply.   I didn't know they were that silly to let you keep rolling the clock back

  I know some have hacked the firmware but I am not knowledgable to figure it out, even though I could follow the instructions no problem but there isn't the same 'rigol' thread going on with this machine.

   The mac software related to the saleae logic analyser.   I am going to be working with a simple protocol over rs485 where the packets have a basic <preamble> <dst> <src> <flags> <len> <data> ... <data> <cksum>

   The saleae SDK should let me capture this and show the data.   It's a cheap unit but should work well for these slower chips up to 20 odd MHz.

   It might be nice to have that on the agilent but I guess I could not have this protocol usable to me.

[bartek]

Super keen to get one of these, is it worth waiting for other brands to respond?

[EEVblog]

  Anyway, I think I will have the $$ for the agilent, I am thinking about the  100MHz version

Is the 100MHz one worth is over the 70MHz version I wonder?
That's not a big difference, and you might be able to use the change to buy something else perhaps?
You can always buy the extra BW later if you need it.

Dave.

[dimlow]

Super keen to get one of these, is it worth waiting for other brands to respond?

The new Rigol DS6000 series looks interesting. http://www.rigol.com/prodserv/DS6000/

[trevyn]

My DSOX3014A just shipped, excited!

As I understand from this thread, the 100MHz and 200MHz versions are the same hardware, and 200MHz is a license key option.

It was my understanding that if you have the GSa/sec to back it up, the bandwidth rating of the scope is due to the capabilities of the analog front end.

So what on Earth could the 200MHz license key be unlocking?

[Leo Bodnar]

So what on Earth could the 200MHz license key be unlocking?

I guess an extra capacitor in front-end LP filter.

[mikeselectricstuff]

So what on Earth could the 200MHz license key be unlocking?

I guess an extra capacitor in front-end LP filter.

...and maybe an extra few steps on the timebase setting?

[EEVblog]

Super keen to get one of these, is it worth waiting for other brands to respond?

I wouldn't be waiting for Tektronix.
I've heard that they were caught completely off guard by this release and don't have anything in the pipeline to compete, hence the recent panic 40% price drops were they still find it very difficult to compete.
Don't know about the others.
If you are talking something to equal the performance of the Agilent in terms of update rate, the only others one's who would have a chance in hell of doing that are Lecroy. But IIRC they aren't far into the release cycle of their latest scopes, so probably not much chance there any time soon.
I'd get the Agilent now if you are keen on it.
My only hesitation would be that unused Serial decode key on the 2000 series. They may decide to release a 2000 model with that functionality built in and maybe not offer it to previous customers as a firmware upgrade? I don't really know.

At any time if the opposition release a better scope, Agilent are in a position to simply enable extra features for zero extra production and delay cost.

The Agilent release will probably mean the others might start to include wavegen options as well in the future? But Agilent got that for free inside their ASIC, so the overhead production cost was minimal. If others haven't thought that far ahead, then they'll have to pay more to include it.

Dave.

[trevyn]

Looking for the old firmware update file...anyone have it laying around still? Thanks!

[tinhead]

Looking for the old firmware update file...anyone have it laying around still? Thanks!

here

http://hotfile.com/dl/119064856/edf72e6/3000XSeries.01.10.2011031600.cab.html
EDIT: link updated

https://hotfile.com/dl/131446259/df706bb/3000XSeries.01.10.2011031600.cab.html

[trevyn]

So what on Earth could the 200MHz license key be unlocking?

I guess an extra capacitor in front-end LP filter.

...and maybe an extra few steps on the timebase setting?

Ah yes, it looks like the 100MHz goes down to 5ns/div, and the 200MHz is down to 2ns/div, not like this is a big deal considering that 5ns/div is more than sufficient to show the entire 4GSa/sec. Would be really funny if that's all the upgrade unlocked.

I am thoroughly enjoying this scope, the memory depth is even better than the waveforms/sec, though I guess that's not as Agilent-exclusive.

[hacklordsniper]

Mine arrived just yesterday verry late in evening, only had the time to update it. Almost 3 months waiting for it.

Cant wait to play today after work... Did not visit this forum verry long time, did somebody hack the licensing system?

[shadowless]

If you don't have the wave generator option,  does the bnc connector for the scope produce higher frequency square wave for high frequency compensation for the scope?

[hacklordsniper]

If you don't have the wave generator option,  does the bnc connector for the scope produce higher frequency square wave for high frequency compensation for the scope?

I bought the wavegen option, but probably i will never use it anyway in fear of bricking the scope with my HV stuff. Anyway i have 4 or 5 standalone FG-s that i will rather use

[deephaven]

There's no output on the Gen Out BNC if you don't have the Wavegen option.

[shadowless]

I think high frequency signal should be included in the base model, it is just a simple thing that is necessary for probe calibration.  For people who don't need the wave generator option they will have to use other square wave generator to calibrate the probes, really dumb.

[Bored@Work]

This "but I need the wavegen option to adjust the probe" is just nonsense.

The high frequency of probe adjusting signals is "in the edges" of the signals. Ask Monsieur Fourier. If the rise (and fall)  times are small enough then there is no need for a high frequency (as in high repetitive rate) probe adjust signal. And since aged oscilloscope vendors have no problem delivering an adjustment signal that has sufficient short rise times for probe adjustments. I bet Agilent's probe adjustment signal output is absolutely sufficient.

[Rufus]

I bet Agilent's probe adjustment signal output is absolutely sufficient.

The probe check/calibration output on the X 3000 ramps between levels in about 1.2us. Probably to avoid edge ringing confusing the automatic probe check feature. Fine for the main low frequency compensation adjustment, useless for high frequency compensation trimming. The internal signal generator rise time is about 20ns still slow.

I couldn't find useful instruction on how to tweak the two high frequency compensation pots in the stock probes. Best I came up with was feeding a square wave through a fast 50 ohm buffer directly into one 50 ohm terminated channel while probing the same signal on another and trimming the probe for the best match.

[alm]

In most probes you shouldn't adjust HF compensation unless your replaced the probe cable or components in the compensation circuit. Not sure about the Agilent probes, what does their manual say?