[defaced thread] Affordable DMM Checkers: AC Reference...

[schmitt trigger]

High precision voltage reference, but you need to calibrate it first using the potentiometers on the prototype board. 

For 56 bucks delivered on my doorstep, I can make it myself and maybe even make something better.

You can't blame the guy for trying though. Unfortunately for him he came here to meet his doom. 

Exactly! His entrepreneurial spirit is applauded, his attitude is shunned.

If he had come here asking humbly “guys, I am a beginner who would like to build and sell these devices on Ebay, what do you think? How can I improve these while keeping a low cost?” He would likely have received plenty of useful advice. But his stubbornness to defend the indefensible, that is why he aggravated everyone.

[wraper]

Frankly there is nothing wrong with potentiometers IF they are high quality and adjust within a tiny range

[schmitt trigger]

Similar low cost devices are already being sold on the web. They appear to be better engineered and built.
They have been around for over 6 years, thus the guy must be doing something right.

https://voltagestandard.com/

[shabaz]

The entire title of this thread seems inappropriate too.. FWIW just a personal opinion, but maybe it's worth for the user-id to be removed from the title, since it calls attention to messengers rather than the message, which was vindictive (by the banned poster) anyway.. and isn't anything to do with engineering either. Also the crude language in the title isn't pleasant to see for anyone.

[T3sl4co1l]

I mean, it isn't wrong.

I might not edit it myself, but it does seem past time to close this thread.

[floobydust]

It's a Buy/Sell/Wanted forum- not the place to shit on the item!
After some thought, I think OP handled it well including naming the turd slinger.

It takes just one person to ruin a thread, a venture etc. It's a tough crowd here.

[tatel]

It's a Buy/Sell/Wanted forum- not the place to shit on the item!
After some thought, I think OP handled it well including naming the turd slinger.

It takes just one person to ruin a thread, a venture etc. It's a tough crowd here.

Not going to get into any arguments, but I don't think the "turd slinger" is to blame, really.

IIRC other people selling items as a business have been banned recently, just for that, even if he didn't behave like this hemorrhoid guy at all. It seems, this forum is for the people to sell old stuff they don't want anymore, not for businesses to have an outlet.

Maybe I agree with that, maybe not, but it doesn't matter in this case. It really looked like this guy was using not just the Buy/Sell/Wanted section, but also others, to make his "products" known... going from a thread to the next, looking for a place where he could do his thing "à plaisir". I think he deserved to be banned just for that... but if there where any doubts, his utterly rude, arrogant, spoiled child behavior marks him as an insane guy.

He deleted the listings he himself linked a week ago... then after some days he edits thread subject, deletes his posts, and states that he will open a new thread where -it seems- he couldn't be criticized? To me it means he has been in rage these days... again, spoiled child-like. Not an adult behavior. This guy is nuts. Time to increase the medication.

Exactly! His entrepreneurial spirit is applauded, his attitude is shunned.

If he had come here asking humbly “guys, I am a beginner who would like to build and sell these devices on Ebay, what do you think? How can I improve these while keeping a low cost?” He would likely have received plenty of useful advice. But his stubbornness to defend the indefensible, that is why he aggravated everyone.

+1. That would have been the sensible approach IMO

[AVGresponding]

It's not "turd-slinging" to make legitimate points about obviously unrealisable claims.

[tggzzz]

I wonder whether ebay seller sqwarrel will continue to sell the devices https://www.ebay.com/usr/sqwarrel

The listings he linked in this thread have been ended on Tue, April 23, but not those in the link you just provided. Well, I don't really care. A pity, but this guy obviously needs professional help. Not speaking about EE.

We were all beginners once, and made many mistakes. Being sufficiently self-aware and humble to accept hints and tips from more experienced people is the essential pre-requisite to avoiding making old stupid mistakes.

I gave his fleabay moniker since the items are still visible there.

[tggzzz]

...
His entrepreneurial spirit is applauded, his attitude is shunned.

If he had come here asking humbly “guys, I am a beginner who would like to build and sell these devices on Ebay, what do you think? How can I improve these while keeping a low cost?” He would likely have received plenty of useful advice. But his stubbornness to defend the indefensible, that is why he aggravated everyone.

Precisely.

[floobydust]

The crime is the unrealistic claims? We have an entire nation built on that, we love and support. 5-star reviews galore lol. "Nijikang Ruby electrolytic capacitor" oh sure 0.1% 25ppm. It must be the ocean that protects them from flying objects, compared to here.

I went to a local craft show and booths were selling all kinds of things - jams, hot sauce, pillows, candles etc.
Did I go yell at the booth telling them their candle/pillow won't cure insomnia or stress, whatever the "unrealistic" claim was?
You walk by, you do not buy.
I guess I have more respect for makers putting themselves out there. I think OP has a strong character, not unlike many here and I missed the "poke the bear" activity.

[pcprogrammer]

Frankly there is nothing wrong with potentiometers IF they are high quality and adjust within a tiny range

True, but when I see something build on a prototype board precision does not spring to mind. And when claimed to be a precise 10.0000V reference, I expect something more professional of which one can assume it to be calibrated against a formal standard. Sure you won't get something like that for 40 bucks or so, but then you also should not make such claims. It smells like false advertising.

[tatel]

The crime is the unrealistic claims?

Absolutely not. The crime is a) to use the forum to promote his sales, and b) to complain aggressively it all was a conspiracy against him and "counterattack", blind like a bull, perfectly confident nothing can oppose him. Really in a very rude, disgusting way.  Of course it had to be a conspiracy against him, because all the world knows his boards are the best thing after hot bread, and we all are just jealous. 

[thm_w]

The crime is the unrealistic claims? We have an entire nation built on that, we love and support. 5-star reviews galore lol. "Nijikang Ruby electrolytic capacitor" oh sure 0.1% 25ppm. It must be the ocean that protects them from flying objects, compared to here.

Not sure what relevance that has as those products are not being sold on this forum.

[shapirus]

I think posting a link to an ebay listing for a good inexpensive reference would be very welcome and beneficial for the community and nobody would oppose that, even if it had sales promotion as a result (and/or intent, who cares!), provided that the specs were decent, true to the claims, and the manufacturer was ready to listen and cooperate. There are good examples of such cases: recent ones that come to mind are the ST42 LCR tweezers and that interesting ET sampling scope, forgot the name, that Joe Smith was (is?) an early tester of.

The real issue was the attitude. Good advices were ignored, good questions were dismissed, valid criticism was confronted with aggression. That sucks. You don't behave like that on a respectable forum, especially one where nobody owes you anything.

[tggzzz]

I think posting a link to an ebay listing for a good inexpensive reference would be very welcome and beneficial for the community and nobody would oppose that, even if it had sales promotion as a result (and/or intent, who cares!), provided that the specs were decent, true to the claims, and the manufacturer was ready to listen and cooperate. There are good examples of such cases: recent ones that come to mind are the ST42 LCR tweezers and that interesting ET sampling scope, forgot the name, that Joe Smith was (is?) an early tester of.

The real issue was the attitude. Good advices were ignored, good questions were dismissed, valid criticism was confronted with aggression. That sucks. You don't behave like that on a respectable forum, especially one where nobody owes you anything.

Agreed

[Stray Electron]

I think posting a link to an ebay listing for a good inexpensive reference would be very welcome and beneficial for the community and nobody would oppose that, even if it had sales promotion as a result (and/or intent, who cares!), provided that the specs were decent, true to the claims, and the manufacturer was ready to listen and cooperate. There are good examples of such cases: recent ones that come to mind are the ST42 LCR tweezers and that interesting ET sampling scope, forgot the name, that Joe Smith was (is?) an early tester of.

The real issue was the attitude. Good advices were ignored, good questions were dismissed, valid criticism was confronted with aggression. That sucks. You don't behave like that on a respectable forum, especially one where nobody owes you anything.

Agreed

   I also agree and the OP should have kept in mind that he's pissing off the very same people that would have been interested in his device. 

[jonpaul]

Agree with TGGZZZ, MajorA is a waste of time

j

[PlainName]

he's pissing off the very same people that would have been interested in his device

I really don't think so. The sort of people on here know how to make these simple things if they need one, but if they're that way inclined they will buy a cheaper and better looking one from AliBayzon. I mean, he showed that it's just some cheap parts on a perf board - anyone could do it.

What the people on here would be interested in is showing how superior they are by finding the tiniest fault, and loudly noting that you couldn't set a 20-digit meter from one so it must be shit. It's that community attitude that led to his attitude.

He seemed impervious to taking advice, but that's not an indictable offence. Often, one will get contradictory advice so if you follow one you'll be pissing off the supplier of the other, but why should he take any at all? In the end he has considered it all and decided that the way he will go is the way to go, and that should perfectly OK. It would be OK, except to those that think their advice is gold plated and simply must be followed.

In that thread it might be kind of OK to try and make him look a fool by asking about stuff that only applies to high-end super-expensive traceability (although using that as as a weapon surely sucks), but here in buy & sell it's just designed to stiff his sale. If you're actually interested in buying his kit then that sort of question is sensible, but the only ones asking here were those with a grudge intent on screwing any potential sale. I don't think that's on - if someone is happy to buy shit, it should be between them and the vendor.

[tszaboo]

Maybe he can put the assembly in snake oil, to stabilize the temperature and get rid of humidity influences.

[tggzzz]

he's pissing off the very same people that would have been interested in his device

I really don't think so. The sort of people on here know how to make these simple things if they need one, but if they're that way inclined they will buy a cheaper and better looking one from AliBayzon. I mean, he showed that it's just some cheap parts on a perf board - anyone could do it.

What the people on here would be interested in is showing how superior they are by finding the tiniest fault, and loudly noting that you couldn't set a 20-digit meter from one so it must be shit. It's that community attitude that led to his attitude.

He seemed impervious to taking advice, but that's not an indictable offence. Often, one will get contradictory advice so if you follow one you'll be pissing off the supplier of the other, but why should he take any at all? In the end he has considered it all and decided that the way he will go is the way to go, and that should perfectly OK. It would be OK, except to those that think their advice is gold plated and simply must be followed.

In that thread it might be kind of OK to try and make him look a fool by asking about stuff that only applies to high-end super-expensive traceability (although using that as as a weapon surely sucks), but here in buy & sell it's just designed to stiff his sale. If you're actually interested in buying his kit then that sort of question is sensible, but the only ones asking here were those with a grudge intent on screwing any potential sale. I don't think that's on - if someone is happy to buy shit, it should be between them and the vendor.

There are some valid points there. However, ...

You appear to be overlooking that the OP was continuing to make claims for his products that were misleading and which he couldn't justify. When asked to explain and justify his claims, his chose not to - in ways that have been described by other people in previous messages.

Beginners are unlikely to be able to spot the deficiencies in such claims, and hence are likely to be mislead.

I dislike people being mislead, even though it has become more accepted in recent years.

[shapirus]

Maybe he can put the assembly in snake oil, to stabilize the temperature and get rid of humidity influences.

That would require a low-noise chakra signal generator to calibrate it, and that project is still unfinished :(

[tatel]

I really don't think so. The sort of people on here know how to make these simple things if they need one, but if they're that way inclined they will buy a cheaper and better looking one from AliBayzon. I mean, he showed that it's just some cheap parts on a perf board - anyone could do it.

What the people on here would be interested in is showing how superior they are by finding the tiniest fault, and loudly noting that you couldn't set a 20-digit meter from one so it must be shit. It's that community attitude that led to his attitude.

He seemed impervious to taking advice, but that's not an indictable offence. Often, one will get contradictory advice so if you follow one you'll be pissing off the supplier of the other, but why should he take any at all? In the end he has considered it all and decided that the way he will go is the way to go, and that should perfectly OK. It would be OK, except to those that think their advice is gold plated and simply must be followed.

In that thread it might be kind of OK to try and make him look a fool by asking about stuff that only applies to high-end super-expensive traceability (although using that as as a weapon surely sucks), but here in buy & sell it's just designed to stiff his sale. If you're actually interested in buying his kit then that sort of question is sensible, but the only ones asking here were those with a grudge intent on screwing any potential sale. I don't think that's on - if someone is happy to buy shit, it should be between them and the vendor.

Well, in fact this thread had been inactive for some days... so nobody compelled him to take any advice, and everyone put up with his bad manners ...and he was free to continue selling his things on eBay.

It should be realized that it was him who suddenly "closed" the thread, deleting his posts and stating he would open another thread -where it would have been free from any critics?

Hell, no. These eBay listings were misleading and we all have a right to criticize that. If he wanted propaganda without criticism, it would have been better for him to pay for some ads somewhere.

I think, should that listing read something like:

"LT1236-10 5ppm 10V Reference."
"Final Trim to 10.0000 VDC @ 78F, 50% Humidity"
"Designed to affordably verify the function of Digital Multimeters up to 4.5 digits".

... there would have been much less critics

But at the end of the day, by making it clear that he does not accept criticism or else (temper tantrum), he was the one who made the ban inevitable

[Muttley Snickers]

I have mixed feelings about these types of episodes as nobody really benefits.   

As I see it, the OP had these references listed on ebay so if they didn't live up to expectations or meet specifications then purchasers had an avenue for reimbursement and negative feedback.

Regardless of other peoples views or opinions on the products, the OP was in fact a contributor to the forum which entitles them to post items in this B/S/W section, and if the items weren't fit for purpose then they wouldn't last here very long, that's for damn sure.

I don't know the reason for the ban and perhaps a timeout may have been sufficient but unfortunately the OP nominated to instigate what could be deemed a personal attack against another member by the (offensive?) thread title and that according to the rules won't be tolerated.

[wraper]

As I see it, the OP had these references listed on ebay so if they didn't live up to expectations or meet specifications then purchasers had an avenue for reimbursement and negative feedback.

Anyone who knows what their doing won't buy this to begin with. Those who don't, don't know better and don't have a clue or capability to verify performance.