Rishabh - Rugged Digital Autoranging Multimeters [ From India ]

[Amarbir[Lynx-India]]

@ All,
       Some of the very senior members of our forum long time back had a feeling that the images of the Rish Multi 20 were doctored  .Please read this thread -> https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/rishabh-multimeters-from-india-(-open-house-discussion-)/ .Please find below the pictures of real Rishabh " Rish Multi 20 " .

Note :  Robnez sir ,Free Electron sir " If you need some more pictures of the "Rish Multi 20 " series let me know  .I can even click those dual display type LCD images if you like to .Would like to tell everyone that i have collected everything now for me to start the teardown/review

[mamalala]

Chris ,
       They are saying this

[..snip..]

One must wonder what your reeason is for stating "they are saying this" and then quote yourself instead of what they actually wrote in their reply to Dave. Admitted, english is not my first language, so maybe a native speaker will correct me here. So, _this_ is what they actually said:

Rishabh in India is definitely not affiliated with GMC-I Messtechnik GmbH or any other of the companies belonging to the Gossen Metrawatt Group (Metrawatt International GmbH).
Enclosed please find for your information a letter of cease and desist sent to Rishab from our lawyers.
Many years ago, Rishab bought from Gossen Metrawatt for manufacturing of series 10 multimeters a license, which is valid for India only. Series 10 multimeters are phased out from Gossen Metrawatt several years ago. Before that they were undertaken a redesign, because the processor was end-of life. Rishab has done this redesign themselves, thus their series 10 multimeters are not the same as those they bought the license for.
Besides the example enclosed we are repeatedly claiming against Rishab not to declare the usage of German technology

.

Unless i have some problems understanding those rather simple sentences, they are saying the following:

- Rishabh has nothing to do with Gossen
- Rishabh got cease and desist letters for claiming what they claim
- Rishabh got a license to manufature the series 10 multimeters many years ago
- Rishabh got that license for India _only_
- Rishabh redesigned the series 10 before Gossen phased them out
- Due to the redesign, their series 10 meters are not what they got a license for
- Gossen continues telling them to stop bullshiting around about German technology

So, they _only_ have a license for the old series 10, and _only_ in India. However, the series 10 they sell is _not_ what they got the license for. For everything else that resembles Gossen meters: they don't have any license for that at all, so it's bordering (at least) on counterfeiting Gossen products.

Now, initially you claimed their meters were the result of licensing from / cooperation with Gossen, and that they use German technology. This is obviously wrong, as showed above by what Gossen has to say about it. This leaves exactly two possibilities:

Rishabh is still lying to people that their meters are the result of a cooperation/licensing with Gossen, despite the cease and desist letters they got and still get from Gossen. Consequently, they told you the same, and you in turn perpetrated that lie without checking.

-OR-

You made that part up on your own.

Neither of these two possibilities put you in a good light here. The first one means that you can be fooled far too easily and thus lack the capacity to do simple checks on your own, the second one means that you have no problems with lying to people just to increase your sales.

You choose...

Greetings,

Chris

Edit: Forgot to mention: It's questionable if they even have a valid license to the series 10 meters anymore. By the looks of it they messed up the deal, and thus Gossen could be in a aposition to revoke that license.

[con-f-use]

At this point there is nothing further to say. I'd advise to let this thread die. 

[Attorney]

Am I the only one here who detests auto-ranging DMMs?   Compared with many slow-ranging DMMs, I find troubleshooting goes faster when I select my own range.  Of course, that requires some knowledge about the expected range of values to select but comes with time and experience.  Even the manual override button on many auto-ranging DMMs seems too cumbersome.  Give me an old Fluke 8060A over any auto-ranging DMM.

Paul

[Amarbir[Lynx-India]]

Am I the only one here who detests auto-ranging DMMs?   Compared with many slow-ranging DMMs, I find troubleshooting goes faster when I select my own range.  Of course, that requires some knowledge about the expected range of values to select but comes with time and experience.  Even the manual override button on many auto-ranging DMMs seems too cumbersome.  Give me an old Fluke 8060A over any auto-ranging DMM.

Paul

Paul
       Many people prefer manual ranging multimeters .I am myself a hardcore fan of Analog multimeters that are manual ranging but in digital once i like autoranging cos i myself use a protek 608 and its a fast multimeter .In these rishabs i find the resistance autoranging much slower then my protek but i am yet to experiment with the manual ranges if selected .The rishabhs can go from auto to manual ranges also

[Stonent]

He may have a perfectly good multimeter, but given his deception, I'll never buy it.

[Amarbir[Lynx-India]]

He may have a perfectly good multimeter, but given his deception, I'll never buy it.

Well
     I have said all what we are told .I am not the manufacturer of these just a seller.Initially few months back it was said that images are doctured . I added real life photos now in the thread .no offence but people who said they are doctored did not comment why so ?.

[alm]

Am I the only one here who detests auto-ranging DMMs?   Compared with many slow-ranging DMMs, I find troubleshooting goes faster when I select my own range.

Have you used any high-end meters with fast auto-ranging like the successor to the old Fluke 8060A (Fluke 87)? Or is this comment based on some crappy low-end DMMs? Didn't the 8060A have an undocumented auto-ranging mode for DCV only, or am I confusing it with another high-end Fluke handheld from that era?

Initially few months back it was said that images are doctured . I added real life photos now in the thread .no offence but people who said they are doctored did not comment why so ?.

Your picture proves their point. The digits from the datasheet picture do not match your picture (compare the zeros), so the picture in the datasheet is clearly fake/manipulated. If they can't even get this picture right, then that does not instill confidence in the accuracy of their datasheet.

[Lightages]

I would give Amarbir a break here. His first language is not English and his culture is not the same as much of the world. With this in mind it is easy to see how problems with communication can happen. Of course this doesn't mean that anyone should buy these unknown meters but give the guy a bit of a break.

I am intrigued with these meters but I don't feel like gambling any money on them myself.

[BravoV]

Amarbir, do you still planning to post those close-up shots as you promised ?

[Wytnucls]

I don't quite get the chronology of events here.
Facts:
Gossen sold the rights to Rishabh to manufacture the series 10 meters for the Indian market only.
The main processor became unavailable after the agreement between the companies.

Questions:
When did the agreement come into effect? How long was it valid for?
When did the processor reach end-of-life manufacture?
When did Gossen stop the sale of series 10 DMMs?
When did Rishabh start to modify original PCB layouts?
Did Gossen and Rishabh know the main IC had a time-limited availability at the time of the deal?

It seems to me that there may have been a dispute when Gossen modified their series 10 DMMs to accommodate the new IC and Rishabh decided for a cheaper solution and installed their own IC instead, in effect creating a different multimeter, contrary to the original agreement.

[Lightages]

Amarbir:

I have an idea and has been said before, send a meter to Dave, or me, or Martin Lorton for a review. Or get  Rishabh to send one. Without an impartial review you have almost zero chance of anyone buying one of these here. The price is not so low that people will take chance.

[BravoV]

I think he emphasized this repeatedly that he is not interested on selling these DMM out side of India, hence, no review unit for external (international) parties. At least this is my impression, correct me if I'm wrong.

Btw, does this forum have many members from India ?

[Wytnucls]

I thought you were from India, Bravo...

[BravoV]

Or get  Rishabh to send one.

With Gossen's statement, I don't think Rishabh has the ball to do this "officially" by sending their DMM directly to external parties across India's border, especially this means it will generate a potential commercial transactions across countries.

[BravoV]

I thought you were from India, Bravo...

Geen my vriend, jy raai dit verkeerd. Eintlik is sy baie ver van dit. 

[Wytnucls]

I don't think anybody would be interested in an overpriced Rishabh-designed PCB, even if it sits in a Gossen Metrahit enclosure.
The meters of interest, to me at least, would be the old ones, made according to the original Gossen blueprint.

[pickle9000]

This is a very interesting thread. I wonder how much information about the original design was shared? Did they train staff for the company from India? Did the engineers from India get training or access to Gossen EE's? For any company to get access to that kind of info could really get your foot in the door.  As for redesign, changing a processor and rewriting the software that's nothing. It's what's around the the thing in this case that makes the difference. Gossen says it's different meter because of a processor change? Maybe that's a good way to handle it.

I am not on either side (so far) but it's a really good story.

[Amarbir[Lynx-India]]

Your picture proves their point. The digits from the datasheet picture do not match your picture (compare the zeros), so the picture in the datasheet is clearly fake/manipulated. If they can't even get this picture right, then that does not instill confidence in the accuracy of their datasheet.

Alm Sir ,
     Regards i did not get the point sir ? . The image says 0.00048 and my image says 0.00001 .After the decimal there are 5 digits to the right in both images  .Are you talking about the digitals elsewhere ? .I could not get it 

[poorchava]

I think getting one of those maters could cause some problems in EU, is Gossen filed appropriate papers. Rishabh has only India-wide licence for series 10. Series 10, whether redesigned or not is still series 10 as long as it's marketed as such or resembles it closely enough.

There might be also some patent infringement involved. By getting licence for one product line and one country, Rishabh got right to use Gossen's pattented technologies in that one product line in that one country. Using the same patented technologies in other product lines and other countries still may constitute patent infringement in some countries.

So even if the new meters are not Gossen's design (which may very well be true), they still might contain some techniques that Rishabh engineers learned from Gossen's products and which are still patented.

If I were Rishabh and wanted to enter worldwide market, I'd first check my designs against patents owned by larger companies (Fluke, Agilent, etc) that are pertinent to each design and check whether that product is infringing any patent or not.

[Amarbir[Lynx-India]]

Amarbir:

I have an idea and has been said before, send a meter to Dave, or me, or Martin Lorton for a review. Or get  Rishabh to send one. Without an impartial review you have almost zero chance of anyone buying one of these here. The price is not so low that people will take chance.

No offense ,
     Were have you been lightages " they have been whipping me left and right "    .Once you see my review and incase you still feel i will give that a shot .Remember i am a seller not distributor .This stuff sells well in india hence no tension of international sales much as stated before  .

[Amarbir[Lynx-India]]

Amarbir, the only way you can recover from this is with an independent review. Since you are unwilling to send a meter to someone independent and Gossen have stated that your claim to their technology is dubious we can only conclude that you are untrustworthy and your dodgy multimeters not worth buying. I know there are cultural differences, I'm half Pakistani, but your behaviour is extremely suspicious. I expect you will reply with more denials, but hard independent evidence is all that can help you now.

Mojo-chan ,
       Why are you so bothered about this ? . I know you have said more then 5 times you do not trust me and all of that .I am not a kid and i do not get provoked by stuff like this .If you are talking about trust here you go ->  http://feedback.ebay.in/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback2&userid=lynx-india&ftab=AllFeedback .I would like to tell you that the ebay order count is 980++ .This means out of 980 orders executed 651 have left a feedback [ positive ] and the rest have not left any feedback and i assume its positive too .I openly challenge you to come to india start a ebay store and show me ZERO " Neutral/Negative " feedbacks in 1 Years time frame .Have you seen the user comments so please stop this nonesense and let me write a non partial review .Why bother with you boring lecture again and again "Sorry but you are getting on my nerves " .You can also check my youtube channel here -> https://www.youtube.com/user/lynxgroupblog/videos .

[Wytnucls]

International sales don't make sense, so there is no incentive to spend money to send a meter for evaluation.
Amarbir, like all of us, was unaware of the dispute going on between Gossen and Rishabh. So, cut him some slack.
It seems that Gossen hasn't bothered taking the dispute to court in India yet.

Gossen doesn't look good here either, with their bait and switch contract with Rishabh, if they knew the processor would become unavailable shortly after signature.

[Amarbir[Lynx-India]]

International sales don't make sense, so there is no incentive to spend money to send a meter for evaluation.
Amarbir, like all of us, was unaware of the dispute going on between Gossen and Rishabh. So, cut him some slack.
It seems that Gossen hasn't bothered taking the dispute to court in India yet.

Gossen doesn't look good here either, with their bait and switch contract with Rishabh, if they knew the processor would become unavailable shortly after signature.

Boss ,
      I have a brochure that says "German Technology " .I will scan and post it here ,people are rasing fingers on me for no reason .I am very very sure after the teardown/review we can judge better " Whats What " .Plus dave and everyone else would be interested too .Atleast we come to know " Whats What " .

[Lightages]

Now I wonder what is the point of this thread with prices, shipping references to places outside of India, etc? If you do not have any intention to sell outside of India then you are spending a whole bunch of time pretending to want to. Do you want to sell outside of India or not? If not, then stop pushing prices and advertising products to an international audience.