[BBC]: "Has pop music lost its fun?"

[eti]

I know it's one of those "well, DUH" articles, but I have been told I am "biased" or "old and grumpy", and yet, throughout all that cliched nonsense, dimissing my claim, I had this underlying "feeling" of knowing I was right, but not ALL of why... but it seems others know:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/music/articles/fb84bf19-29c9-4ed3-b6b6-953e8a083334

In a (SUPPOSEDLY!) "advanced" age, where we like to congratulate ourselves on how very pleased we are with having "solved" problems that were already solved thousands of years ago, and more intelligently, this is of no surprise whatsoever. In an age where teenagers think an Arduino is needed to flash an LED, and where YouTube "fame" merely for its own sake, is a worthwhile "career", well, call me cynical - I am - this is VERY true, and music IS UTTER SHITE now.

[Ed.Kloonk]

[Ed.Kloonk]

From 1981 to 2018, I can't tell the difference.

[MrMobodies]

15:36 Would you want to gamble with three million dollars?
15:39 No?
15:40 Neither do music producers.
15:41 So the industry has reacted by removing the risk.
15:46 Instead of trying to find genuine musical talent they simply take a pretty young face,
15:52 usually from a TV talent show and then simply force the public to like them, by brainwashing them.
15:59 Instead of allowing the public to grow to like an artist and make their own mind up
16:02 about the quality of their music, the industry now simply makes you like the music, thus

It's not TV talent shows alone. I remembered some years hearing the same song 4 times an hour on radio after the adverts and that use to annoy me terribly but then others who wanted the radio on liked it and loud as well. I am not sure if they were forced to like it or whether it appealed to them but playing the same stuff repeatedly every hour and I don't find that fun at all.

There was one time when they played some old pop stuff on one of the BBC Radio channels 2? which sounded okay then they switched to something else where the singers sounded high on something and was screaming down the microphone. I couldn't understand what they were saying.  The sound of it ruined my day and I got put off.

[james_s]

What does this have to do with engineering? Or is this just where the old guys go to yell at kids to get off their lawn?

A lot of music sucks, a lot of music has always sucked. We remember the hits and forget about most of the crap which can make it seem like it used to be better in some other era. Also there are only so many ways to combine notes and a finite selection of instruments.

Bottom line is who cares? Listen to the stuff you enjoy and don't worry about what other people are listening to or what they enjoy. You've got around 100 years of recorded music to choose from, none of it is going anywhere so it matters not a bit what anyone is recording today.

[Ed.Kloonk]

You've got around 100 years of recorded music to choose from, none of it is going anywhere so it matters not a bit what anyone is recording today.

Much of it well engineered. It could be argued that these days it's more engineered than ever before.

[Halcyon]

You've got around 100 years of recorded music to choose from, none of it is going anywhere so it matters not a bit what anyone is recording today.

Much of it well engineered. It could be argued that these days it's more engineered than ever before.

Bullshit! Justin Bieber is totally original and completely unmanufactured! He even has proper vocal talent! No computers required.

[nctnico]

A lot of music sucks, a lot of music has always sucked. We remember the hits and forget about most of the crap which can make it seem like it used to be better in some other era. Also there are only so many ways to combine notes and a finite selection of instruments.

The interesting thing is that the music played on the radio & TV hasn't changed much since 1990. It is the same. I often laugh a little bit when I hear a new song on the radio which is then followed by a song from 25 years ago which has exactly the same style. Wash, rinse and repeat. It seems pop music has found an optimum where most people like it. Even songs from the 80's. For example: I have introduced 'take on me' from Aha to my youngest teenage son. Now his entire group of friends likes it.

[Zero999]

Justin Bieber certainly isn't the worst vocalist around these days. What annoys me a lot about modern music is the half-arsed, whiny vocals, without a decent instrumental track to compensate. I accept that lots of music I listen to doesn't have great vocals, but the tune and beat somehow seem to make up for it. Now lots of it just whiny crap.

[bd139]

Mainstream pop stuff has always been shite. As has classical going back 300 years or so. You have to look between the lines. There are some gems out there. Hunting them is a hobby of mine. It is subjective so I’m not going to post any examples.

As always marketed consensus is the issue.

Edit: also go and see stuff live. Smaller things. Not headline gigs and pop stars.

[GlennSprigg]

You've got around 100 years of recorded music to choose from, none of it is going anywhere so it matters not a bit what anyone is recording today.

Much of it well engineered. It could be argued that these days it's more engineered than ever before.

Bullshit! Justin Bieber is totally original and completely unmanufactured! He even has proper vocal talent! No computers required.

Halcyon... Whaa???  Obviously I do not know your 'age', but in my mind I was putting you on a
pedestal as a wise 'older' gentleman, with the knowledge of many decades !!!    
So many J.B.'s are just 'Fly-by-nighters'. And occasionally 'young' people hear some tunes/songs
that they think is really cool! but has been around for MANY years!  My missus Susie & I ARE old, 
and are stuck in our timezone most of the time, re:Music...  (1950's to 1990's).

The main problem we have, is hearing 'modern' RAP crap!! I'm sorry, but that's not 'Music'. Why do
some 'lyrics' about drugs, mother-fu@#$%s, guns, & the Bronx in N.Y. have to do with life here??
Real songs are about true love, happiness & joy, a bit of fun, and the occasional blues/country.
Our music nights are happy, with sing-alongs & instruments, but that's just us... 

[Ed.Kloonk]

 

I thought that Taylor Swift was just like Beliber until someone sent me this:
Reminded me of Neil Young at the Beeb(er)

[Ed.Kloonk]

[OwO]

Look up "keygen music" for some examples of nice music that few people know about.

[German_EE]

Answer, yes, because the entire music industry has changed out of all recognition.

When most of us grew up music was still supplied on 45 RPM singles and it was still possible to compile a weekly chart of the best selling records. Competition, especially for the lucrative Christmas number one, was fierce and because of that the music producers had to make a quality product. Now I don't think that they even bother producing a singles chart as everything is downloaded.

One other thing that has changed (and I'm showing my age here). Record producers had an easy test to see if a tune would be a hit or not, play it to a random person on the street and see if they could whistle the tune. This was called 'The Old Gray Whistle Test' and it worked. Now pick a random modern tune off of the radio and see if you can whistle it or sing along to the lyrics.

Thought not.

You want some fun music? Here's some.

[james_s]

The main problem we have, is hearing 'modern' RAP crap!! I'm sorry, but that's not 'Music'. Why do
some 'lyrics' about drugs, mother-fu@#$%s, guns, & the Bronx in N.Y. have to do with life here??
Real songs are about true love, happiness & joy, a bit of fun, and the occasional blues/country.
Our music nights are happy, with sing-alongs & instruments, but that's just us... 

I don't know much about the current state of rap, but that pretty well describes rap and hip-hop from 25-35 years ago, it might be a bit late to be calling that stuff modern.

"Real songs" are any music that a person enjoys listening to, music often conveys a message from the artist to the listener, no one person gets to define what music is "real" and what isn't. Personally my taste spans all the way from classical to hard rock and heavy metal, covering nearly everything in between. About the only genre you're unlikely to ever find me listening to is gospel.

[james_s]

The interesting thing is that the music played on the radio & TV hasn't changed much since 1990. It is the same. I often laugh a little bit when I hear a new song on the radio which is then followed by a song from 25 years ago which has exactly the same style. Wash, rinse and repeat. It seems pop music has found an optimum where most people like it. Even songs from the 80's. For example: I have introduced 'take on me' from Aha to my youngest teenage son. Now his entire group of friends likes it.

That has happened to everything really. Look at cars, mobile phones, white goods, consumer electronics, software, fast food, movies, clothing, etc. Everything is virtually identical, there is less choice than ever before. I've pondered the reasons and suspect a lot of it has to do with the way development and marketing has become so data driven. It's all based on the result of the same algorithms processing the results of the same studies. Everything has been refined for maximum appeal to the largest group of people while ignoring everyone else. It all appeals highly to the ~70% who are in the hump of the bell curve of the "unwashed masses" and everyone else is stuck dealing with this.

Those of us who want a mobile phone that isn't gigantic and doesn't have a stupid notch or hole in the screen, a car that isn't a CUV, a refrigerator that isn't clad in a layer of cheap unpainted stainless, movies that aren't yet another remake, reboot or prequel, software with an interface that isn't flat and bland, or a radio station that plays something other than crappy music from a manufactured group are left out in the cold because there's more profit and less risk in following the trend than in being unique.

BUT the nice thing about music in particular is that it doesn't have to be manufactured for profit, it has been around for millennia and can be created by any individual with the skill and motivation. There are lots of independent artists out there, turn off the radio and go find them. 

[SiliconWizard]

The interesting thing is that the music played on the radio & TV hasn't changed much since 1990. It is the same. I often laugh a little bit when I hear a new song on the radio which is then followed by a song from 25 years ago which has exactly the same style. Wash, rinse and repeat. It seems pop music has found an optimum where most people like it. Even songs from the 80's. For example: I have introduced 'take on me' from Aha to my youngest teenage son. Now his entire group of friends likes it.

That has happened to everything really. Look at cars, mobile phones, white goods, consumer electronics, software, fast food, movies, clothing, etc. Everything is virtually identical, there is less choice than ever before. I've pondered the reasons and suspect a lot of it has to do with the way development and marketing has become so data driven. It's all based on the result of the same algorithms processing the results of the same studies. Everything has been refined for maximum appeal to the largest group of people while ignoring everyone else.

Yes, I think it has a lot to do with this. Optimizing EVERYTHING based on large samples has become the main way of dealing with marketing, and increasingly pretty much every aspect of life. Of course what it does is just asymptotically tend towards just one thing. Whereas it statistically optimizes "satisfaction" (and thus revenue), it's completely flawed. One flaw is of course ignoring all those that are not in the largest group as you said, but another one is that it assumes that whatever most people like the most at some point is the only thing that matters, and the only thing that they'll like! It's just brain-dead.

But it's the current trend for humankind, and I don't think it's going away any time soon. We must OPTIMIZE everything (but of course with always limited and flawed models).

Getting back to the original post, "fun" is an interesting point here actually. Optimizing what people are supposed to like is kinda the opposite of doing things for fun.

[SilverSolder]

It thought that Taylor Swift was just like Beliber until someone sent me this:
Reminded me of Neil Young at the Beeb(er)

Surprising side of Taylor Swift.  Not sure I agree with the Neil Young comparison even if I can see why you might postulate it.

[Ed.Kloonk]

It thought that Taylor Swift was just like Beliber until someone sent me this:
Reminded me of Neil Young at the Beeb(er)

Surprising side of Taylor Swift.  Not sure I agree with the Neil Young comparison even if I can see why you might postulate it.

The format of the performance is similar, I did realise that Joni Mitchell might perhaps be a more apt performer.
 

[Mr. Scram]

This thread is like a zoo for grumpy old men. 

[Ed.Kloonk]

Get off my lawn!

[SilverSolder]

This thread is like a zoo for grumpy old men. 

Millennials don't know what they're missing...  lucky for them, or they'd be terminally depressed.  Then again, the suicide rate for young women in the Millennial generation increased to 6.3 per 100,000 from 4.4 per 100,000 in Generation X - a ~50% increase - so maybe they actually are terminally depressed...

Proper stereo systems that groups of friends could enjoy together were replaced with personal masturbatory aids stuck in the ears, conducting musical garbage into their heads that makes Muzak look like a virtuoso performance.   No drug used in the 60's or 70's created addicts as sad as the cell phone addicted millennials, sitting alone together with white bits of plastic sticking out of their ears.

 

[Rerouter]

I would not say "lost its fun", but more diluted, Every new song that gets released makes up a smaller portion of what appeals to a given person out of the entire back catalog.

Back in the 70's you may have had say 100 artists you liked enough to seek out hearing them again each year, Why was that song you listened to as a teenager so Memorable?, because of lack of variety it was played a large amount and had time to cement itself, e.g. You would record it to tape when the radio played it to make up mix tapes, if the radio did not play it so you bought the record, and because they where not cheap you would listen to it multiple times including there B sides, likely more than once.

But now each week a catalog of a similar number of 8/10 or better songs are being released to the average persons taste, so the need to seek out hearing that song again instead of just continuing playing through the service your using is much less

These days you find a handful of 10/10 songs that speak to you every month or so, but it does not mean you will enjoy the rest of the artists releases on the first listen, all this leads to given songs having less impact,

I personally get trapped on those 10/10 songs, usually listening to them on repeat until my mind has understood what hooked it, then they become occasional treats as time goes on.

pop music is popular music, if you don't have enough exposure, then its not really pop,

[Cubdriver]

Fascinating series on music









-Pat