General > General Technical Chat
absurd marketing bullshittery
Stray Electron:
--- Quote from: jasonRF on June 01, 2022, 01:10:41 pm ---
once we find one that is safe we usually just continue to buy it as long as the label doesn’t change.
Jason
--- End quote ---
Not to take this too far off topic but I've seen a number of cases of US and Canadian manufacturered products that contain Chinese supplied ingredients where the Chinese changed the ingredient formulation without notifying the manufacturer (and the product label didn't change) and as result both people and animals died. That happened in the case of the toxic pet food about 10? years ago and the toxic infant formula several years ago and I know of at least two other less publicized cases. Also the case where (IIRC) Mattel toys were painted with paint from China and the Chinese paint subcontractor started adding lead to the paint pigment (in clear violation of his contract). The idea that the US and Canada are allowed to use Chinese supplied ingredients in FOOD, horrifies me!
Food, food ingredients and toys that get chewed on by animals and by children that are made in the US (and I assume most major countries) is rigorously monitored and tested but that's clearly not the case in China. I should add that China isn't the only country that is a problem, the US frequently has outbreaks of contaminated food that comes in from Mexico and south/central America. There is a big recall of strawberries from Mexico contaminated with E-Coli at the moment.
jasonRF:
--- Quote from: Stray Electron on June 01, 2022, 01:42:31 pm ---
--- Quote from: jasonRF on June 01, 2022, 01:10:41 pm ---
once we find one that is safe we usually just continue to buy it as long as the label doesn’t change.
Jason
--- End quote ---
Not to take this too far off topic but I've seen a number of cases of US and Canadian manufacturered products that contain Chinese supplied ingredients where the Chinese changed the ingredient formulation without notifying the manufacturer (and the product label didn't change) and as result both people and animals died. That happened in the case of the toxic pet food about 10? years ago and the toxic infant formula several years ago and I know of at least two other less publicized cases. Also the case where (IIRC) Mattel toys were painted with paint from China and the Chinese paint subcontractor started adding lead to the paint pigment (in clear violation of his contract). The idea that the US and Canada are allowed to use Chinese supplied ingredients in FOOD, horrifies me!
Food, food ingredients and toys that get chewed on by animals and by children that are made in the US (and I assume most major countries) is rigorously monitored and tested but that's clearly not the case in China. I should add that China isn't the only country that is a problem, the US frequently has outbreaks of contaminated food that comes in from Mexico and south/central America. There is a big recall of strawberries from Mexico contaminated with E-Coli at the moment.
--- End quote ---
The good food companies know this, and when you speak to the right person on the phone they will tell you things like, “we purchase the seasoning mix from another vendor and cannot guarantee it is gluten free”. But you have to call them to learn these things. Hence the reason “gluten free” labels are so wonderful.
Edit: likewise, some drug manufacturers keep track by lot number. I have made countless phone calls while at the store to see if a particular package is gluten-free. In some cases it seems like they might have more than one manufacturing facility, each with a different supply chain.
Jason
jasonRF:
--- Quote from: CatalinaWOW on May 31, 2022, 03:41:00 pm ---
--- Quote from: Assafl on May 31, 2022, 06:10:08 am ---Many people don't appreciate the wizardry that goes into making a shelf stable food product that will look appetizing and be safe for consumption - after weeks, or months or even years on a shelf in a non-airconditioned grocery.
Take syneresis - the expulsion of liquid from a gel (syneresis is what makes cheese separate from the whey which is expelled from the milk). Now say you want to make a shelf stable Jelly - Gelatin tends to undergo syneresis after a while (leave a home made Jelly in the fridge and it'll end up in a puddle), or a yogurt from cow's milk which doesn't have enough protein (and hence becomes a jelly like "yogurt-ish" thing - that BTW - usually has whey on top since Syneresis continues).
So you'll need to stabilize the gel. Adding more Gelatin will help (as will adding NFMS - Non-Fat-Milk-Solids to cow milk for Yogurt). Or you can add binders (water "glues" - or hydrocolloids) like flour, or carrageenan (think Danaone Yogurt), or Gellan, or Pectin - or usually - since each these will impart an unwanted flavor to the Gel if too much is used - a long list of these - each in a very small undetectable amount.
Some of these may have additional binders. Or agents that help them dissolve. Some - like Gellan - will become a snot like suspension in a liquid. It has to be powerfully sprayed into a liquid to disperse well. Try to mix corn starch into hot water and see how difficult it is to dissolve the lumps. Luckily for corn starch - it has no problem with cold water.
Or take a Snickers bar in a gas station... Shone on by sunlight during the day, cooled down at night. They melt - but unlike chocolate - keep its shape. In the past we'd know it underwent heating an cooling by the cocoa butter separating as a whitish sheen on the bar. I think they solved that. How - I don't know. My guess is something the stabilizes the chocolate emulsion. Also, when you see CMCs, those are cool - they harden when heated. Most hydrocolloids soften or melt when heated. If the food technologist wants something to remain stable when heated - CMC (a cellulose gum) will harden when heated. Great for that Snickers bar!
Many suppliers of these starches (companies like ADM, Cargill, American Starch, Ajinomoto, CP Kelco and many others) can sell the base product (e.g. Carrageenan Iota or Kappa, Acacia or Carob bean gums, Pectin) or sell a proprietary mix - (e.g. Stab 2000 from Louis Francois a manufacturer in France) - If it is proprietary - what does it contain - does it contain gluten?
So when I look at a "bag of (simple) chips" - I don't believe them. For example - how is the oil stabilized? What prevents it from going rancid? Nitrogen in the packaging helps. As does the air and UV tight modern (annoying to open) film bags. But still. Try to taste a day old chips - and it had better days... Usually they add anti-oxidants, which absorb the radicals without becoming free radicals themselves. Where are they in the ingredients list? Probably too low a concentration so that they have to be disclosed. In Japan, you'll usually find a tiny bag of oxygen scavenger (usually activated charcoal) that absorbs any spare oxygen that gets in... Like a getter in a vacuum tube. In Europe the regulators don't trust you to not eat the scavenger so it has to be in the food!
So being able to mark "Gluten Free" is really tracing back the sources in a food safety compliant way. It is hard work in any case in the modern technology heavy world. Definitely not a "marketing" logo in the sense of "stating the obvious" - but more in declaring the "this bag of chips is designed to suitable for a larger crowd than most other chips" - we are auditing our supply chain to ensure that indeed - no flour is used in making this product. The other chips may or may not have gluten - caveat emptor.
--- End quote ---
The "Gluten Free" marking should mean what you described. As I described in my earlier post a gluten sensitive acquaintance has discovered that this thorough process has not always happened. Hence it can be a different form of absurd marketing bullshittery. Either a complete lie (no tracing at all) or a partial lie (some tracing, but not enough to protect everyone).
The gluten sensitive posters who have expressed relief at how much easier it is to shop with this marking should take note of her experience. While those with lower levels of sensitivity may survive these stretches of the truth it has hospitalized the individual in question. I can't speak to whether her issue is an allergy or some extreme form of celiac disease or some third possibility - her condition is merely a proof of existence situation.
--- End quote ---
The best companies regularly test samples of their products for the presence of gluten. A standard test exists that is apparently sensitive enough. This helps catch any issues with their supply and production. Some companies have implemented this poorly, though (Cheerios created a fiasco that way - which was foreseen by some folks who had toured their facilicies). So again, research can be crucial to staying healthy.
Regarding the other comment: When celiacs have long-term exposure to gluten it can lead to extreme health conditions because of malabsorption of essential nutrients. One of the early gluten-free cookbook authors had ended up in a coma before she was diagnosed. Cannot recall which one - just remember reading the forward to her book not long after our daughter was diagnosed.
Terry Bites:
Most gluten free products never had gluten in to start with. Gluten intolerance is pretty rare though not according to internet "experts".
There could be a very vocal media savvy group within the coeliac community. Somehow I doubt it.
I'm selling gluten free solder if you need it.
Also available, low fat cat shit in a handy refillable pouch.
Health and wellbeing are good. The businesses that sell it to you are racketeers to man or woman. Thats it in a nutshell, pure kapalua coffee.
I hate coffee so I have a green tea instead. It contains loads of health giving goodies, just at lower levels than your regular cup.
Remember, if it has a slogan it must be a lie.
wraper:
--- Quote from: Terry Bites on June 05, 2022, 05:39:35 pm ---Most gluten free products never had gluten in to start with. Gluten intolerance is pretty rare though not according to internet "experts".
There could be a very vocal media savvy group within the coeliac community. Somehow I doubt it.
I'm selling gluten free solder if you need it.
--- End quote ---
Just because percentage of gluten intolerant people is not that high, it does not mean their life must be miserable. Coeliac disease which is the most serious condition affects about 0.5% of global population. And way more people have an allergy to gluten. As for me plenty enough to have a clear marking which does not take anything from you.
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