Agilent DSOX soon with integrated multimeter and 1GHz option

[termi]

I was just browsing the Agilent website and saw the the data sheet of the InfiniiVision 2000 series mentions an Integrated Digital Voltmeter option (DSOXDVM) and a 1 GHz option for the 3000 series.

http://cp.literature.agilent.com/litweb/pdf/5990-6618EN.pdf

Has anyone more information about this? Not that I could afford a 1 GHz scope... 

Edit: Note also the typos in the data sheet. I guess the marketing person was asleep when he/she uploaded this. 

[EEVblog]

So much for NDA's...   

Dave.

[benemorius]

Fascinating. Does anyone (that is, anyone who isn't legally bound to secrecy) know whether either of these licence keys is present in the current firmware? From my recollection the answer is no on both counts, but I should very much like to be proven wrong.

[robrenz]

Here is link to free awg and dvm option on both the 2000 and 3000 models on new purchase thru aug and good for all countries.

http://www.home.agilent.com/upload/cmc_upload/All/5866PFS.pdf

I think you saw the 7000 blurb in the 2000 specs that goes to 1Ghz. As far as I can tell the 3000 still stops at 500Mhz.

[termi]

@robrenz: I don't think the 1 GHz was referring the 7000 series. It's pretty clearly in the 3000 column, they even mention that the 1 GHz model has an increased sample rate of 5 GSa/s.

Edit: Thanks!

[benemorius]

The 1GHz analog bandwidth with 5GSa/s is clearly meant for the 3000x series:

[grenert]

"Three digit voltmeter"  I'll just look at the graticule, thanks 

[EEVblog]

Here is link to free awg and dvm option on both the 2000 and 3000 models on new purchase thru aug and good for all countries.
http://www.home.agilent.com/upload/cmc_upload/All/5866PFS.pdf

That's a good deal with the AWG for free.

Dave.

[Bored@Work]

Three digits for the DMM sounds what one can reasonable expect from the ADC in the oscilloscope. The DMM isn't very "multi", AC voltage, DC voltage and frequency, but this is also what one can expect from the input stage of an oscilloscope,  which likely wasn't designed with multimeter features in mind. The claim "An industry first" is of course exaggerated. There have been oscilloscopes with multimeters before. Of course it all depends on how narrow one defines "industry".

[mikeselectricstuff]

7-seg display for the  DVM is pretty lame - you have a high-res display so why make it look like a crappy LCD?

[EEVblog]

7-seg display for the  DVM is pretty lame - you have a high-res display so why make it look like a crappy LCD?

I rather like it 

Dave.

[Hypernova]

Me too, I like the feel of it which match the look of an actual DVM display.

Oh man that deal on the free AWG is tempting me badly, but I just bleed out 200k TWD (That's about 6.6K USD) for my grandparent's home nursing costs. Getting a 3000X would eat up all my remaining savings since working my first job out of uni last year.

[Rufus]

7-seg display for the  DVM is pretty lame - you have a high-res display so why make it look like a crappy LCD?

I agree, but, it matches how lame a 256 (or maybe 512 if you dither and are lucky) count meter is. I can barely see anyone using it if it were free so I don't see anyone is likely to pay for it. The scope hardware already has a frequency counter, maybe the DVM option makes it accessible on the 2000s.

The 1GHz/5GSa/s option is more interesting. Is it new hardware? Was the 350/500MHz front end designed for 1GHz? Is the ASIC/RAM currently underclocked?

[Baliszoft]

Bah! Just got an msox 2k! 

[MarkS]

My experience with scopes is, admittedly, non-existent, but I thought scopes already showed the voltage of the incoming signal.

[WBB]

An even better deal... If anyone is going to drop $20k on their 9000 series, I'll gladly take the complimentary 3000 series off your hands! Hell, I'll even pay the postage! 

Seriously though, tossing in the over priced wavegen does make the pricing a little easier to swallow.  Not that the scope was a bad deal before, but it is even better now.

[bongiovi]

7-seg display for the  DVM is pretty lame - you have a high-res display so why make it look like a crappy LCD?

Totally agree. 

1. Pretty messy implementation too, in my opinion.  Everything's cramped into one tiny box, and things are touching the borders.  There are plenty of space to the left you know ...

2. Wasted the right-hand section with the huge-ass 7-segment display.  Save the space for something more important, say more measurements, or display other settings.

As for the functionality, perhaps the decoupling of measurements from the triggering system is something worth to have, but I'm not that experienced enough to understand the usage.

Anyway, it's nice to see they are continuing to innovate.

[Bored@Work]

Of course even a mediocre DSO has some 20 or more build-in measurement functions, and often two frequency counters (one via the trigger circuit, typically reasonable accurate, and one in software, by analyzing the sample data, just like the other measurement functions).

Agilent is targeting the educational market with this multimeter. And probably those who would like a simpler way to access measurement data or can't handle an oscilloscope. It could also be because some (handheld) oscilloscopes come with bolted-on multimeters. And someone at Agilent added "multimeter" to the "should have" feature list.

If that is a clever idea by Agilent marketing? It depends how many suckers they find for the feature. I think, like with the wave gen license, they are missing the mark. And the whole idea of selling features piecemeal is archaic.

[ejeffrey]

If that is a clever idea by Agilent marketing? It depends how many suckers they find for the feature. I think, like with the wave gen license, they are missing the mark.

At least the wavegen is useful.  It provides a genuinely useful feature, they double up on their hardware use since the same DDS does the training signals, and the triggering gives a slight advantage to having it integrated into the scope.  The only problem with the wavegen is that it is expensive compared to a Chinese unit and lacking features compared to an Agilent stand alone wavegen.  For most of the time since release the wavegen license has been free to educational customers (at least).  Now I think they should cut the price in half or more for everybody, but I understand why they don't want to do that.

The DVM on the other hand seems like it has only has the most theoretical advantage over just reading the value off the normal measurement screen.  As near as I can tell the DVM uses the same AFE and ADC as the scope, but it doesn't use the same triggering circuit.  This means that you should get a true DC or RMS even if your capture buffer isn't an integer number of cycles.  If the scale and offset are set wrong you will still have meaningless results due to clipping and resolution limits.  Even if it used an independent 20,000 count autoranging DVM I can't really see the motivation for a DVM that shares its input jack with a scope, but at least there it has a shot of being useful to someone.

[Bored@Work]

If the scale and offset are set wrong you will still have meaningless results due to clipping and resolution limits.

If I understand the leaflet correctly it is auto-ranging.

I can't really see the motivation for a DVM that shares its input jack with a scope, but at least there it has a shot of being useful to someone.

I also don't see it, but if they target education "one less instrument on the bench", they might find some suckers. However, maybe they plan to give it away for education

[alm]

My guess is that they will give it to education customers for free. I can't imagine someone paying Agilent prices for a DMM inferior to those $50 cheapies, with even less resolution and accuracy, without current or resistance ranges, and with one side grounded.

Scopes with integrated DMMs were common back when field service techs often carried scopes and DMMs were bench-size instruments (eg. Fluke 8000A). These DMMs usually used separate inputs and had more features.

[grenert]

Scopes with integrated DMMs were common back when field service techs often carried scopes and DMMs were bench-size instruments (eg. Fluke 8000A). These DMMs usually used separate inputs and had more features.

The Tek 2236, now THAT is how to integrate a DMM/counter into your oscilloscope!

[EEVblog]

If that is a clever idea by Agilent marketing? It depends how many suckers they find for the feature. I think, like with the wave gen license, they are missing the mark. And the whole idea of selling features piecemeal is archaic.

The DVM feature is so primitive it does seem silly to actually charge for as an option, rather than simply include in the next firmware release as a nice bonus.
But that's where marketing steps in, as it's another feature they can advertise (because it is still quite novel, the "always live" part). And even if they don't ever suck anyone into actually paying for it, it's a good marketing tool as people like the idea of seemingly getting something for nothing "Oh, look, I get the DVM option for FREE! This month ONLY too, I'd better buy this month..."

Dave.

[EEVblog]

And the whole idea of selling features piecemeal is archaic.

And the more modern and better option for a business like them is...?

Dave.

[Bored@Work]

And the whole idea of selling features piecemeal is archaic.

And the more modern and better option for a business like them is...?

Dave.

All-inclusive.

To develop a feature like the DMM of course costs money, and I am all for getting paid for the work put in. But then marketing goes out and gives (education) licenses away for free, because they think it makes sense. Typically in a company marketing can't do that for free, but has to pay internally for each license given away. The money for such free licenses typically comes out of the marketing budget. So a company starts to internally shift "funny money" around, from the marketing budget to the license-sold account. "Funny money", because in the end all the money really comes from are the customers. I.e. other customers of the same and other products have to pay for this "free" licenses.

Shifting "funny money" around typically incurs administrative overhead, the cost of which is typically not explicitly specified. It complicates the internal structure of a company, makes things slower and keeps accountants busy.

Administering and providing the licenses (free or otherwise) requires an infrastructure that doesn't come for free, too. This eats into the profit, too.

All-inclusive also streamlines the order process, stock keeping, etc. It reduces the number of annoyed customers who's orders got screwed up. It reduces the load on support, who don't have to deal with broken licenses, or customers failing to activate them.

Not selling piecemeal also means less annoyed customers. Selling piecemeal is kind of a vicious cycle, you annoy customers, so you need to spend more on marketing, which in turn happens to give licenses away for free, to make customers happy again.

And now, it you have such a low-volume product, does it make sense to have all this overhead? Wouldn't it make more sense to just budget such a feature as part of the overall cost of the instrument, at a fraction of what the company has to ask for a separate license? While in the end not making much money from the licenses?