Alphaphoenix -- How does electricity find the path of least resistance?

[aetherist]

AlphaPhoenix (Brian) is again flogging his silly ideas re electrons making electricity.
"How does electricity find the path of least resistance?"

[yfayula]

Same way you get out of backed up traffic on the highway. You take the fastes or quickest road out of it. It's more like a connected highway, if there is a proper polarity in the circuit, then electrons are going to look for the least resistive path to get to the positive terminal from the negative. If you look also quantum physic it will explain to you in a more closed up detailed way.

[TimFox]

I suggest you look up the general topic of "variational principles" in physics.
Other examples include "principle of least action" (with a specific definition of "action"), Fermat's principle of least time (in geometrical optics), and the "Lagrangian method" in classical mechanics (see https://scholar.harvard.edu/files/david-morin/files/cmchap6.pdf).

[PlainName]

"How does electricity find the path of least resistance?"

We can see that it does, so the question is how does your aetherwork explain the result?

[AVGresponding]

"How does electricity find the path of least resistance?"

We can see that it does, so the question is how does your aetherwork explain the result?

It doesn't. It'll be a word salad with a dressing of pseudo-scientific babble, and very definitely NO equations or anything remotely testable.

[aetherist]

"How does electricity find the path of least resistance?"

We can see that it does, so the question is how does your aetherwork explain the result?

Skoolkids will be familiar with my elekton elekticity -- where photons (elektons) propagate along (hug) the surface of a conductor at the speed of light – search my postings on this forum.
In recent months i have perfected my elekton elekticity – i have redefined conductors – indeed i have redefined metals.
More to follow.
Aether aint needed in any special way here today – alltho aether of course gives us everything that we see & feel in our world.

[aetherist]

Same way you get out of backed up traffic on the highway. You take the fastest or quickest road out of it. It's more like a connected highway, if there is a proper polarity in the circuit, then electrons are going to look for the least resistive path to get to the positive terminal from the negative. If you look also quantum physic it will explain to you in a more closed up detailed way.

AlphaPhoenix spends most of his youtube dealing with a single path – with lots of dead-ends coming off his single path – so, he is not dealing with a path of least resistance – he is dealing with a single  solitary path – until the last part of his youtube where he duz introduce multiple paths (2 paths to be exact).
So, to quickly find the true path through his maze, all he needs to do is to pull on both ends of his maze, & the true solitary path will immediately bekum kleer, it will form a straight tight line, with the dead-ends hanging from it.

[aetherist]

"How does electricity find the path of least resistance?"

We can see that it does, so the question is how does your aetherwork explain the result?

It doesn't. It'll be a word salad with a dressing of pseudo-scientific babble, and very definitely NO equations or anything remotely testable.

On the contrary -- your answers/theory are a pseudo-scientific equation salad -- the real answers are based on real tests, which your silly theory fails.
Its like this……….
Electron electricity is a model, it aint reality.
The electron equations are in effect models of models. They give good numbers in some cases, but fail in other ways.
My elekton elekticity ticks all boxes.
One strike & my elekton elekticity is out.

[aetherist]

I suggest you look up the general topic of "variational principles" in physics.
Other examples include "principle of least action" (with a specific definition of "action"), Fermat's principle of least time (in geometrical optics), and the "Lagrangian method" in classical mechanics (see https://scholar.harvard.edu/files/david-morin/files/cmchap6.pdf).

Elekton elekticity can be modelled in many ways, as can lots of things.
AlphaPhoenix loves his hydraulic model, which works for some aspects, but fails in other ways.

U have mentioned geometrical optics. Aktually, this is getting warm. My elektons are photons, albeit photons that are in effect confined in 2 dimensions (the area of the surface of the conductor).
And elektons are unlike free photons, free photons are photons that are confined in 1  dimension (they propagate along a line). And free photons do not have a nett charge in the far field, whereas my elektons have a negative charge, equal to the charge of the silly standard electron.
More later.

[AndyBeez]

Warning, contains flashing images:

[aetherist]

ELEKTONS & ELEKTICITY & ELEKTRONS FOR BEGINNERS.
1.  A good conductor of elekticity can be called a metal.
2.  A metal is a good conductor of elekticity.
3.  A metal has a thin layer of elektons on its outside surface – that is what makes it a metal.
4.  Non-metals do not have a layer of elektons on their surfaces.
5.  Elektons are photons that hug the surface….
6.  Whilst propagating at the speed of light in the medium touching the surface (eg air)(eg plastic insulation).
7.  Elektons move in every direction on the surface of a say Cu wire – but (eventually) mainly along.
8.  The propagation speed of elektons duznt depend on the kind of metal – all kinds of metals give the same speed.
9.  The ruffness of the surface slows the speed of elektons – due to the extra distance up&down over the ruffness.
10.  Elektons have a negative charge, equal to the charge attributed to the (silly) standard electron.
11.  Elektons go straight ahead – except that their trajekt is affected by other elektons (due to repulsion).
12.  Hence, after a while, elektons tend to move mainly along a wire (albeit in both directions).
13.  And, elektons follow the surface.
14.  If the surface of a wire duz a u-turn (eg at the blunt end of a wire) then elektons do a u-turn at the end (koz the surface duz a u-turn)(ie elektons follow the surface).
15.  Elektons form a thin negatively charged outer surface layer due to repulsion from atomic elektrons.
16.  Atomic elektrons are photons that orbit (hug) an atomic nucleus.
17.  The outer orbital elektrons escape from the nucleus, & form an outer layer of elektons (now hugging the general surface rather than hugging individual nuclei).
18.  The elektons are attracted to the positively charged nuclei.
19.  Different metals will have a different degree of saturation of elektons.
20.  The better conductors will have a denser saturation of elektons.
21.  A battery can supply elektons at the positive terminal….
22.  And rob elektons at the negative terminal.
23.  The supply etc of elektons can result in what we call voltage, or potential.
24.  The supply etc of elektons can result in what we call charge.
25.  A dead-end length of wire touching a positive terminal will be saturated with elektons going both ways along the wire (doing u-turns at the dead-end).
26.  Elektons do not reflekt off or at a dead-end (they do a u-turn).
27.  When the flow of elektons going each way is equal then their magnetic fields cancel…
28.  And hence their nett magnetic field is zero (in the far field)….
29.  And there is no heat loss in the wire.
30.  A dead-end length of wire touching a negative terminal will be saturated with elektons going both ways along the wire (doing u-turns at the dead-end).
31.  The numbers of elektons going up & down a dead-end wire will depend on the degree of saturation.
32a.  The degree of saturation will depend on the surface area available etc….
32b.  And whether the wire has a coating of insulation.
33.  This saturation creates what we call resistance….
34.  Or, if u like, this resistance creates saturation (many processes are chicken'&'egg).
35.  Once u have learnt the above rules then u will understand that if u somehow discharge/short/earth a length (L) of wire, then u can expect that the primary discharge will take a duration of 2L/c seconds (ie it wont take L/c seconds).
36.  And the discharge voltage will be V/2 (ie it wont be the more obvious V/1)
37.  And if that there wire is insulated then the duration will take 3L/c seconds (as per (6) & (32b)).
Enuff for today.

[AVGresponding]

On the contrary -- your answers/theory are a pseudo-scientific equation salad -- the real answers are based on real tests, which your silly theory fails.

I posed no theory, I made an observation, which continues to hold true. The fact that you are (apparently) unable to tell the difference is not a surprise; it follows your pattern exactly.

Its like this……….
Electron electricity is a model, it aint reality.
The electron equations are in effect models of models. They give good numbers in some cases, but fail in other ways.
My elekton elekticity ticks all boxes.
One strike & my elekton elekticity is out.

Prove it.
Produce equations that explain the observations of reality.
Outline a repeatable experiment that tests these equations.

Until you do this, no-one will take you seriously, and for good reason. Your ideas are as aethereal as the name you use to describe them; they have no substance whatsoever.

[aetherist]

On the contrary -- your answers/theory are a pseudo-scientific equation salad -- the real answers are based on real tests, which your silly theory fails.

I posed no theory, I made an observation, which continues to hold true. The fact that you are (apparently) unable to tell the difference is not a surprise; it follows your pattern exactly.

Its like this……….
Electron electricity is a model, it aint reality.
The electron equations are in effect models of models. They give good numbers in some cases, but fail in other ways.
My elekton elekticity ticks all boxes.
One strike & my elekton elekticity is out.

Prove it.
Produce equations that explain the observations of reality.
Outline a repeatable experiment that tests these equations.
Until you do this, no-one will take you seriously, and for good reason. Your ideas are as aethereal as the name you use to describe them; they have no substance whatsoever.

True u posed no theory. But we can assume that u believe one of the standard theories of electricity. So, for starters, allow me to advise that all of the standard electricity theories fail to predict or explain the measured discharge of a capacitor – as shown by the Wakefield Experiment(s) – see links below.
The Wakefield X shows that a capacitor takes twice as long to discharge, with a half of the voltage, when compared to the silly electron electricity predictions (or if u prefer, the silly Poynting Field or Poynting Vector predictions).
The true measured results support Ivor Catt's energy current -- & support my elekton elekticity.
But both can't be correct.
Some links are as follows……….
http://www.ivorcatt.co.uk/x343.pdf
https://beyondmainstream.org/the-wakefield-experiments-background-and-motivation/
http://www.ivorcatt.co.uk/x68k.htm
http://www.naturalphilosophy.org/site/harryricker/2015/12/12/the-wakefield-experiments-background-and-motivation/
http://www.ivorcatt.co.uk/x2571.pdf
http://www.ivorcatt.co.uk/9652.htm
http://www.ivorcatt.co.uk/x2574.htm
http://www.ivorcatt.co.uk/x2573.pdf

[PlainName]

Some links are as follows……….
http://www.ivorcatt.co.uk/x343.pdf

He postulates that on closing the relay the drop to half voltage is caused by half the charge rushing one way at the speed of light and half the other way at the speed of light. That latter then bouncing off the end and following the first down the now closed connection.

My question on this, which also applies to your:

11.  Elektons go straight ahead – except that their trajekt is affected by other elektons (due to repulsion).
12.  Hence, after a while, elektons tend to move mainly along a wire (albeit in both directions).

How does the stuff (your elektrons, his charge) know the wire goes this way or that? Surely the stuff will go in every possible direction, thus there won't be a flow along an unconnected wire. At best, only a very small proportion will be aimed along the wire and the majority will be aimed at the sides. True, they will bounce off the sides and effectively move along the wire, but in that case you wouldn't see a sharp transition where half the charge exits and then the other half catches up. It would be a gradual change as all the non-aligned stuff bounces along and exits after a much longer travel.

You could also say that half the charge (elektons) are moving to one side of the wire and the other half the other side. That would be just as valid using your logic, but you don't hint at that.

[TimFox]

Current conduction in metals.
Consider DC current in Copperweld^TM copper-coated steel wire.
https://www.copperweld.com/
The DC resistance of a length of such wire is a function of the cross-sectional areas of the two materials, not the surface.
This can be tested yourself with an ohmmeter, or you can consider the manufacturer's data in their website.

[Simon]

ELEKTONS & ELEKTICITY & ELEKTRONS FOR BEGINNERS.

3.  A metal has a thin layer of elektons on its outside surface – that is what makes it a metal.

wrong, it is not the electrons on the outside surface that make something a metal.

4.  Non-metals do not have a layer of elektons on their surfaces.

Wrong, how do you explain static?

5.  Elektons are photons that hug the surface….
6.  Whilst propagating at the speed of light in the medium touching the surface (eg air)(eg plastic insulation).
7.  Elektons move in every direction on the surface of a say Cu wire – but (eventually) mainly along.
8.  The propagation speed of elektons duznt depend on the kind of metal – all kinds of metals give the same speed.
9.  The ruffness of the surface slows the speed of elektons – due to the extra distance up&down over the ruffness.
10.  Elektons have a negative charge, equal to the charge attributed to the (silly) standard electron.
11.  Elektons go straight ahead – except that their trajekt is affected by other elektons (due to repulsion).
12.  Hence, after a while, elektons tend to move mainly along a wire (albeit in both directions).

Ke?

13.  And, elektons follow the surface.
14.  If the surface of a wire duz a u-turn (eg at the blunt end of a wire) then elektons do a u-turn at the end (koz the surface duz a u-turn)(ie elektons follow the surface).
15.  Elektons form a thin negatively charged outer surface layer due to repulsion from atomic elektrons.
16.  Atomic elektrons are photons that orbit (hug) an atomic nucleus.
17.  The outer orbital elektrons escape from the nucleus, & form an outer layer of elektons (now hugging the general surface rather than hugging individual nuclei).

Nope!

18.  The elektons are attracted to the positively charged nuclei.

One in 18 assertions so far

19.  Different metals will have a different degree of saturation of elektons.
20.  The better conductors will have a denser saturation of elektons.

Ke'?

21.  A battery can supply elektons at the positive terminal….
22.  And rob elektons at the negative terminal.

sounds like over unity of electrons

23.  The supply etc of elektons can result in what we call voltage, or potential.
24.  The supply etc of elektons can result in what we call charge.
25.  A dead-end length of wire touching a positive terminal will be saturated with elektons going both ways along the wire (doing u-turns at the dead-end).
26.  Elektons do not reflekt off or at a dead-end (they do a u-turn).
27.  When the flow of elektons going each way is equal then their magnetic fields cancel…
28.  And hence their nett magnetic field is zero (in the far field)….
29.  And there is no heat loss in the wire.
30.  A dead-end length of wire touching a negative terminal will be saturated with elektons going both ways along the wire (doing u-turns at the dead-end).
31.  The numbers of elektons going up & down a dead-end wire will depend on the degree of saturation.
32a.  The degree of saturation will depend on the surface area available etc….
32b.  And whether the wire has a coating of insulation.
33.  This saturation creates what we call resistance….
34.  Or, if u like, this resistance creates saturation (many processes are chicken'&'egg).
35.  Once u have learnt the above rules then u will understand that if u somehow discharge/short/earth a length (L) of wire, then u can expect that the primary discharge will take a duration of 2L/c seconds (ie it wont take L/c seconds).
36.  And the discharge voltage will be V/2 (ie it wont be the more obvious V/1)
37.  And if that there wire is insulated then the duration will take 3L/c seconds (as per (6) & (32b)).
Enuff for today.

Can't be fucked with the rest!

[T3sl4co1l]

Hey Simon,

Can we just hurry up and close this?  Maybe the Tesla thread too. https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/tesla-hairpin-circuit-curious-phenomenon/?topicseen

Tim

[PlainName]

The DC resistance of a length of such wire is a function of the cross-sectional areas of the two materials, not the surface.
This can be tested yourself with an ohmmeter, or you can consider the manufacturer's data in their website.

Wouldn't that depend on the current used to test?

[TimFox]

No.
For metals and metal alloys, Ohm's Law (the linear approximation to current density being proportional to voltage gradient) is quite accurate and the current in a wire is proportional to the voltage applied to the total length.
At higher frequencies, the skin depth effects the proportionality constant (Ohms^-1).
If the current is high enough to heat the wire, then this constant will change with temperature (temperature co-efficient of resistance) and the dimensions of the wire may change (thermal expansion).
Superconductors (not discussed here) do have a critical value of maximum current density.

[PlainName]

I was thinking of it being akin to, say, a 1/4W 1R resistor (the skin) in parallel with a 5W 10R resistor (the core). You'd be seeing a fraction less than 1R until you shove, say, 4W through it and then it's 10R.

[TimFox]

In that abnormal case, you "blow" the smaller-power resistor long before you destroy the higher-power resistor as you increase the current through the parallel combination.
Somewhere above 1/2 A current, you reach the manufacturer's rating on the 1/4 W resistor.
With the small resistor open circuit, it takes about 0.7 A to reach the 5 W rating on the 10R resistor.
(In my practical experience, to actually get an open circuit, not just a lot of smoke, requires much higher current on such resistors.)
This is in the realm of fuse theory, which are not linear resistors.
Nothing like that happens in the case of the Copperweld^TM copper-coated steel resistor.
Skin effect (at higher frequencies) is a different phenomenon.

[aetherist]

On the contrary -- your answers/theory are a pseudo-scientific equation salad -- the real answers are based on real tests, which your silly theory fails.

I posed no theory, I made an observation, which continues to hold true. The fact that you are (apparently) unable to tell the difference is not a surprise; it follows your pattern exactly.

Its like this……….
Electron electricity is a model, it aint reality.
The electron equations are in effect models of models. They give good numbers in some cases, but fail in other ways.
My elekton elekticity ticks all boxes.
One strike & my elekton elekticity is out.

Prove it.
Produce equations that explain the observations of reality.
Outline a repeatable experiment that tests these equations.

Until you do this, no-one will take you seriously, and for good reason. Your ideas are as aethereal as the name you use to describe them; they have no substance whatsoever.

Allow me to have a second bite at this.
I am ok with u posing no theory – ie with u posing no hypothesis. So far so good.
But, then u insist that i prove my elekton elekticity. Here u are insisting that i do something that has never been done by anyone else in the history of science.
No theory can be proven.
But a theory can be falsified.
Like i said, one strike & my elekton elekticity is out.
All that u have to do is to raise one test or somesuch that my elekton elekticity can't pass --- or better still, fails.

U ask for an experiment that tests my elekton elekticity. Ok i have one. My elekton elekticity says that the speed of elekticity will be slower along a threaded rod, due to the extra distance up&down over the threads.

[Simon]

Hey Simon,

Can we just hurry up and close this?  Maybe the Tesla thread too. https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/tesla-hairpin-circuit-curious-phenomenon/?topicseen

Tim

agreed