Big company Intellectual Property concerns on the forum

[EEVblog]

So I get this email from the legal counsel at a big company who shall remain nameless, pointing out a competing Chinese product that is violating their IP. Ok.
Their concern is this product has been mentioned and discussed on this forum several times, by users, and as such, they "would appreciate your cooperation to strictly moderate postings on the forum regarding this product".
i.e. they are asking me to remove and moderate all past and future discussion of this product on the forum.
I declined to do so on the grounds that:
a) There is none of the companies IP being violated on the forum (which I am strict on and will remove)
b) This is what the forum is for, open discussion of industry products.
c) Moderation of such things is against the "open" nature of this community forum, and will hurt the reputation of the forum.

It seems as though they can't shut down this Chinese product directly, so they have to go after stifling all mention of it by indirect means.
IMO they can fight their own battles, this is not the place to do it.

Discuss...

[Kjelt]

You could accomodate them maybe by editing the first post about this product and mentioning that this product violates the IP of this company.
But removing and moderating free discussions on a free open forum sounds very much like censorship 

[ElektroQuark]

Let the big company remain nameless.
What's the Chinese product?

[EEVblog]

You could accomodate them maybe by editing the first post about this product and mentioning that this product violates the IP of this company.

That's a possibility. But one poster already pointed that it does anyway.
And mention of it is not all contained in one thread.

[HackedFridgeMagnet]

I don't suppose you could post the whole letter from the big company? In the interests of transparency.

[Kjelt]

That's a possibility. But one poster already pointed that it does anyway.
And mention of it is not all contained in one thread.

Well follow your gut feeling, as long as you don't go to battle with these companies, because they have huge warchests which might worst case result in the end of the forum which is something you and we all don't want.

[EEVblog]

I don't suppose you could post the whole letter from the big company? In the interests of transparency.

I don't think I'd like to do that without their permission, and I don't really see a need to do at this stage. They didn't piss me off that much :->

[jpb]

You could accomodate them maybe by editing the first post about this product and mentioning that this product violates the IP of this company.
But removing and moderating free discussions on a free open forum sounds very much like censorship 

It might be better to state that you have received a statement from company X that this product violates their IP, rather than categorically stating that it violates company X's IP. It might even be better to allow company X to make a statement as a posting and the Chinese company to respond if they like.

It is best to avoid taking sides in any way both from the point of view of neutrality and also because you don't want to get involved in any legal dispute with either party.

An interesting recent case is that of Dyson and Samsung :

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-26242865

[EEVblog]

It might even be better to allow company X to make a statement as a posting and the Chinese company to respond if they like.

I have invited them to do so.

[amyk]

Good for you!

Nice to see someone who stands up to this kind of crap. Go for it!

+1 Just say no to censorship.

[codeboy2k]

Lots of companies make big claims that another company is violating their IP. I'd be curious to know if these are just claims or have they stood up to the test in court?

Even if they have WON in court, there is absolutely no precedent for you or anyone else for that matter to stop talking about the infringing product.

[digsys]

Most IP / patents are BS anyway. No rules in OZ that say you can't talk or discuss technology EVEN if it is IP / patented.
I'd ignore them and wait for the next email .. IF there is any.

[dexters_lab]

It's it's the product that is infringing not the forum, their lawyers should be spending time trying to block the sales, import and ultimately bring a case in china against the company that made the product.

Not hassling some forum where its been discussed.

[c4757p]

The fact that they think they can just make all mentions of a competing product vanish is, frankly, adorable.

Whoever this company is, they have some funny ideas about the way the world works.

[andtfoot]

The fact that they think they can just make all mentions of a competing product vanish is, frankly, adorable.

Whoever this company is, they have some funny ideas about the way the world works.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streisand_effect

   

[dr.diesel]

Corporate bullies, please expose them so I can make better buying decisions in the future.

[EEVblog]

I'd ignore them and wait for the next email .. IF there is any.

I responded and told them no, it's not going to happen.

[DL8RI]

Corporate bullies, please expose them so I can make better buying decisions in the future.

As far as I understand it, they did not threaten Dave/the Forum but asked him. So that's Okay for me.
There are some real bold ripoffs around like the several Hakko-Clones or this indian "GMC"-meters.
And there are some people selling this stuff aggressively trying to promote their crap here.

I can imagine, the "original designers" not really being happy about that.

Therefore I can understand this mail. And -as I said- I think it's Okay as long as they don't threaten Dave.
I was Moderator/Administrator in a bigger Forum (>700000 Users) for nearly 10 Years. We had more than one time some "unhappy Company-Lawyer". Some were nice, some were assholes.

And I don't think they have to be really worried. As for example a thread I was following was the one about this Indian Gossen-Clones. They were pretty quick unmasked as ripoffs and the seller who wanted to marked this things had a quite hard time.

[jucole]

Firstly I personally think its pretty rude of the company to send a formal email instead of an informal call /email to you!  secondly this is a forum to discuss all things electronics, so long as the posts aren't outside the "unwritten rules";    I mean it's like a child walking up to group of strangers and saying don't play with that boy xy  because he bent my finger back and then pulled my nose!

Some free advice to said company; don't burn your bridges - reach out to the community to help you;  tell us your story.   surely it makes more sense to go after people selling your infringed products rather than people talking about them?   Why not offer an incentive to people to buy direct from you or your dealers.

But isn't this the very nature of the game?  you make a product,  you reap the cheap production costs overseas, you make some profit and you then you fully understand the risks involved about potential IP infringement.

[dr.diesel]

As far as I understand it, they did not threaten Dave/the Forum but asked him. So that's Okay for me.

For most people just receiving a letter from some huge company with a thousand lawyers frightens them.  Then asking for "strict" moderation of the forums, when Dave has no legal obligation to do so, they are most definitely attempting to push their weight around.

[brabus]

Honestly, I find the whole situation a bit weird.
A Chinese company is violating an IP? OK, but how could a forum censorship help solving the problem? 

I find the email very unprofessional, and tout court senseless. Why do they have to attack a public forum? We should then block any person who is just talking about that product, or even thinking about it? This is BS.

If a company is concerned about writing an email to Dave Jones to solve an IP violation issue, I am sorry to communicate them that their problem is not the Forum, but themselves.

Pathetic.

[TerraHertz]

Post a notice on your site that you charge $5000 per hour to consider the merit of legal representations sent to your site regarding IPR issues, and that sending you such communications signifies agreement to your terms.

Then next time you get such a letter, instead of replying "No", you can reply "No. Invoice for my time spent examining your claims and determining they are spurious: $5000."

[EEVblog]

For most people just receiving a letter from some huge company with a thousand lawyers frightens them.  Then asking for "strict" moderation of the forums, when Dave has no legal obligation to do so, they are most definitely attempting to push their weight around.

In this case I don't think it's a command from anyone high up to target the forum, I think it's just a case of an internal IP laywer being generally tasked with trying to stop IP infringement and they are doing searches and finding stuff like this forum, and they are trying to be "pro-active".
It is clear they know they don't have a leg to stand on, and it's certainly not threatening, and are asking for my co-operation in helping them. With the usual subtle lawyer-ish overtones of course. It is far from a cease-and-desist. It may in fact be a bit of a form-ish like response to many forums / websites.

[DL8RI]

For most people just receiving a letter from some huge company with a thousand lawyers frightens them.  Then asking for "strict" moderation of the forums, when Dave has no legal obligation to do so, they are most definitely attempting to push their weight around.

Depends on the letter/mail. Since Dave saw the opportunity to just say no, I don't see the point to make such a big fuss ("Pathetic", "attack" "Rude") about it. If they now try to threaten the Forum in any way, that's another story. And as I said, if the forum grows more, this will become "daily business" for Dave.

Maybe they take the invitation to, instead of removing the product, to talk about it. I would appreciate it. If they don't, they don't.

[GEuser]

Engineers will fix it all up!