Citroen Ami E hackable you bet it is

[mikeselectricstuff]

even with a small bump on a almost new electric car, as the battery is not replaceable, sends the car to the trash ...
having standard exchangeable batterie modules between car manufacturers would be the best thing to build for the planet...
but it will surely not be.

There are plenty of people replacing & refurbishing EV batteries. And re-using the module in other applications like home storage

[Siwastaja]

even with a small bump on a almost new electric car, as the battery is not replaceable, sends the car to the trash ...

Do people actually believe this bullcrap? I mean, are people like kripton2035 actually serious, or just trolling?

[kripton2035]

if the bump touches the battery pack, yes it's almost certainly to the trash ...
the repair will cost more than the car.

[Siwastaja]

if the bump touches the battery pack, yes it's almost certainly to the trash ...
the repair will cost more than the car.

For example, Nissan Leaf 40kWh model,
cost of car: 30000€
cost of brand new battery pack + install work at Nissan: 8000-9000€, so around 1/3rd of the cost of the car
cost of refurbished battery pack + selling the damaged pack for modules at 3rd party: 3000-4000€, so around 1/10th of the cost of the car

[kripton2035]

seems it greatly depends on the car brand ...
https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/scratched-ev-battery-your-insurer-may-have-junk-whole-car-2023-03-20/

[Fred27]

A company called Better Place tried (and failed) with the battery swap thing many years ago, Perhaps it was too soon for the idea.

There is a bit more potential for urban electric scooters/mopeds which don't need such a large battery pack, and occasional rumours of manufacturers standardizing on a physical battery pack format.

[BrokenYugo]

seems it greatly depends on the car brand ...
https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/scratched-ev-battery-your-insurer-may-have-junk-whole-car-2023-03-20/

Sounds more like a combination of the "just copy the hip trendy one and call it a day" design practices, lack of service data, and general automotive cheapassery than an actual issue with the tech. Anything delicate under a car exposed to the road will be damaged eventually, anyone who works on or builds cars knows that, but Tesla did it and it cheapens assembly, so everyone else does it.

Makes far more sense to me to have a more traditional unibody car shell with a steel floor pan at the lowest point, then load in and wire up a battery pack in 2-4 pieces bolted ABOVE the floor structure (should be air gap between the skin and battery skin to allow for dents), then the cabin floor and interior above the layer of batteries, but that's slightly more materials and assembly work than just bolting a big glued together throwaway assembly straight to the bottom, so that's what happens.

[Siwastaja]

Also just remember that media lives off clickbaits and controversy. Same media outlet can alternatively do strongly opinionated pro-EV and anti-EV news articles and provide many times the clicks compared to how boring it was if they stayed truthful.

Facts are:
All EVs have some cover on the underside of the battery pack. Some worse, some better.
A "scratch" won't cause any EV battery to become write off. It has to be more than a "scratch". An actual dent, deformation.
Most EV batteries can be repaired if damage is small.
Most EV batteries can be replaced.
Most EV batteries have aftermarket even after damage.
Complete write-off due to simple damage from small road debris is very rare.

There are many grains of truth in articles like published by Reuters, and I applaud the critique which is deserved, but these articles are written in very exaggerating and misleading ways to create controversy, which creates money.

[Bud]

if the bump touches the battery pack, yes it's almost certainly to the trash ...
the repair will cost more than the car.

For example, Nissan Leaf 40kWh model,
cost of car: 30000€
cost of brand new battery pack + install work at Nissan: 8000-9000€, so around 1/3rd of the cost of the car
cost of refurbished battery pack + selling the damaged pack for modules at 3rd party: 3000-4000€, so around 1/10th of the cost of the car

Tell it to this guy

https://vancouver.citynews.ca/2023/12/11/hyundai-ev-battery-icbc-cost/

[Bud]

Incompetence of who? Hyundai Canada was involved and even with the case being broadcast on national TV, all Hyundai could do is offer the guy a tiny discount if he buys a new vehicle ftom them. Very far from "battery only cost 10% of the car" somebody said here.

[vk6zgo]

if the bump touches the battery pack, yes it's almost certainly to the trash ...
the repair will cost more than the car.

For example, Nissan Leaf 40kWh model,
cost of car: 30000€
cost of brand new battery pack + install work at Nissan: 8000-9000€, so around 1/3rd of the cost of the car
cost of refurbished battery pack + selling the damaged pack for modules at 3rd party: 3000-4000€, so around 1/10th of the cost of the car

Tell it to this guy

https://vancouver.citynews.ca/2023/12/11/hyundai-ev-battery-icbc-cost/

It's a Hyundai---that's why!

My daughter bought a Hyundai Accent. (I.C. car)
Nice car till the engine blew up.

She then had to wait for months for warranty repair to be completed, (the beginning of a degree of discontentment with the brand).

A while later, she was in the middle of a 5 car pile up.
The Accent "didn't look that bad", but was a "write off".

OK, it was replaced with a new Accent, so she was happy enough, but a year later an old bloke plowed into her as she was entering our local street.
Again, the car "didn't look that bad", but it was also a "write off".

This time the insurance company paid her out, so she bought a Toyota Corolla.
Some time later, she was butted from behind by a bus.

The Corolla "didn't look that bad" & was drivable!

She put off getting it repaired for a while, then whilst she was turning into our driveway, a lady in a Holden Commodore drove into the LH rear of the car. (yes, she IS unlucky)

It looked much worse than either Hyundai had, but it has been repaired.

It seems that for some brands of car, the default is "write-off".

[Siwastaja]

Hyundai is incompetent

Assuming the case described in the article is true: they are not necessarily incompetent, just run shitty business politics. Depending on country, this would be likely an easy win with consumer protection authorities or in court, but not everyone goes that far, and then refusing a warranty repair only costs a dent in reputation and many companies simply do not care about their reputation.

Again it depends on country, but whenever the term "warranty" is used it's a pretty strong consumer protection thing, specifically in EU. It roughly means reversal of the burden of proof. The manufacturer would need to make a strong case against the consumer to show the failure is consumer's fault. Don't know about Canada, though, probably different story.

Bullshit like this happens. There is no evidence, anecdotal or hard, that this is somehow more prevalent in EVs. Internal combustion engines have a lot of similar stories of self-destruction and very expensive engine replacements. And cars in general, some manufacturers think that a relatively small body damage is a total write-off.

It is also well possible the story, which only tells one side, is highly biased. Ridiculously high prices are just a way of saying "go away" without literally saying go away. There might be reasons why they do this that we don't know about.

[Bud]

A guy like RichRebuilds can just epoxy a new gland on and get it working like that.

Please dont make people laugh. We are talking oficcial assessments of the vehicle being road worthy in an urban environment and highways, not DIY patches applied to a tractor that rides at a private farm. Run your RichRebuilds by your auto insurance and see what they say.

[langwadt]

A guy like RichRebuilds can just epoxy a new gland on and get it working like that.

Please dont make people laugh. We are talking oficcial assessments of the vehicle being road worthy in an urban environment and highways, not DIY patches applied to a tractor that rides at a private farm. Run your RichRebuilds by your auto insurance and see what they say.

hyperbole much? ICE car get repairs like that and aftermarket parts all the time, why would EVs be so special?