Author Topic: DIGIKEY sold me 8 Years Old electrolytic caps?!?  (Read 5299 times)

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Offline ColdPowerTopic starter

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DIGIKEY sold me 8 Years Old electrolytic caps?!?
« on: December 21, 2020, 11:34:46 am »
Hi everyone,

I've been reading the forum for years, but never actually got involved. Last week however, this just stunned me, so thought I'd ask what you think and if anyone else had the same issue, could be normal - what do I know!

So, as the title says, I just had some caps delivered last week, and turns out, they're about 7.5-8 years old. I always though electrolytic caps purchased by big suppliers would be no more than a couple of years old, admittedly I've had 3-4 years old caps delivered by same supplier before, but those were ELNA Silmic II, so I didn't question it too much as they're likely not the most selling ones and stayed for a while. But seriously - 8? What's the usual shelf life of these caps, had a look at the datasheet, but didn't see anything...

Should I be angry at Digikey or just to myself, for not knowing better  ;D

Merry Christmas!
 

Offline S. Petrukhin

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Re: DIGIKEY sold me 8 Years Old electrolytic caps?!?
« Reply #1 on: December 21, 2020, 11:40:17 am »
Don't you have the means to test them?
And sorry for my English.
 

Offline BravoV

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Re: DIGIKEY sold me 8 Years Old electrolytic caps?!?
« Reply #2 on: December 21, 2020, 11:40:26 am »
Assuming you have LCR to measure it and its up to spec, then what is the problem ?

Shelf life never mentioned, as I guess its heavily depends on the environment where and how its stored.

Online nctnico

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Re: DIGIKEY sold me 8 Years Old electrolytic caps?!?
« Reply #3 on: December 21, 2020, 11:41:43 am »
Assuming you have LCR to measure it and its up to spec, then what is the problem ?

Shelf life never mentioned, as I guess its heavily depends on the environment where and how its stored.
Shelf life for electrolytics is pretty short and always specified in datasheets (from A-brands).
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline jpanhalt

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Re: DIGIKEY sold me 8 Years Old electrolytic caps?!?
« Reply #4 on: December 21, 2020, 11:41:44 am »
There are different types of electrolytic caps.  Please tell us what type they are and the DK part number(s).
 

Offline ColdPowerTopic starter

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Re: DIGIKEY sold me 8 Years Old electrolytic caps?!?
« Reply #5 on: December 21, 2020, 11:45:15 am »
Sure I can measure them, but then I have 30 years old caps that still measure fine, I wouldn't however use them for repairs, after all, not to forget, these are electrolytic caps, I wouldn't have questioned it otherwise.

And yes, I know how they reform and so on, but again, these are new, paid as for new and I somehow feel something isn't quite right having them that old?
 

Offline ColdPowerTopic starter

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Re: DIGIKEY sold me 8 Years Old electrolytic caps?!?
« Reply #6 on: December 21, 2020, 11:49:45 am »
Here's the actual cap from Digi: https://www.digikey.co.uk/products/en?keywords=P13146-ND

Datasheet mentions shelf life, but only at rated temp?

Thanks everyone.

 

Offline BravoV

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Re: DIGIKEY sold me 8 Years Old electrolytic caps?!?
« Reply #7 on: December 21, 2020, 11:52:07 am »
I guess its kinda moot, as the datasheet it self doesn't mention it clearly, also DK never committed how long they must keep it or how they keep it and never agreed this term to buyer, I guess this will end up debating the period which is acceptable, even the cap is still within spec.

<=6 months ? 12 months or less ? 1-2 years ? 3-5 years ? and so on ...  :-//

Offline TopLoser

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Re: DIGIKEY sold me 8 Years Old electrolytic caps?!?
« Reply #8 on: December 21, 2020, 12:15:30 pm »
They were discontinued in June 2014 so I guess you won't find ANY of that part that aren't less than 5 or 6 years old.

There are alternatives listed, I guess you need to buy those if you want newer parts...
 
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Offline ColdPowerTopic starter

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Re: DIGIKEY sold me 8 Years Old electrolytic caps?!?
« Reply #9 on: December 21, 2020, 12:27:26 pm »
You're absolutely right, I just didn't expect it possible for big supplier to offer so old stock, so didn't really investigate each part based on possible obsolescence data... silly me  |O
 

Online Jay_Diddy_B

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Re: DIGIKEY sold me 8 Years Old electrolytic caps?!?
« Reply #10 on: December 21, 2020, 12:34:38 pm »
Hi,

On this datasheet:

Link: https://industrial.panasonic.com/cdbs/www-data/pdf/RDF0000/ABA0000C1024.pdf

Which covers the    EEU-EB1J4R7S

I believe that the 'S' means short can.

Panasonic says:





If you are concerned about the leakage current in your application, I would send them back.

I have used electrolytic capacitors, from my own inventory, that are much older than that without issue. I have electrolytic capacitors in test equipment that has sat idle for many years and then powered it up, no issues.

Jay_Diddy_B
« Last Edit: December 21, 2020, 12:38:32 pm by Jay_Diddy_B »
 
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Offline ColdPowerTopic starter

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Re: DIGIKEY sold me 8 Years Old electrolytic caps?!?
« Reply #11 on: December 21, 2020, 12:44:54 pm »
Don't you have the means to test them?

Hate to offend the OP, but people believing in ELNA Silmic are not very likely to believe in measured specs.

 :-DD Love this! Yes, I do have the means to measure and regardless of what I believe, it's more important on occasion what my client believe and want, so...
 

Offline ColdPowerTopic starter

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Re: DIGIKEY sold me 8 Years Old electrolytic caps?!?
« Reply #12 on: December 21, 2020, 12:49:03 pm »
Thanks Jay_Diddy_B, have been looking for that piece of info. I have as well used old caps with no issues, but it wouldn't feel right to use such for clients. It just wouldn't.
 

Online Jay_Diddy_B

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Re: DIGIKEY sold me 8 Years Old electrolytic caps?!?
« Reply #13 on: December 21, 2020, 12:51:33 pm »
Hi,
when I search ELNA Silmic, I find a lot of links to audiophile applications.

[Humour]

If this is an audiophile application,

It would be foolish to measure anything ...

Eight years is barely enough. They should be aged for longer, along with the power cords ...

[Humour\]

Jay_Diddy_B
 

Offline ColdPowerTopic starter

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Re: DIGIKEY sold me 8 Years Old electrolytic caps?!?
« Reply #14 on: December 21, 2020, 01:01:37 pm »
BTW can anyone share knowledge on reading Panasonic date codes - can't seem to find up to date info and they sure didn't follow the YYWW  coding?

Thank you.
 

Online Jay_Diddy_B

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Re: DIGIKEY sold me 8 Years Old electrolytic caps?!?
« Reply #15 on: December 21, 2020, 01:13:35 pm »
Hi,

Try these methods:





Jay_Diddy_B
 
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Offline exe

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Re: DIGIKEY sold me 8 Years Old electrolytic caps?!?
« Reply #16 on: December 21, 2020, 01:21:50 pm »
Can you please post pictures and tell how you calculated their age?
 

Offline ColdPowerTopic starter

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Re: DIGIKEY sold me 8 Years Old electrolytic caps?!?
« Reply #17 on: December 21, 2020, 01:51:08 pm »
Can you please post pictures and tell how you calculated their age?

By Digi-key's own repack label, dated 2013. I'll try decipher the date codes as well.
 
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Offline ColdPowerTopic starter

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Re: DIGIKEY sold me 8 Years Old electrolytic caps?!?
« Reply #18 on: December 21, 2020, 02:08:59 pm »
Okay, so if above date code table is correct, they may even be older! Codes as follows:

1NFR - the ones in question that just arrived last week.
22FJ - same caps I ordered in July this year - seemingly newer than the later delivery  :palm:
 

Offline exe

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Re: DIGIKEY sold me 8 Years Old electrolytic caps?!?
« Reply #19 on: December 21, 2020, 03:39:55 pm »
By Digi-key's own repack label, dated 2013.

To recover costs, you can sell those as vintage parts  :horse:
 

Offline rsjsouza

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Re: DIGIKEY sold me 8 Years Old electrolytic caps?!?
« Reply #20 on: December 21, 2020, 04:07:23 pm »
As a hobbyist purchaser, I also have gotten older capacitors from reputable distributors and they are still working fine. At work, however, I have seen contracts establishing limits to the earliest mfg date of the supply chain, but your account needs to be significant to the manufacturer/distributor.
Vbe - vídeo blog eletrônico http://videos.vbeletronico.com

Oh, the "whys" of the datasheets... The information is there not to be an axiomatic truth, but instead each speck of data must be slowly inhaled while carefully performing a deep search inside oneself to find the true metaphysical sense...
 

Offline Tomorokoshi

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Re: DIGIKEY sold me 8 Years Old electrolytic caps?!?
« Reply #21 on: December 21, 2020, 04:26:50 pm »
Given the parts were listed as an "Obsolete item", it may be worth it to evaluate the parts. Substitution of parts in either repair or a new build can sometimes be an issue depending on how customers track their BOMs, if approvals are involved, etc.

As it happens, a couple years ago I had this situation:
A customer had a malfunction in their system. Visual inspection showed slight expansion of the pressure relief on the Panasonic SMT 47 uF electrolytic on the board. The board was 10 years old. The customer got very concerned and jumped to the conclusion that it was the cause of their issues. The expansion was noted on local examples of similar vintage and date code, and institutional memory verified that it was there from the time of production.

As they were at a remote location, visiting the site was not possible. However, they happened to have an LCR meter available. I made measurements of several boards, both old and new, along with measurements of NOS capacitors of the same vintage, new capacitors of the same part number, and similar parts from other suppliers. I then requested measurements from their board, leaving the part in-circuit.

The measurements from the customer were the same as what I got with all variations of parts. There was no performance change between their board, my examples, my NOS parts, and new parts from both Panasonic and others.

Examples of all the parts were sent to Panasonic in Japan, along with the example circuit board that showed an expanding top. The NOS parts were evaluated, along with the questionable part. All measured very similarly. Their evaluation was that the parts were overheated during the soldering process at the manufacturer. As it happens, we had moved to a different board assembler soon after that initial run due to other quality issues.

I believe the problem at the customer site was tracked down to EMC issues.

 
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Offline jpanhalt

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Re: DIGIKEY sold me 8 Years Old electrolytic caps?!?
« Reply #22 on: December 21, 2020, 08:48:24 pm »
Thank you for identifying the part.  It seems you bought an obsolete part at a very good price compared to current production.

Your first post implies nothing about buying obsolete parts.   The implication  was quite the opposite.
Quote
So, as the title says, I just had some caps delivered last week, and turns out, they're about 7.5-8 years old. I always though electrolytic caps purchased by big suppliers would be no more than a couple of years old, ...

What's you complaint?  Did you not read the "obsolete" part of the description?  What's your motive in trashing DigiKey here rather than dealing with it directly?  Seems more likely you want a freebie.  Maybe DK will do that for you.  Will you then apologize for your mistake in ordering them?  I doubt it.

 
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Offline ColdPowerTopic starter

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Re: DIGIKEY sold me 8 Years Old electrolytic caps?!?
« Reply #23 on: December 21, 2020, 09:24:45 pm »
Thank you for identifying the part.  It seems you bought an obsolete part at a very good price compared to current production.

Your first post implies nothing about buying obsolete parts.   The implication  was quite the opposite.
Quote
So, as the title says, I just had some caps delivered last week, and turns out, they're about 7.5-8 years old. I always though electrolytic caps purchased by big suppliers would be no more than a couple of years old, ...

What's you complaint?  Did you not read the "obsolete" part of the description?  What's your motive in trashing DigiKey here rather than dealing with it directly?  Seems more likely you want a freebie.  Maybe DK will do that for you.  Will you then apologize for your mistake in ordering them?  I doubt it.

Why don't you first read carefully and then figure out who ate your breakfast, as it sure ain't me! If you only woke up this morning to look for arguments, look elsewhere. Will you apologise once you actually read the topic?
 
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Offline jpanhalt

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Re: DIGIKEY sold me 8 Years Old electrolytic caps?!?
« Reply #24 on: December 21, 2020, 09:41:58 pm »
1) I can read.
2) I read your post.
3) I saw no reason for trashing one of the two distributors hobbyists have to deal with.
4) Why didn't you contact DigiKey with your dissatisfaction?

Troll paid by Berkshire Hathaway?
 


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