Do you touch type?

[PlainName]

Dunno what "ANSI layout" is: QWERTY? Dvorak?

Not sure either, but perhaps US standard layout?

Main thing is the ENTER key - ISO is two rows high with 1.5 width on the top row. ANSI is single row, double width.

That means some punctuation has moved, and the left shift key is a different width.

[magic]

I can't say that it has changed my life forever because I hardly even remember life before touch typing.
Must have had too much free time as a teenager.

[PlainName]

I learned to touch-type when I was in junior high school (7th grade, I think).
[...]
So much better than hunt-and-peck.

You and some others seem to think if you didn't learn touch typing then you're hunting and pecking. I didn't learn, but I don't hunt and peck. As said earlier, I haven't looked (and won't) at the keyboard while I type this. Just did the typing test mentioned earlier and with no prep or deep breath got 45wpm, 98% accuracy.

AFAIK (and don't forget I didn't take a course) you use the little tags on the F and J keys for positioning? I don't use those but instead use my little fingers to keep track of the edge of the keyboard. Which is not to say they are there all the time, just touch down when they are expected to be over the edge to confirm they are there. Also, I use a little finger for stuff like shift and control, and ENTER on the right, but otherwise am a 6 finger and 2 thumbs chap.

Number row needs looking at, though. Number pad is always cursor control and doesn't need looking at. Prolly down to game control - always a keyboard, never got on with controllers and pads.

[thm_w]

100wpm is very high, usually no need to type that fast, especially now with so much autocomplete, etc.

You can also try a tented ergonomic keyboard, if you have any sort of pain. These compact "happy hacker" type KBs are terrible for your wrists.

You and some others seem to think if you didn't learn touch typing then you're hunting and pecking. I didn't learn, but I don't hunt and peck. As said earlier, I haven't looked (and won't) at the keyboard while I type this. Just did the typing test mentioned earlier and with no prep or deep breath got 45wpm, 98% accuracy.

It just means you learned on your own and were not taught. Most of us who grew up with a computer in the house did the same.

[Analog Kid]

I learned to touch-type when I was in junior high school (7th grade, I think).
[...]
So much better than hunt-and-peck.

You and some others seem to think if you didn't learn touch typing then you're hunting and pecking. I didn't learn, but I don't hunt and peck. As said earlier, I haven't looked (and won't) at the keyboard while I type this. Just did the typing test mentioned earlier and with no prep or deep breath got 45wpm, 98% accuracy.

So you know how to touch type. Is your point that you didn't take a class to learn it?
Whatever, you obviously know how much better it is than hunt & peck.

[tom66]

I was taught in school, but I don't any more.  I can type fast enough without looking at the keyboard without using true touch typing skills, like finding the home keys and keeping all fingers on the central row.

I can type about 60 WPM without using true touch typing skills.  I did once attain over 100 WPM with some practice... but realistically that's just showing off; not really that useful.

[Analog Kid]

I dunno; sounds like splitting hairs to me.
I don't know the actual definition of touch typing--have to look that up--but to me, if you can type without looking at the keyboard, and use more than just your index fingers, then you're touch typing (or some variation thereof). Regardless of what position you hold your hands in ("Hands up, young man! No slouching!") or whether you use the "home" keys or not.

[tom66]

I dunno; sounds like splitting hairs to me.
I don't know the actual definition of touch typing--have to look that up--but to me, if you can type without looking at the keyboard, and use more than just your index fingers, then you're touch typing (or some variation thereof). Regardless of what position you hold your hands in ("Hands up, young man! No slouching!") or whether you use the "home" keys or not.

Touch typing is home row, fingers move only from home row to touch adjacent keys. You only take your hands off the keyboard for a break, or to move to the numpad/special keys.

Hybrid typing is typing without looking, i.e. not hunt and peck... it's kinda touch typing of a sort, but it's not "true" touch typing.

[SteveThackery]

I dunno; sounds like splitting hairs to me.
I don't know the actual definition of touch typing--have to look that up--but to me, if you can type without looking at the keyboard, and use more than just your index fingers, then you're touch typing (or some variation thereof). Regardless of what position you hold your hands in ("Hands up, young man! No slouching!") or whether you use the "home" keys or not.

Of course, you can define touch-typing however you want. However, when it comes to a professional skill, it is pretty well defined - in terms of where the fingers are placed and which keys they operate*. And, of course, the name implies that it is all done by touch - no looking.

If you've invented your own system whereby you type without looking at the keyboard, well, I guess it counts.

*I have found a variation amongst some "professional" touch-typists: I found someone who was trained to type a 'b' with their left forefinger, unlike the modern way of the right forefinger. Unfortunately it meant that they couldn't use an ergonomic split keyboard.

EDIT: Sorry I made a mess of that. Modern day technique is 'b' with the left forefinger; oldies type 'b' with their right forefinger.

[Analog Kid]

*I have found a variation amongst some "professional" touch-typists: I found someone who was trained to type a 'b' with their left forefinger, unlike the modern way of the right forefinger. Unfortunately it meant that they couldn't use an ergonomic split keyboard.

I type "b" with my left index finger, and "n" with my right.
They're closer.

[IanB]

*I have found a variation amongst some "professional" touch-typists: I found someone who was trained to type a 'b' with their left forefinger, unlike the modern way of the right forefinger. Unfortunately it meant that they couldn't use an ergonomic split keyboard.

Yes, B with left forefinger, N with right forefinger.

ZXCVB with left hand, NM,./ with right hand. Five keys each hand between the two shift keys. Equal balance.

If an 'ergonomic' keyboard had B on the right hand side, it would not be ergonomic. It would be four keys left hand, six keys right hand. But I don't recall seeing such a keyboard.

[brucehoult]

No, I've never formally learned touch-typing, and only use around three fingers on each hand, but don't look at the keyboard at all. I make a few errors, but typing entirely the wrong word is almost as common as typoing a word, so the problem is probably more in the brain than the fingers. Many people who see me typing, or who I'm chatting with online, remark on how quickly I generate text. Nothing compared to a proper copy-typist of course, but pretty much as fast as I can think or talk, so it's enough. I can generally transcribe spoken things (not for too long) from YouTube videos without a lot of pausing or rewinding, although errors need fixing afterwards.

I know a lot of people who touch-type properly who have gotten RSI. I essentially stopped handwriting anything in my 2nd year at university, in 1982, when I got 24 hour access to the 11/70 and VAX and printers. so it's been a lot of typing every day for almost 45 years, and I've never had any problems with my hands. I have no idea whether that's correlation or coincidence.

[brucehoult]

I just tried typing.com test and got 40 wpm with 94 % accuracy. It can probably be improved, but I don't really care that much.

I just tried their 1 minute test and got 43 WPM with 99% accuracy. I actually stumbled and it wasn't taking my input and I had to back up a word at one point, losing several seconds -- I think maybe I'd accidentally moved over one key position and it was totally wrong or something. Dunno. Without that I guess it would have been a couple of WPM higher.

Anyway, yeah, I don't care to put in effort to do better. It's good enough for my purposes.

[brucehoult]

My all-time favorite keyboard is still that original IBM PC one: you know, the cream-ish colored one with the super-clicky keys that you really had to push down. Almost like a manual typewriter.

I have a large box of 1980s IBM PC/AT and Apple Extended ("Saratoga") keyboards. But they all have obsolete interfaces. I guess the PC/AT ones are easier to interface to USB these days, possibly DIY with a $0.20 CH32V003 microcontroller running a software bit-banged USB stack [1] :-) Or a $0.40 CH32V203 has built in USB.

ADB probably isn't that hard to do with a microcontroller either [2].

I've actually for some years now standardised on the Microsoft 850 wireless (USB dongle) keyboard and mouse set. Decent quality, ergonomic enough for me (I especially like the mouse), cheap enough at around $35, available everywhere, and works with no drivers on any computer or SBC. Eats the AAA mouse battery in just a few months, but the two in the keyboard seem to last forever.

[1] https://github.com/cnlohr/rv003usb

[2] https://github.com/gblargg/adb-usb

[CatalinaWOW]

OG touch typists left hand left the keys every row to hit the carriage return bar.

A secretary at a place I worked during high school typed well over 100 wpm on a manual typewriter.  It was amazing to listen to the steady ding, ding, ding of the bell.  A new line about every 11 seconds.

[Analog Kid]

A secretary at a place I worked during high school typed well over 100 wpm on a manual typewriter.  It was amazing to listen to the steady ding, ding, ding of the bell.  A new line about every 11 seconds.

Think of what she could do with a good electric typewriter! dingdingdingdingding ...

[PlainName]

I learned to touch-type when I was in junior high school (7th grade, I think).
[...]
So much better than hunt-and-peck.

You and some others seem to think if you didn't learn touch typing then you're hunting and pecking. I didn't learn, but I don't hunt and peck. As said earlier, I haven't looked (and won't) at the keyboard while I type this. Just did the typing test mentioned earlier and with no prep or deep breath got 45wpm, 98% accuracy.

So you know how to touch type. Is your point that you didn't take a class to learn it?

Yes, didn't take a class, read a book, nothing. Don't know how I learned other than by osmosis.

[PlainName]

What I want to know is how the 2-thumbers on a phone manage such a high speed. If there were a course for that I might well take it 

[Psi]

I touch type, as in 99.9% of the time I'm not look at the keyboard, but I never learned it, it just kind of just evolved naturally as i looked at the keyboard less and less.
I think coding for fun at a young age was a driving factor.

I do look at the keyboard sometimes if I have to press a key that I don't normally press, like Function keys F7 and above.
I also sometimes take a guess at the right key and press that, then try again if wrong. However that isn't always a good idea depending what I'm doing and what the wrong key might do. Which is why some function keys can be a bit risky to press without looking, unless your sure.
I press F2 a lot for rename so that gives me F1 and F3 next to it without looking, and i press F5 a lot for refresh, which gives me F4 and F6
But F7 and above i really don't use enough to know where they are to a high degree.

[Psi]

If you want to see how you compare to others and improve your touch typing, play Type Racer https://play.typeracer.com/

[SteveThackery]

*I have found a variation amongst some "professional" touch-typists: I found someone who was trained to type a 'b' with their left forefinger, unlike the modern way of the right forefinger. Unfortunately it meant that they couldn't use an ergonomic split keyboard.

Yes, B with left forefinger, N with right forefinger.

ZXCVB with left hand, NM,./ with right hand. Five keys each hand between the two shift keys. Equal balance.

If an 'ergonomic' keyboard had B on the right hand side, it would not be ergonomic. It would be four keys left hand, six keys right hand. But I don't recall seeing such a keyboard.

Oh, damn! I'm sorry - I messed up. But check these out: one is the split on-screen keyboard on my tablet, and the other is a Microsoft ergonomic keyboard.

[SteveThackery]

I remember now. In modern touch typing, you are definitely taught to use the left forefinger for 'b'. People who learned several decades ago were taught to use the right forefinger. The left forefinger makes more sense:

z  x  c  v  b      n  m  ,  .  /

Five keys each.

[tom66]

Not touch typing, just my normal hybrid method, but was trying harder than normal.  It's surprisingly hard to copy exact text -- when I saw hyphens, I tried substituting each for spaces, and the American spelling on some words tripped me up.

[PlainName]

That's not to be sniffed at!

[NE666]

Touch typing is well defined, both in terms of what it is mechanically (the use of muscle memory alone) and, commercially, the WPM that a practitioner was expected to achieve.

However, it's become almost irrelevant over time. The days of the need to transcribe large amounts of spoken and written text, and with them typing pools, are all but gone. 100+ wpm aren't important for tasks like programming, since you're not thinking at that speed. Besides, in that specific discipline it's the amount of code that you don't write which is really a mark of your mastery. I assume that the same holds true for most, if not all, 'creative' (rather than simple duplication) tasks.

My approach of the last couple of years, and one which has worked well for me, is to 'cheat'. By which I mean, adapt the keyboard itself to minimise finger and wrist movement over the keyboard for the character set that I use most frequently.

I bought an Ergodox EZ keyboard, and changed the key functionality to suit my particular preferred workflow and methods, which are then quite removed from 'real' touch typing on a Qwerty layout. For example, I no longer use a shift key. Capitals are made by holding the relevant character down for slightly longer than I would for regular, lower case. Brackets of all types are made by double-tapping corresponding keys in the middle row. Other characters that I use regularly in programming, such as the hash and the dollar are programmed to appear on 'spare' keys within easy reach of the middle or bottom row, and hence I avoid the need for shift.

I'm not going to evangelise  it, but for me, it's greatly increased the rate at which I can output code, and at a later time in my life in which I expected to be a lot less plastic in terms of new muscle memory.