DRM in your light bulb!

[engineer_in_shorts]

Thought i might drop this here:
https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20151214/07452133070/lightbulb-drm-philips-locks-purchasers-out-third-party-bulbs-with-firmware-update.shtml

Feel free to move to another section that may be more relevant.

[SeanB]

You know, a bog standard switch is starting to look like a really good option. Not that the Hue lamps are really low power when off, unlike the reasl physical switch, which is a true ZERO power option when off.

[Halcyon]

I mentioned this in another thread, and I'll repeat it here...

A smart home doesn't need to be full of gimmicky gadgets linked to smart phone applications, linked to the internet etc... The technology in a truly smart home just needs to be well thought out and implemented.

For example, I recently moved into a new home. I thought about the "I can turn room lights on before I step into my dark house" issue and the answer is easily a yes: I installed motion sensors so as I drive into the driveway/garage, lights turn on. I also opted to use light switches throughout the house which glow dimly so they can easily be located in a pitch black room. No fancy tech needed and no need for me to get out my phone and piss about with some application...

...I guess my point is not everything has to be "smart" and not everything has to have an "app".

[Someone]

You know, a bog standard switch is starting to look like a really good option. Not that the Hue lamps are really low power when off, unlike the reasl physical switch, which is a true ZERO power option when off.

A wise engineer reminded me that there is no zero when measuring these sorts of things, you might have a few teraohms of impedance in the open position at DC if the switch assembly is clean and there will be several tens of picofarads coupling for the AC. Still a huge improvement over the alternative

[skipjackrc4]

...I guess my point is not everything has to be "smart" and not everything has to have an "app".

Words can't express how much I agree with you.

[madires]

If you're smart you'll keep your home dumb 

My light switches work fine without any cloud based service, without internet and without a smart phone or tablet. The user interface is very intuitive and the switches are quite secure since you need physical access. KISS!

[Stonent]

...I guess my point is not everything has to be "smart" and not everything has to have an "app".

Words can't express how much I agree with you.

There's no app for my hamburger?!?!

[Halcyon]

...I guess my point is not everything has to be "smart" and not everything has to have an "app".

Words can't express how much I agree with you.

I even hate the term "app". It's APPLICATION people! The population is getting dumber and shit like this isn't helping.

[SL4P]

At the risk of dragging this thread off topic, I had this exact conversation with my mechanic yesterday,

It's odd that passionate engineers should be the ones putting the brakes on 'technology for the sake of technology!'

I start asking when the nexus of efficiency, cost cutting, recalls, updates and feature complexity will converge to the point when manufacturers have to pay us to take their products!

#BackToBicycles

[SeanB]

You know, a bog standard switch is starting to look like a really good option. Not that the Hue lamps are really low power when off, unlike the reasl physical switch, which is a true ZERO power option when off.

A wise engineer reminded me that there is no zero when measuring these sorts of things, you might have a few teraohms of impedance in the open position at DC if the switch assembly is clean and there will be several tens of picofarads coupling for the AC. Still a huge improvement over the alternative

Zero power as measured on the AC wattmeter on the incoming feed to the house is the goal. A small capacitive current with a near 90 degree phase angle does not register at all. You might be able to drive a very low output high efficiency LED off it and not have it measure power use, but the light output would be below the light output of a glow worm.

[Brumby]

I even hate the term "app". It's APPLICATION people!

I hear you.

[amyk]

If you're smart you'll keep your home dumb 

My light switches work fine without any cloud based service, without internet and without a smart phone or tablet. The user interface is very intuitive and the switches are quite secure since you need physical access. KISS!

Why does a lightbulb need firmware anyway? This is a wholly ridiculous concept. 10+ years ago I remember joking about it, and now it's actually become reality.

[Kjelt]

Why does a lightbulb need firmware anyway? This is a wholly ridiculous concept. 10+ years ago I remember joking about it, and now it's actually become reality.

Why does a car need firmware, why do we need computers, why do you want to control things at home? Comfort!

Lighting systems are being connected, has been going on for over 20 years now and it is finally reaching the home.
What is stupid is controlling multiple lightbulbs with a mains dimmer, lots of EMC issues and flickering, while modern lights (led) are DC powered and can be perfectly controlled and dimmed individually by the lamp driver itself.
Connecting it to the internet is a step to far personnally but for your homenetwork controlling your lighting activating when there is motion etc. could be a huge energy safer and comfort booster.

[Ian.M]

Its still stupid putting too much 'smarts' in a mains bulb.   Its also rather un-green, and benefits no-one except the light bulb manufacturers and their component suppliers.

The power supply electronics of a mains voltage LED bulb leads rather a hard life, premature failure is not unusual, and the light output of the LEDs themselves degrades with total usage time.  Other types of bulb also have lifespan limits.   The place to put the 'smarts' is in the socket, not the bulb.  Existing sockets that cant be easily replaced can be retrofitted with an adapter.

Then you have to consider future-proofing.  The working life of a lighting system is likely to be in excess of 20 years.  If it doesn't use a well documented open protocol, then getting spares will become very difficult.   I would suggest DMX512 over <whatever> transport layer.  Ethernet, wireless and powerline DMX512 bridges are already available.   

[madires]

... after customers complaining about the new firmware Philips has withdrawn the update. 

[Brumby]

Other than not doing it in the first place, that was the only sensible thing to do - otherwise the result would be simple: People will stop buying the Philips product.

The study topic is "How to shoot yourself in the foot in one easy lesson".

[PA0PBZ]

... after customers complaining about the new firmware Philips has withdrawn the update. 

"We recently upgraded the software for Philips Hue to ensure the best seamless connected lighting experience for our customers. This change was made in good faith. However, we under estimated the impact this would have on a small number of customers who use lights from other brands which could not be controlled by the Philips Hue software. In view of the sentiment expressed by our customers, we have decided to reverse the software upgrade so that lights from other brands continue to work as they did before with the Philips Hue system."

http://www.developers.meethue.com/documentation/friends-hue-update

[tszaboo]

So, because smart home control is an emerging market, and no-one offers standard solution for all tasks, the good solution is to provide APIs, gateways and open-source everything that you can. So others can contol your system and synergy  .
Philips decided that they are not smart.

[free_electron]

3 million transistors, an operating system and 5 million lines of code, and ,maybe, if all goes well, and they let you ,  you can turn on the led   

[Kjelt]

3 million transistors, an operating system and 5 million lines of code, and ,maybe, if all goes well, and they let you ,  you can turn on the led   

Thats exaggerated, besides you are in these smart cars, how many billion LOCs are there in your supercar just to drive a car?
And how many lines are allowed to fail so you are NOT able to drive the car. Go figure. 

[Kjelt]

Its still stupid putting too much 'smarts' in a mains bulb.   Its also rather un-green, and benefits no-one except the light bulb manufacturers and their component suppliers.

Go tell the customers to drop all their mains based lighting fixtures and go for the led fixtures best centrally controlled by a DC system.
Unfortunately the real world is that customers do not want to change anything (not even their fixtures) and just replace the mains bulb for a mains led bulb which indeed is not what is really needed to make the transition. New buildings, new homes are the place where the new systems end up in. The rest is retro 

[free_electron]

3 million transistors, an operating system and 5 million lines of code, and ,maybe, if all goes well, and they let you ,  you can turn on the led   

Thats exaggerated, besides you are in these smart cars, how many billion LOCs are there in your supercar just to drive a car?
And how many lines are allowed to fail so you are NOT able to drive the car. Go figure. 

a car is not a lightbulb ...

[aon]

Then you have to consider future-proofing.  The working life of a lighting system is likely to be in excess of 20 years.  If it doesn't use a well documented open protocol, then getting spares will become very difficult.   I would suggest DMX512 over <whatever> transport layer.  Ethernet, wireless and powerline DMX512 bridges are already available.   

DALI is a pretty commonly agreed-upon protocol for talking to light fittings. Doesn't work over existing wires though but nothing good ever does

[edpalmer42]

The FAIL in this mess is that

• Someone at Philips thought of the idea.
• The idea made it through their entire corporate process without being killed.
• The idea was inflicted upon the public.

The fact that they backed off just proves how absolutely clueless they are.

Ed

[timb]

...I guess my point is not everything has to be "smart" and not everything has to have an "app".

Words can't express how much I agree with you.

I even hate the term "app". It's APPLICATION people! The population is getting dumber and shit like this isn't helping.

It's called an App because Mac OS X has always used the extension .app for the application bundles. This carried over into iOS.

OS X users have always called them Apps, at least since 2001 when I started with OS X. So, it's nothing new. It's just become more widespread since the iPhone and App Store took off.

Technically, people shouldn't refer to applications for Android and Windows Phone Mobile 10 CE as Apps, but it's become a generic name, so what the hell.

Anyway, is it really that big of a deal to say App instead of Application? App flows a lot better in conversation (single syllable instead of four) and is much easier to write. We all know that it's short for Application, so what's the big deal? Do you go around calling .exe files "executables" as well?