Author Topic: DS1052E Up to 150Mhz  (Read 53122 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline dimlow

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 301
  • Country: gb
  • Likes to be thought of as
    • Dimlow Ponders
DS1052E Up to 150Mhz
« on: October 11, 2010, 04:03:11 am »
Found this scope on the net http://www.hb17.net/product.asp?id=3040, its 150Mhz, changed my Model Number to DS1152E and now it seems to be a 150Mhz scope! I dont have the equipment to test if it atually works but my timebase is now down to 2ns as with the 100Mhz. I recalibrated the scope and it looks like i see more detail in the waveforms.

Others/Dave need to try this.
 

Offline dimlow

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 301
  • Country: gb
  • Likes to be thought of as
    • Dimlow Ponders
Re: DS1052E Up to 150Mhz
« Reply #1 on: October 11, 2010, 04:38:55 am »
Yea, link seems dead here to strange worked a while ago. No I never learn from lessons. Anyway just search for DS1152E its a Chinese site but has specs you can read, i used google to translate. Upgrade procedure is the same as before.
 

Offline dimlow

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 301
  • Country: gb
  • Likes to be thought of as
    • Dimlow Ponders
Re: DS1052E Up to 150Mhz
« Reply #2 on: October 11, 2010, 04:41:54 am »
@Shafri What time is it there ? are you a fellow insomniac  ?

I seem to be getting more wobbly bits now
« Last Edit: October 11, 2010, 05:00:31 am by dimlow »
 

Offline rossmoffett

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 234
  • Country: us
Re: DS1052E Up to 150Mhz
« Reply #3 on: October 11, 2010, 05:38:31 am »
Found this scope on the net http://www.hb17.net/product.asp?id=3040, its 150Mhz, changed my Model Number to DS1152E and now it seems to be a 150Mhz scope! I dont have the equipment to test if it atually works but my timebase is now down to 2ns as with the 100Mhz. I recalibrated the scope and it looks like i see more detail in the waveforms.

Others/Dave need to try this.

I get an error at that site, but 150 MHz is consistent with what I got when I removed the filter entirely with a hardware mod.  I actually measured the tipping point at around 140 MHz.  It's a little tricky to interpret that data, and I'm not entirely sure of it, but I'm pretty sure the indication there is that I had a 140 MHz bandwidth.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=30.msg2059#msg2059

As I recall the datasheets for the hardware indicated that the weakest link was at around 150 MHz bandwidth too.

Please note that this was posted before I fully understood the filter, the schematic is incorrect.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2010, 05:41:41 am by rossmoffett »
ArcAttack - A group of musical Tesla coil performers with semi-regular blog updates.
 

Offline dimlow

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 301
  • Country: gb
  • Likes to be thought of as
    • Dimlow Ponders
Re: DS1052E Up to 150Mhz
« Reply #4 on: October 11, 2010, 10:06:36 am »
Ok Downgraded and done some test,Not sure now if it did work there does seem to be a small change in the trace from DS1102E to DS1152E, but nothing much, maybe i need to change the serial too.

The scope was set to factory default

Model Changed to DS1052E

Model Changed to DS1102E

Model Changed to DS1152E

« Last Edit: October 11, 2010, 10:10:50 am by dimlow »
 

Offline scrat

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 606
  • Country: it
Re: DS1052E Up to 150Mhz
« Reply #5 on: October 11, 2010, 10:09:54 am »
Someone already spoke about a 1152E/D model...
Search for "1152E" here: http://www.eevblog.com/2009/04/05/full-review-of-the-rigol-ds1052e/.
However, the link posted there doesn't take to anything about 1152E...
One machine can do the work of fifty ordinary men. No machine can do the work of one extraordinary man. - Elbert Hubbard
 

Offline dimlow

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 301
  • Country: gb
  • Likes to be thought of as
    • Dimlow Ponders
Re: DS1052E Up to 150Mhz
« Reply #6 on: October 11, 2010, 10:24:31 am »
When i animate these three pics i get this.

Also when i measure the rise time on my 400Mhz scope it tells me its 2.2ns
« Last Edit: October 11, 2010, 10:27:09 am by dimlow »
 

alm

  • Guest
Re: DS1052E Up to 150Mhz
« Reply #7 on: October 11, 2010, 10:41:25 am »
Not sure if the difference between 100MHz and '150MHz' is large enough to be significant. The amplitude of the '150MHz' picture also seems slightly smaller. A Gaussian scope with 150MHz bandwidth should have a rise time of 2.3ns, so a 2.2ns pulse is not really fast enough to test it. I would also verify aberrations / bandwidth flatness to see if it's really flat(ish) up to the 150MHz -3dB point, and check if the attenuator is actually linear at this frequency. I suspect the attenuator is not even linear to 100MHz, but I've not been able to verify this in person.

It seems really suspicious to sell a machine that can do 150MHz but not offer a 150MHz model for sale, suggests that they're not confident that it can actually reliably do 150MHz. It's hard to argue that they designed it for 150MHz and use identical parts for lower model to save costs if they don't sell a 150MHz version. If the ADC circuit was designed for 100MHz bandwidth, you might see more aliasing.
 

Offline dimlow

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 301
  • Country: gb
  • Likes to be thought of as
    • Dimlow Ponders
Re: DS1052E Up to 150Mhz
« Reply #8 on: October 11, 2010, 10:56:52 am »
I think its time for me to hand it over to someone else that

A. Really knows what they are talking about.
B. Has better testing equipment.

Edit.. the rise time measured on my 400Mhz scope is 2.82ns (typo), i guess thats not fast enough at all.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2010, 11:01:58 am by dimlow »
 

Offline Polossatik

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 286
  • Country: be
Re: DS1052E Up to 150Mhz
« Reply #9 on: October 12, 2010, 12:09:44 am »
Yea, link seems dead here to strange worked a while ago. No I never learn from lessons. Anyway just search for DS1152E its a Chinese site but has specs you can read, i used google to translate. Upgrade procedure is the same as before.

The link is http://www.hb17.net/product.asp?id=3040
without a , at the end :)
Real Circuit design time in minutes= (2 + Nscopes) Testim + (40 +120 Kbrewski) Nfriends

Testim = estimated time in minutes Nscopes= number of oscilloscopes present Kbrewski = linear approx of the nonlinear beer effect Nfriends = number of circuit design friends present
 

Offline rossmoffett

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 234
  • Country: us
Re: DS1052E Up to 150Mhz
« Reply #10 on: October 12, 2010, 02:27:45 am »
so what does this whole thing mean? do we have to do both soft mod AND hard mod?

I just looked back at that thread again, specifically here, and I don't think the hardware mod can do anything to bring bandwidth up to 150 MHz.  There's nothing about those control signals that would make the bandwidth any higher, so if there is indeed any change it is not in the same section that affected the 50/100 MHz mod.
ArcAttack - A group of musical Tesla coil performers with semi-regular blog updates.
 

Offline gandalfg8

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 13
Re: DS1052E Up to 150Mhz
« Reply #11 on: January 03, 2011, 01:20:45 am »
Upgrade procedure is the same as before.
so the model -> DS1152E. What about serial? the 5th character -> A,B,C,D,E,Z?


Anyone feeling adventurous?:-)

 

Offline tyblu

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 287
  • Country: 00
    • blog.tyblu.ca
Re: DS1052E Up to 150Mhz
« Reply #12 on: January 04, 2011, 02:19:07 am »
I believe there are ten 40MHz ADCs clocked at 100MHz, giving 1GS/s, limiting ADC conversions to 500MHz. The limiting factors would be the analog front end (probes, attenuator and amplifier), clock jitter, and trigger noise. The analog front end is likely the largest contributor, though trigger noise would be close, especially for averaging periodic signals (like a sampling 'scope). Why do I mention this? The program may spit out values at 150MHz, but there is likely little gain. In fact, the DSP algorithms (decimation and resampling or cardinal spans) may be compromised due to lack of previous antialiasing. Be careful!

Would love to see someone characterize the [isolated] inputs with a 1GHz+ VNA.
Tyler Lucas, electronics hobbyist
 

Offline saturation

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4788
  • Country: us
  • Doveryai, no proveryai
    • NIST
Re: DS1052E Up to 150Mhz
« Reply #13 on: February 15, 2011, 12:37:07 pm »
Exellent find, tinhead!

Via google translate:

http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fdrieg.sweb.cz%2Frigol%2Fupg.html&sl=cs&tl=en&hl=&ie=UTF-8

Seems like the guy is offering to do "upgrades" as a service, and he seems to be a Czech Rigol dealer, and after the upgrade you still have a factory warranty?  Converting Czech korona to dollars, the price is fairly high over there.


The 150Mhz seems to work, but more interessting that even the new DS1062CA seems to be still hackable.

These guys have hacked it to 300Mhz model:

http://drieg.sweb.cz/rigol/upg.html

It would be interessting to see whats inside the CA series.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2011, 12:45:54 pm by saturation »
Best Wishes,

 Saturation
 

Offline tinhead

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1901
  • Country: 00
    • If you like my hacks, send me a donation
Re: DS1052E Up to 150Mhz
« Reply #14 on: February 15, 2011, 03:49:32 pm »
well, actually Rigol DS1062CA costs 18 990 K?, that's 782EUR or 1056USD. If you compare to goodluckbuy you saving already 200USD
and you will get the information (probably for free if you buy there) how to hack it to 300MHz.

I don't want to be human! I want to see gamma rays, I want to hear X-rays, and I want to smell dark matter ...
I want to reach out with something other than these prehensile paws and feel the solar wind of a supernova flowing over me.
 

Offline saturation

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4788
  • Country: us
  • Doveryai, no proveryai
    • NIST
Re: DS1052E Up to 150Mhz
« Reply #15 on: February 15, 2011, 04:46:49 pm »
Yes, that's a good price relative to $US, much better scope in terms of sampling and memory.  But, I was looking at the 1000E series, e.g. 1052E, a 11,290 K ~ $625.  Plus 2000K for the hack, if you want him to do it, pretty pricey in the end.  I guess, he is trying to sell the CA series more.

http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&sl=cs&tl=en&u=http://drieg.sweb.cz/rigol/ds1052e.html&rurl=translate.google.com&twu=1&usg=ALkJrhhCIDjDBfeY0zkBZAfbRcM3JTK1eA



well, actually Rigol DS1062CA costs 18 990 K?, that's 782EUR or 1056USD. If you compare to goodluckbuy you saving already 200USD
and you will get the information (probably for free if you buy there) how to hack it to 300MHz.


Best Wishes,

 Saturation
 

Offline AlphZeta

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 244
  • Country: us
    • Kerry D. Wong
Re: DS1052E Up to 150Mhz
« Reply #16 on: February 15, 2011, 04:55:33 pm »
From the link I am wondering if it is the same "Drieg" that helped a lot of folks on the forum...
 

Offline saturation

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4788
  • Country: us
  • Doveryai, no proveryai
    • NIST
Re: DS1052E Up to 150Mhz
« Reply #17 on: February 15, 2011, 06:48:21 pm »
If it is, drieg deserves our praise; I think he's the only one on this forum, probably online, who has found a quick way to repair bricked Rigol 1052Es.  It also suggests he is the best person to do 'upgrades' with lowest chance of bricking, even as Rigol brings out new firmware.

From the link I am wondering if it is the same "Drieg" that helped a lot of folks on the forum...
Best Wishes,

 Saturation
 

Offline Regnirps

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 9
Re: DS1052E Up to 150Mhz
« Reply #18 on: February 16, 2011, 07:47:23 am »
From the table of equivalents posted earlier,
If you buy from china:
Hantek DSO5202M = Tekway DST1202B = Protek 3210
Hantek DSO5102M = Tekway DST1102B = Protek 3110
Hantek DSO5062M = Tekway DST1062B

This morning in Shanghai the Hantek DSO5102M can be found for 2800 RMB and the Tekway DST1102B for 3300 RMB. Are you sure they are the same? I'd rather not get both. I can call someone in Shenzhen to check the discounters in the SEG building.
 

Offline tinhead

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1901
  • Country: 00
    • If you like my hacks, send me a donation
Re: DS1052E Up to 150Mhz
« Reply #19 on: February 16, 2011, 11:47:43 am »
This morning in Shanghai the Hantek DSO5102M can be found for 2800 RMB and the Tekway DST1102B for 3300 RMB.
Are you sure they are the same?

dude, this is wrong thread and yes they are the same (be careful, Hantek M not N)
I don't want to be human! I want to see gamma rays, I want to hear X-rays, and I want to smell dark matter ...
I want to reach out with something other than these prehensile paws and feel the solar wind of a supernova flowing over me.
 

Offline Simon

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 13566
  • Country: gb
  • Did that just blow up? No? might work after all !!
    • Simon's Electronics
Re: DS1052E Up to 150Mhz
« Reply #20 on: February 18, 2011, 07:50:07 am »
this is pretty amazing, the scope I bought for £239 and got a £50 discount on can do 150 MHz - WOW, wow.

Time to go looking for my RS232 cable. let us know as soon as you have something certain chaps, I'm getting that exited feeling again  ;D
https://www.simonselectronics.co.uk/shop
Varied stock of test instruments and components including EEVblog gear and Wurth Elektronik Books.
Also, if you want to get ripped off: https://www.ebay.co.uk/usr/simons_electronics?_trksid=p2047675.l2559
 

Offline dimlow

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 301
  • Country: gb
  • Likes to be thought of as
    • Dimlow Ponders
Re: DS1052E Up to 150Mhz
« Reply #21 on: February 18, 2011, 10:05:30 am »
You lot have taken your time with this, i have had the scope at 150Mhz for ages now, its does work!
 

Offline ElektroQuark

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 1215
  • Country: es
    • ElektroQuark
Re: DS1052E Up to 150Mhz
« Reply #22 on: February 18, 2011, 03:33:31 pm »
Firmware and detailed instructions?
Thanks.  ;)

Offline Simon

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 13566
  • Country: gb
  • Did that just blow up? No? might work after all !!
    • Simon's Electronics
Re: DS1052E Up to 150Mhz
« Reply #23 on: February 18, 2011, 03:49:43 pm »
yea, lay your cards on the table or stop bragging  ;D

To be honest who would think they could do 150MHz ? I mean they only went up to a 100MHz model. Maybe the 150MHz version was planned but never came to light. of course we also need to remember that at 100 MHz with 1GS/s (on one channel only) that's the ideal min of 10 samples per waveform, at 150MHz that's 6.7 samples per wave, although still fine on repetitive stuff
https://www.simonselectronics.co.uk/shop
Varied stock of test instruments and components including EEVblog gear and Wurth Elektronik Books.
Also, if you want to get ripped off: https://www.ebay.co.uk/usr/simons_electronics?_trksid=p2047675.l2559
 

Offline tinhead

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1901
  • Country: 00
    • If you like my hacks, send me a donation
Re: DS1052E Up to 150Mhz
« Reply #24 on: February 18, 2011, 04:07:56 pm »
of course we also need to remember that at 100 MHz with 1GS/s (on one channel only) that's the ideal min of 10 samples per waveform, at 150MHz that's 6.7 samples per wave, although still fine on repetitive stuff

you can get easily higher than this, 5 samples per wave is common value giving of on single chan up to 200MHz and dual chan 100MHz.
Rigol maybe never did it because of planned and now available 2GSs models, or maybe because the DSP was too slow to handle proper
the data (you remember the two chans bug - running with long mem and 100MHz).
I don't want to be human! I want to see gamma rays, I want to hear X-rays, and I want to smell dark matter ...
I want to reach out with something other than these prehensile paws and feel the solar wind of a supernova flowing over me.
 


Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf