Ebay -PayPal +Adyen: what does it mean for private sellers?

[tggzzz]

I've just noticed that Ebay is changing from PayPal to Ayden. This was announced in 2018, resurfaced in February 2020, and I believe it is beginning to be rolled out.

Ebay has the usual "it will be a better experience" statements, without spelling out all the actual differences. Searching ebay's help page for ayden adyen returns several pages, none of which mention ayden adyen, doh!

I've done a quick search for ebay and ayden adyen. There are mutterings about being paid directly to your bank account, having to provide extra detailed financial information, problems with matching ebay names and bank account names, not understanding how this will work for occasional private sellers, etc. But I haven't found anything I regard as solid information.

So, if someone can point me to a high quality statement, I'd be grateful.

[MK14]

Ebay has the usual "it will be a better experience" statements, without spelling out all the actual differences.

Thanks for bringing it to my/our attention, I will keep an eye on the situation.

Their announcement, sounds a bit like when a food product, you've bought for years, and really enjoyed.
Suddenly says on it "New, improved recipe and flavour. 17.93% better than before".

Which means, translated into English. We have replaced the nice, healthy flavoursome old recipe, with much cheaper and nastier ingredients. Which tastes significantly worse than the old recipe. You then are somewhat forced to find an alternative.

By the way, it is spelt, 'Adyen', apparently.

More info:
https://www.which.co.uk/news/2018/02/ebay-to-replace-paypal-with-adyen-what-it-means-for-you/

My searches and reading up on it (only a very rough and ready indication). Is that people, seem to be quietly/cautiously pleased/welcoming it, by a tiny/small nudge, and/or they don't mind too much.
N.B. Only by a tiny/modest amount, and only an early indication.

[tggzzz]

By the way, it is spelt, 'Adyen', apparently.

Doh!. Subject title changed. Still get zero relevant results in fleabays "help" system.

More info:
https://www.which.co.uk/news/2018/02/ebay-to-replace-paypal-with-adyen-what-it-means-for-you/

That was the best I found, but it is from 2018 and is little more than a rehash of the fleabay press release. Which? does that too much now

[Ed.Kloonk]

From the linked article..

However, PayPal could cease to be an option from July 2023, when its agreement with Ebay runs out.

So Paypal will still be there, but it can only become more shit as we go forward. I wouldn't have ever thought that Paypal could become even more shit but there you go!

And Paypal can go eat a bag of dicks because they no longer are replacing their auth footballs and sun-setting those with them. 

[magic]

For a buyer, it means I might consider starting using eBay

Maybe, if that new thing is any better

[golden_labels]

Adyen seems like a proper payments processor instead of being a digital wallet with a credit/debit card option. So from buyer’s point of view it may be a gain.

For the occassional seller? PayPal is sending money to your account by wire transfer and I doubt Adyen will need more data for that than PayPal does. Keep in mind that it is determined not by what Adyen wants, but by what they are required to do by laws enacted against money laundering.

A larger concern may be eBay moving away from being a platform for non-commercial sellers. This is a transition their counterpart in Poland is undergoing right now. eBay is already a horrible place, but with a bit of dishonesthy one can bear it. But there is still a lot of possibilities to become even worse.

[andy2000]

Ebay is calling it "managed payments" now.  I have signed up, but the change hasn't happened for me yet.  You can tell that some sellers are already using it because the payment process is a little different. 

Since Paypal stopped refunding the fees when I refund a payment, I'm not necessarily against moving away from Paypal.  It's bad enough having to give a refund, but having to eat 3% makes it even worse. 

[tggzzz]

Are you a private seller or a business seller?

What happened during the sign up process? E.g.information required etc.

[andy2000]

Are you a private seller or a business seller?

What happened during the sign up process? E.g.information required etc.

It was about like signing up for Paypal.  They needed banking info and a social security number (presumably so they can send me a 1099-k).  So far I have no idea how, or when the change will happen. 

[tggzzz]

Are you a private seller or a business seller?

What happened during the sign up process? E.g.information required etc.

It was about like signing up for Paypal.  They needed banking info and a social security number (presumably so they can send me a 1099-k).  So far I have no idea how, or when the change will happen.

Banking info, social security number? Excellent targets for organised crime

Naturally they will say "security is our prime concern", just as Experian (etc etc) did/do.

[tggzzz]

Noodling around for information isn't encouraging. Note that the excerpts below may well be incorrect; getting better information is the point of this thread!

From January 2020, many links at https://www.auctionnudge.com/guides/adyen-ebay-managed-payments/

"Sellers are required to comply with the managed payments transition to continue selling on eBay. Registration for managed payments will require identity verification, bank account details and business information" https://www.auctionnudge.com/guides/adyen-ebay-managed-payments/

"Other concerns about managed payments include: The risk of another major data breach, this time with payment processing details. Anticipation that eBay will ask sellers to ship items before receiving funds" https://www.auctionnudge.com/guides/adyen-ebay-managed-payments/
Given I've had a couple of non-payers recently, that's unacceptable to me.
Given the access to my bank account details (rather than credit card details which give me significant legal protection), the possibility of a data breach is unacceptable to me.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-27539799

"While I was doing my research to write this post I noticed many people asked about monthly fees and found that Adyen does charge a minimum invoice of €100 ($120 U.S.) per month, depending on transaction volume and region." https://crazylister.com/blog/adyen-payments-ebay/
No. Full stop!

"To enable payments in their eBay accounts, sellers should expect to provide eBay with some additional payments-related data and transition to a new relationship with eBay that includes integrated payments capabilities. Sellers will be required to complete these steps in order to continue selling on eBay, and it is anticipated that this transition for sellers will occur no later than one year after the expiration of eBay’s Operating Agreement with PayPal, i.e., by July 2021." https://www.ebayinc.com/stories/news/ebay-to-intermediate-payments-on-its-marketplace-platform/

"Do I need a bank account to receive payouts? Yes, payouts are sent directly to your bank account when eBay manages payments. During the registration process you can choose to add any checking account - whether existing or new. Does managed payments support direct deposit accounts? No, sellers enabled for managed payments can only link a checking account to receive their payouts." https://pages.ebay.com/seller-center/service-and-payments/managed-payments-on-ebay.html

"For your convenience, the costs of refunds, eBay Money Back Guarantee and payment disputes will be deducted from your pending payouts. If these are not sufficient, we will use your linked bank account, followed by credit card, to cover the balance of any owed amounts....If a seller does not have enough funds in their Available for payout, or Pending Funds to cover the full amount of a refund, we will charge the seller’s payout bank account or automatic payment method, depending on preference, to cover the remaining amount. " https://pages.ebay.com/seller-center/service-and-payments/managed-payments-on-ebay.html
Ebay forcing me into an overdraft by sucking money from my bank account is absolutely unacceptable.

And that's enough for now.

[bd139]

Three things:

Firstly this is no different to the current paypal agreement. Go and read it carefully. Get a mule basic bank account (I run one with Halifax) that has no overdraft capability and link that to paypal/whatever. It'll just reject the transaction. Set the backup credit card to a prepaid mastercard. On top of that they can only pull from an account by prior agreement in the UK (direct debit) and the legal standing is you can invalidate that agreement retrospectively unconditionally including fees and charges incurred if you disagree with a transaction.

Secondly, Adyen's current policy is defined only for business sellers and is similar to a typical merchant's agreements. This is a whole new integration for individual non-corporate sellers which will be in line with consumer law.

Thirdly, the CJEU invalidated the EU-U.S. Privacy Shield agreement invalid which has really fucked up the entire payment services market across Europe. That means it might not actually be legally possible for eBay, headquartered in the USA, to process data for any EU citizens lawfully. Ho ho ho. Watch this space. Even the lawyers don't know what to do about that one.

As for data breach, yep!

Edit: I am somewhat worried about the direction generally though as generally lobbying is very effective because politicians are bent as fuck so I'd rather like to see a neutral market with no interest other than providing sales contacts and let them work the transactions out. Unfortunately in the UK that's gumtree and ebay own it 

[Towger]

tggzzz,

There is a lot of Americanisms in the info quoted, which may not convert well into the European SEPA (but to a better extent with the British BACS) system.  For example, under SEPA it is easier reverse a direct debit from your bank account than do a credit card charge back.  If done in 13 days, no questions asked.  With my bank they have a 'Cancel' button beside each debit transaction.  Of course eBay/Adyen will probably just freeze your account afterwards, much like PayPal does for a charge back.  It will be interesting to see how far they push this, or will PayPal be the 'Classic Coke'.

[tggzzz]

Three things:

Firstly this is no different to the current paypal agreement. Go and read it carefully.

Neither paypal nor ebay has my bank account details. Paypal has my credit card details, which is very different and fine by me.

Get a mule basic bank account (I run one with Halifax) that has no overdraft capability and link that to paypal/whatever. It'll just reject the transaction. Set the backup credit card to a prepaid mastercard.

The mule account had occurred to me, but the prepaid credit card is a neat trick - assuming They allow it.

On top of that they can only pull from an account by prior agreement in the UK (direct debit) and the legal standing is you can invalidate that agreement retrospectively unconditionally including fees and charges incurred if you disagree with a transaction.

That kind of consideration occurred to me, but I've never had to invoke anything of the kind.

My understanding is that ebay takes BACS/CHAPS detail, and I don't understand if that opens different liabilities.

Secondly, Adyen's current policy is defined only for business sellers and is similar to a typical merchant's agreements. This is a whole new integration for individual non-corporate sellers which will be in line with consumer law.

Ebay makes repeated explict statements that it will be rolled out to private sellers.

Thirdly, the CJEU invalidated the EU-U.S. Privacy Shield agreement invalid which has really fucked up the entire payment services market across Europe. That means it might not actually be legally possible for eBay, headquartered in the USA, to process data for any EU citizens lawfully. Ho ho ho. Watch this space. Even the lawyers don't know what to do about that one.

Unfortunately we won't be in the EU, and will be tossed hither and thither between the US and China.

As for data breach, yep!

Edit: I am somewhat worried about the direction generally though as generally lobbying is very effective because politicians are bent as fuck so I'd rather like to see a neutral market with no interest other than providing sales contacts and let them work the transactions out. Unfortunately in the UK that's gumtree and ebay own it 

[bd139]

BACS pull from consumers is Direct Debit. They may ask you to sign up. Do it then log into your banking and cancel the authorisation. Job done

[magic]

Ebay forcing me into an overdraft by sucking money from my bank account is absolutely unacceptable.

It still blows my mind that there are places where that is even possible

You people really should do something about your fundamental problem which is an absurd banking system

[tggzzz]

Ebay forcing me into an overdraft by sucking money from my bank account is absolutely unacceptable.

It still blows my mind that there are places where that is even possible

You people really should do something about your fundamental problem which is an absurd banking system

Let's not derail the thread down lines that will generate heat not light.

I've organised my finances so I've never had to worry about bank fraud, so I'm not fully up to date with the remedies available. Maybe bd139's suggestions are all that is necessary.