Elizabeth Holmes convicted of fraud

[AlbertL]

A last-minute reprieve, just as I expected.  She'll never serve a day in prison - and she knows it. 

[EEVblog]

A last-mnute reprieve, just as I expected.  She'll never serve a day in prison - and she knows it.

Yep:
https://au.news.yahoo.com/elizabeth-holmes-delays-start-prison-215255273.html

[james_s]

I'm pretty confident her life will fall apart anyway. I give her relationship a year, 2 max, untreated personality disordered people are unable to maintain longterm relationships. With any luck maybe she'll be hit by a bus.

[magic]

Not even sure what's more entertaining, the adventures of our American friends or all the salty dudes here

 

[mendip_discovery]

Not even sure what's more entertaining, the adventures of our American friends or all the salty dudes here

 

I would say given the money involved and the fact she has a $9 million mansion left over from it I guess it would get some annoyed. From what I gather white collar crime in America is fairly lenient so there is a chance she could get away with no jail time. I wonder if some of the saltiness is down to the "rich elite" getting away with stuff because the can afford people to get them out of trouble.

I'm just annoyed that a someone has been convicted of a crime and now they are trying to play the victim to get out of serving the punishment. This partly as I have that luck to be the kind of person who gets screwed over one lot of things but I just grumble about it and carry on.

[BravoV]

Happy judge ...   

[MrMobodies]

It is so far unclear when that ruling will come.

I think they made it unclear by slowing it down so much with the lawyers, Elizabeth and the children and demanding prosecutors for things that delay it.

But under the 9th US Circuit appeals court rules, Holmes' surrender has been automatically delayed until the court decides on her latest bid.

So it was inevitable.

I wonder what other things she could get out of the court of appeals.

I'm pretty confident her life will fall apart anyway. I give her relationship a year, 2 max, untreated personality disordered people are unable to maintain longterm relationships. With any luck maybe she'll be hit by a bus.

So maybe it is not a matter of how luxury a prison is but how long she can adhere to the routine.

[james_s]

I would say given the money involved and the fact she has a $9 million mansion left over from it I guess it would get some annoyed. From what I gather white collar crime in America is fairly lenient so there is a chance she could get away with no jail time. I wonder if some of the saltiness is down to the "rich elite" getting away with stuff because the can afford people to get them out of trouble.

I'm just annoyed that a someone has been convicted of a crime and now they are trying to play the victim to get out of serving the punishment. This partly as I have that luck to be the kind of person who gets screwed over one lot of things but I just grumble about it and carry on.

I'm salty about people getting away with crime in general. Over the past decade or so there has been a big push toward being soft on crime, and the result has not surprisingly been a massive increase in crime. Of course the stats lie because part of that softness is not even prosecuting many property crimes, and on top of that people know nothing will happen anyway so a lot of times they don't even report a crime. If a crime doesn't get reported or prosecuted then it didn't happen as far as crime stats go. It really feels like the criminals have all the rights and the victims are just supposed to suck it up and write off the losses as a cost of living.

[SiliconWizard]

I'm just annoyed that a someone has been convicted of a crime and now they are trying to play the victim to get out of serving the punishment.

Uh, they all try to get out of it at some point. Who wouldn't? Are you expecting all criminals to suddenly see the light and accept their punishment as a way to their redemption?

I agree with james_s in that she shouldn't get away with it, if just because it never leads to anything good for society in the long run.

But I still don't feel sorry for the alleged victims among the investors, they just asked for it.

[BBBbbb]

I'm pretty confident her life will fall apart anyway. I give her relationship a year, 2 max, untreated personality disordered people are unable to maintain longterm relationships. With any luck maybe she'll be hit by a bus.

This sounds like a dose of copium with the fact that the rules are simply not the same for the rich.
Her life falling apart would still mean being better off than the average person, especially when you're unable of empathy like she seems to be.

[magic]

I'm angry when Americans work their asses off for their magnate class so that they can spend the money on meddling in foreign politics just because they can.
I'm angry when Americans enable lunatics like Bush and Obama to start conflicts all over the world, lose them, and leave it to others to clean up the mess.

Americans eating their own is justice being served. Doubly so if it's the rich. Triply so if it only benefits a silly chick who won't get anything out of it other than a comfy mansion. Good for her.


But somehow everybody in the world watches American TV and gets upset about shit that's supposed to upset Americans?
I laugh at their self-imposed first world problems from behind the Atlantic

[james_s]

This sounds like a dose of copium with the fact that the rules are simply not the same for the rich.
Her life falling apart would still mean being better off than the average person, especially when you're unable of empathy like she seems to be.

As the saying goes, money can't buy happiness. I can't say for sure, but I strongly suspect she has BPD or NPD, and both of these disorders cause intense misery for the person that has them, along with people that have the misfortune to be around them. Her outward persona is overcompensating for the intense void within, self loathing and a feeling of worthlessness. They are miserable, insecure and empty and no amount of money or success changes this. The inability to perceive empathy contributes to repeated failed personal relationships, both romantic and friends/family, and usually they have no idea why, they believe they are completely sane and the whole world has it in for them.

[coppice]

As the saying goes, money can't buy happiness.

but poverty sure buys a lot of misery.

[james_s]

As the saying goes, money can't buy happiness.

but poverty sure buys a lot of misery.

Sure, but once you have enough money to cover your basic needs there are diminishing returns to having more money.

[magic]

As the saying goes, money can't buy happiness. I can't say for sure, but I strongly suspect she has BPD or NPD, and both of these disorders cause intense misery for the person that has them, along with people that have the misfortune to be around them. Her outward persona is overcompensating for the intense void within, self loathing and a feeling of worthlessness. They are miserable, insecure and empty and no amount of money or success changes this. The inability to perceive empathy contributes to repeated failed personal relationships, both romantic and friends/family, and usually they have no idea why, they believe they are completely sane and the whole world has it in for them.

A mostly fair characterization, and the reason why getting angry at crazy chicks is waste of time. They see your anger (so much for lack of empathy), they don't know that they are crazy, they think that you are

They are like automatons with no plan, no pragmatism, no goals other than one: trying to fit in and do whatever they think people expect of them and what would make them cool and popular. Faced with conflicting or changing expectations they simply get frustrated, rarely stop to rethink what they are doing and what it is (if any) that they really want to achieve. (The answer is acceptance, I guess). Showing lack of acceptance to them makes no meaningful difference, it's their baseline existence.

Their nature makes them chameleons, displaying the colors of the society they are in. Have an issue with a crazy chick? Maybe you also have one with her family, neighbors, coworkers, investors... or perhas a whole country which makes it a point to systematically ignore all sorts of craziness in the name of absolute egalitarianism

[Kjelt]

I'm salty about people getting away with crime in general. Over the past decade or so there has been a big push toward being soft on crime, and the result has not surprisingly been a massive increase in crime. 

Here in the Netherlands the criminal judicial system is a factor five overloaded. Not enough prosecutors, judges etc so every case below a certain thresshold is dropped.
Unbelievable since civil law is just continuing.
So no trials for multi time shoplifters, burglars but long trials for "famous" *puke* tv personalities , singers against social media people, fight divorces etc. 

[temperance]

@ Kjelt,

describing the judicial system as overloaded is an expression used by some to hide the fact that the system is not funded properly and in some instances corrupt and as such just other demonstration of government incompetence? That's what I'm seeing here in Belgium.

multi time shoplifters, burglars,... and the like are just small problems, a side effect of something deeper (a culture problem). The real problem starts somewhere in Germany passes trough Rotterdam, Amsterdam, Antwerp, Brugge, Gent...

[Kjelt]

Could be part of the issue but money does not solve all the problems.
AFAIK finding enough suitable people is an issue , just as protecting everyone.
It has become a mocro maffia jungle here and the next generation young "carreer" criminals have absolutely no conscious.

[temperance]

AFAIK finding enough suitable people is an issue , just as protecting everyone.

Here in Belgium, prosecutors use computers running windows 98 which can not be network anymore because of security reasons... From some friends over in the Netherlands I'm hearing the same stories.

It's like this:
you, are guilty until proven innocent when it comes to paying your taxes. Governments calculated that investing money into systems to squeeze some money out of people is a valuable thing.
Some criminal is by definition innocent until proven guilty and it costs money to chase them. Money laundering brings money so why do something about it?

[Kjelt]

I wouldn't go that far.
Old computer systems, yes every municipal had their own system. 
On country level, the tax laws in our country are so spaghetti obfuscated complicated during the last 30 years by politicians who ad hoc introduced band aid laws to fix a problem, that two 100+ million€ IT projects all failed because they could not be written down in the requirements and every person had a different interpretation. That is a big mess.
The last I heard is that two new tax change laws have been postponed because it was impossible to execute. The software can not handle it, the lack of civil servants could not handle it.
Time for a reset of the entire tax system if you ask me.

[james_s]

multi time shoplifters, burglars,... and the like are just small problems, a side effect of something deeper (a culture problem). The real problem starts somewhere in Germany passes trough Rotterdam, Amsterdam, Antwerp, Brugge, Gent...

They may be small problems in isolation, but when you have dozens or hundreds or thousands of them the impact on society gets substantial, and when you let them get away with it that emboldens more people to commit these crimes safe in the knowledge that they won't be prosecuted for it. There is a cost to society too, enough thefts can cause a store to lay off employees or even go out of business entirely. If people are getting their stuff stolen they feel less safe and secure, and a fundamental need of anyone is to feel safe. There are places I won't go because I don't want to risk having my car broken into by someone looking for valuables or loose change, neither of which are there but that doesn't stop them from smashing a window to rifle through things. Car breakins are rampant because again they are rarely ever prosecuted and now that has reached a point where many people don't even bother to report it. It's a classic example of how you have got to attack small problems promptly before they turn into big problems.

[temperance]

I stated something different: I stated that small crimes are a side effect of something deeper.

There are places I won't go because I don't want to risk having my car broken into by someone looking for valuables or loose change, neither of which are there but that doesn't stop them from smashing a window to rifle through things.

In many cases those small criminals are looking for valuables to trade for something they are addicted to. It doesn't help to remove those from the streets if you don't solve the root cause of the problem. But solving this seems very difficult because of the money going round. I've seen a documentary here where some of them claim to earn around 3..7K every week. A lot of people seem to like such incomes a lot.

Money and appearance matters more to some people than anything else.

As an example. One of my friends is a school teacher. She recently told me a story about children attending school without having anything to eat with them (where I live, schools don't provide lunch). In such case, schools provide a lunch and the parents in question receive a bill (something between €70...100 / year) which those parents refuse to pay. The interesting part is that parents who drop of their children at school with an empty lunch box usually drive around in very expensive cars and the larger the car the emptier the lunch box. There is even a case where the school received a letter from a lawyer office to dispute the bill in question because dear mother works in a lawyer office and thinks she can do whatever she like to. For many others the school has to revert to a debt collector...

I don't know what to think about that. But something is very wrong.

[james_s]

In many cases those small criminals are looking for valuables to trade for something they are addicted to. It doesn't help to remove those from the streets if you don't solve the root cause of the problem. But solving this seems very difficult because of the money going round. I've seen a documentary here where some of them claim to earn around 3..7K every week. A lot of people seem to like such incomes a lot.

Of course they are, and sure it helps, they used to aggressively charge and jail junkies and property crime was much lower. It's very hard to get rid of the dealers for the reasons you state, but the dealers are for the most part only supplying a demand, and you can reduce the demand by locking up the people that can't make sensible choices for themselves, and force them into addiction treatment. Personally I think they should all be picked up and given the option to go to treatment or go to jail. Instead they just get released to return to living on the street committing more crimes, if they are picked up at all. My rights and my property are more important than those of someone that refuses to live by the rules and refrain from victimizing others.

[SilverSolder]

In many cases those small criminals are looking for valuables to trade for something they are addicted to. It doesn't help to remove those from the streets if you don't solve the root cause of the problem. But solving this seems very difficult because of the money going round. I've seen a documentary here where some of them claim to earn around 3..7K every week. A lot of people seem to like such incomes a lot.

Of course they are, and sure it helps, they used to aggressively charge and jail junkies and property crime was much lower. It's very hard to get rid of the dealers for the reasons you state, but the dealers are for the most part only supplying a demand, and you can reduce the demand by locking up the people that can't make sensible choices for themselves, and force them into addiction treatment. Personally I think they should all be picked up and given the option to go to treatment or go to jail. Instead they just get released to return to living on the street committing more crimes, if they are picked up at all. My rights and my property are more important than those of someone that refuses to live by the rules and refrain from victimizing others.

Part of the "social contract" is that the State deals with criminals, in return for citizens not taking the law into their own hands.  When that breaks down, we get something like Brazil?

[coppice]

Part of the "social contract" is that the State deals with criminals, in return for citizens not taking the law into their own hands.

If its a contract, why was I never asked to agree to and sign a copy? Its an imposition, not a contract.