Fazio Electric

[strawberry]

soldering pencil seems a bit too hot 
ESR meter reads 35.9uF

[mansaxel]

The world of guitar amp repair has its fair share of cargo cultism. I think Fazio Electric is a welcome addition, bending the scene towards actual competence.  No fuss. Doing what is needed. End of story.

[Shock]

Colleen has some skills and appears genuine and sincere.

[mansaxel]

Colleen has some skills and appears genuine and sincere.

We (or preferably those on that side of the ocean, for reasons of shipping..) oughta do some repair queue cleanout and offer Fazio a Tek tube scope, a 200 type oscillator, and a VTVM, to get the feel of the bench right. 

In my mind, instruments that perform work are happy instruments.  I would argue that the Fazio bench looks to be a wonderful place to age for a mature piece of TE.

[rsjsouza]

Despite some procedural no-nos here and there, overall her videos are quite alright and have enough editing to keep me engaged without killing too much technical details. 

[Shock]

We (or preferably those on that side of the ocean, for reasons of shipping..) oughta do some repair queue cleanout and offer Fazio a Tek tube scope, a 200 type oscillator, and a VTVM, to get the feel of the bench right. 

Shes already doing quite well already on patreon. Probably better off with a modern tube tester if she doesn't own one yet. Kind of you offering up other peoples test gear to support youtubers though.

[bsfeechannel]

Despite some procedural no-nos here and there,

Example?

[mansaxel]

We (or preferably those on that side of the ocean, for reasons of shipping..) oughta do some repair queue cleanout and offer Fazio a Tek tube scope, a 200 type oscillator, and a VTVM, to get the feel of the bench right. 

Shes already doing quite well already on patreon. Probably better off with a modern tube tester if she doesn't own one yet. Kind of you offering up other peoples test gear to support youtubers though.

Trust me, the prospective donors have got enough. 

[rsjsouza]

Despite some procedural no-nos here and there,

Example?

Sure. In one of her last videos (or perhaps the last), she was repairing an amp sitting upright with all vaccuum tubes fitted. Easily disastrous scenario if the amp topples and breaks them.

Also, in the same video she was soldering/desoldering parts on the sockets with the vacuum tubes fitted - the thermal stress of rapidly heating/cooling the socket pins is also propagated to the tube pins, which can create small leaks in the metal/glass junction and reduce the lifespan of the tube. This was a common alert on all the vacuum tube manuals I ever read.

There are other minor things such as shotgun replacement of capacitors, etc. but these are more or less justified depending on the conditions.

[bsfeechannel]

Sure. In one of her last videos (or perhaps the last), she was repairing an amp sitting upright with all vaccuum tubes fitted. Easily disastrous scenario if the amp topples and breaks them.

Also, in the same video she was soldering/desoldering parts on the sockets with the vacuum tubes fitted - the thermal stress of rapidly heating/cooling the socket pins is also propagated to the tube pins, which can create small leaks in the metal/glass junction and reduce the lifespan of the tube. This was a common alert on all the vacuum tube manuals I ever read.

Indeed.

There are other minor things such as shotgun replacement of capacitors, etc. but these are more or less justified depending on the conditions.

What is a "shotgun replacement of capacitors"? Did you perhaps mean the use of a heatgun to replace capacitors?

[mansaxel]

There are other minor things such as shotgun replacement of capacitors, etc. but these are more or less justified depending on the conditions.

I for one think -- while not being a confessed shotgunner myself -- that replacing caps is a refreshing down-to-earth attitude compared to the mythicism surrounding old leaky crapacitors; a bad offspring of the tube vulture vandalism.

It is the circuit that does the sound, not the age of the crapacitor. Any fool can swap in a NOS cap. Hardly any fool can design an amp. This borders on audiophoolery practices, which a lot of the time is "We can't change what's important (the acoustics of the room) so we place the speaker cables on small supports of special wenge and pockenholz construction and think that it's going to make our horrible room sound better."

There is one case of "worse is better", though, that bears mentioning:

Many years ago, I worked at a place where we were tasked with repairing theatrical dimmer packs, the kind where there's a 30A input, and 6 5A circuits controlled by a 0-10V signal per circuit. The triac would fail, and sometimes take the trig optocoupler and an adjacent resistor with it.  We looked up the values, got new parts, slapped it together, and out the door. Tested, working.

It came back, a bit too often, with the resistor fried. Ok, higher wattage resistor in, out the door, next!

And it came back again. Same fault.  It turns out that the original resistor was carbon comp. We'd fitted metal film. According to the manufacturer, the circuit was marginal enough that there were latent oscillations in it that only were tamed if the resistor was carbon comp. If a "better" metal film resistor got replaced, the oscillations went on a rampage.

[nctnico]

Despite some procedural no-nos here and there,

Example?

Sure. In one of her last videos (or perhaps the last), she was repairing an amp sitting upright with all vaccuum tubes fitted. Easily disastrous scenario if the amp topples and breaks them.

Also, in the same video she was soldering/desoldering parts on the sockets with the vacuum tubes fitted - the thermal stress of rapidly heating/cooling the socket pins is also propagated to the tube pins, which can create small leaks in the metal/glass junction and reduce the lifespan of the tube. This was a common alert on all the vacuum tube manuals I ever read.

There are other minor things such as shotgun replacement of capacitors, etc. but these are more or less justified depending on the conditions.

I noted the can of Deoxit contact cleaner which was used to clean destroy the potmeters on a unit   A real repair would be to replace the potmeters with new high quality ones. Or just leave the potmeters as-is if they are fine. If it ain't broken don't ruin it.

[rsjsouza]

There are other minor things such as shotgun replacement of capacitors, etc. but these are more or less justified depending on the conditions.

What is a "shotgun replacement of capacitors"? Did you perhaps mean the use of a heatgun to replace capacitors?

Ah, the term "shotgun" (espingarda) alludes to the very wide blast area of a shot that comes from a shotgun and is usually used when someone in repair goes and replaces all parts regardless of their current state. As you can imagine, this is very common with capacitors.

I, for one, always try to avoid doing this whenever faced with an equipment repair. Obviously that, depending on the complexity of the repair, importance of equipment or obvious recurring faults, this is the best approach.

I for one think -- while not being a confessed shotgunner myself -- that replacing caps is a refreshing down-to-earth attitude compared to the mythicism surrounding old leaky crapacitors; a bad offspring of the tube vulture vandalism.

I don't believe in the capacitor voodoo as well - I just hate replacing parts with no justification.

Throughout the years, however, I was faced with several scenarios where rows of capacitors were suspicious enough to warrant a shotgun replacement, such as my grandparents' 1946 Philips radio that had several paper-oil capacitors replaced in the early 1980s by my dad. This year I put it back on my table to do a renovation and all of them showed higher leakage than an original tar capacitor that he forgot to replace back then. I can't help but wonder if all these indeed needed replacement back then, but that is now history. Not to mention that, when a tar capacitor goes "kaboom", it makes quite a mess (just like the box Rifa capacitors).

I noted the can of Deoxit contact cleaner which was used to clean destroy the potmeters on a unit   A real repair would be to replace the potmeters with new high quality ones. Or just leave the potmeters as-is if they are fine. If it ain't broken don't ruin it.

Although Deoxit is less crap than WD40 (commonly used by inexperienced people), some of these pots are unfortunately irreplaceable or their purchase is absurdly costly, making people take those desperate measures. Although Caig has some recommendations for potentiometer maintenance - I am not sure what product she used, though.

[nctnico]

I noted the can of Deoxit contact cleaner which was used to clean destroy the potmeters on a unit   A real repair would be to replace the potmeters with new high quality ones. Or just leave the potmeters as-is if they are fine. If it ain't broken don't ruin it.

Although Deoxit is less crap than WD40 (commonly used by inexperienced people), some of these pots are unfortunately irreplaceable or their purchase is absurdly costly, making people take those desperate measures.

According to my experience using 'contact cleaner' always makes the situation worse in the long run. The oil turns dust into a fine grinding paste and the acids will slowly corrode everything away. The worst part is that wires will wick it to other places causing havoc. My firm believe is that contact cleaner is great to make a piece of equipment work for another day before you throw it into the trash. Over the years I have seen enough examples of equipment which would be perfectly restorable if some idiot didn't use contact cleaner on it in the past.

If you really want to clean a contact or potmeter, take it apart and use alcohol to get rid of dust & oil and re-apply acid-free grease where necessary.

[rsjsouza]

If you really want to clean a contact or potmeter, take it apart and use alcohol to get rid of dust & oil and re-apply acid-free grease where necessary.

Indeed that is the best repair method.

[Johnny10]

That's interesting that you say this about Caig Deoxit. All the tube amplifier repair gurus recommend using D50 or Fader F-Series Lube to correct scratchy pots.
I have used it on my 1960's era Stromberg Carlson Tube amps with lasting (many years) effect.

But I am willing to rethink this if you have evidence to the contrary.

I am going to be repairing a couple of 1970's Mcintosh transistor amps that are beginning to have crackly potentiometer issues.
Noting that these are mostly unobtainable parts.

[NiHaoMike]

That's the most elaborate nail painting I have seen on an electronics tech. It's already showing signs of wear which explains why it's more common with software engineers.

[nctnico]

I am going to be repairing a couple of 1970's Mcintosh transistor amps that are beginning to have crackly potentiometer issues.
Noting that these are mostly unobtainable parts.

Unobtainable in what way? If it is just the value, you can put a resistor in parallel to get to the original value give or take some non-linearity but that is likely dwarfed by the tolerances in the rest of the circuit.

[floobydust]

I noted the can of Deoxit contact cleaner which was used to clean destroy the potmeters on a unit   A real repair would be to replace the potmeters with new high quality ones. Or just leave the potmeters as-is if they are fine. If it ain't broken don't ruin it.

DeOxit works fine on switches and potentiometers. It's kind of designed for that. Where are you getting this "destroy" bullshit from?
Worst I've seen are cleaners loaded with petroleum-based oil which is terrible on phenolic. Cleaning out the old lube etc. without removing oxide from the wiper leaves you will a scratch pot still.
Replacing the potentiometers on vintage gear is difficult (high ohmic value, taps etc.) and expensive they easily run >$15 a piece, and don't even mention putting in cheap chinese parts.

I shotgun (outright replace all) electrolytic capacitors at the 40 year old mark, good luck to all who think they are fine for another 20.

[Johnny10]

Do a little research on vintage Hi-Fi amplifiers and preamps.
2-6 thousand dollars is not uncommon.
Where do you get original type parts for reasonable dollars.
Volume pots for my unit running close to 90 dollars.

Guess shouldn't have said unobtainium after a bit more searching.

The question was, is Deoxit going to be destructive in some way?

[floobydust]

I didn't hear reasoning or experience or science for condemning DeoxIT. Caig Laboratories has gone way overboard with their marketing, confusion, redundant products etc. It's gross trying to pick one of their products. I hate it. They dumb it down and make a product for every application and component imaginable in order to sell more more more.

There must be a dozen threads on EEVblog about servicing potentiometers and rotary switches. Everything from WD-40 fanboys to worse. It starts a Holy War everytime.

There are cleaners, which are solvents to flush out dirt and old lube.
There are contact enhancers, which are PPE and anti-oxidizers.
There are lubricants, which are grease or oil. Silicone or petroleum based. Some have teflon particles added.
If people could understand the three essentials- and that no products do it all. We're just lazy and want to use a spray. Some ingredients are bad with certain materials. I review the MSDS for chemical composition and use that to figure it out.

I found DeoxIT Fader Lube F5 is good at the contact surface, but it's not a lubricant. The shaft is not looked after, likely wear fast now and feel dry. I sprayed some F5 on a paper towel and mirror only to find all except the PPE had evaporated in one day. I would say it's useless as a mech lubricant, and only recently they announced DeoxIT greases like FaderGrease (silicone) but all others use lithium and not suitable for your multimeter rotary switch IMHO. That's where you need both a lube and contact enhancement.
In the old days I was in there with grease on pot's mech, you had to do that after the clean and contact enhance.
Taking apart potentiometers to clean them is just hard due to the crimps and vintage gear i.e. 1950's too fragile sometimes for it.

[bsfeechannel]

Ah, the term "shotgun" (espingarda) alludes to the very wide blast area of a shot that comes from a shotgun and is usually used when someone in repair goes and replaces all parts regardless of their current state. As you can imagine, this is very common with capacitors.

I, for one, always try to avoid doing this whenever faced with an equipment repair. Obviously that, depending on the complexity of the repair, importance of equipment or obvious recurring faults, this is the best approach.

Ah, OK. Now I understand what you mean by that. Yes, but for those 40+ year old amps, as others pointed out, there's no point in testing capacitors one by one to see if it is worth replacing them. There's almost a consensus among guitar amp repair people that they should all be changed out. Sometimes their clients insist on preserving at least the tone capacitors because they believe that that's where the "mojo" is, but leaky coupling caps and dried-out filter caps all go mercilessly. Their replacements are cheap these days and the presence of the old ones can compromise expensive parts like the output tubes, the rectifier tube, the power transformer or the output transformer. No musician wants that.

[Shock]

If the amp is cheap and the owner just wants it fixed and reliable, you're not going to be dismantling pots and stuffing caps. There is a large difference between a quick repair and a vintage accurate restoration.

Fader lube (F100L) is for carbon, the plain red Deoxit (D100L) for oxidized metal, Deoxit Gold (G100L) is for gold.

[rsjsouza]

I didn't hear reasoning or experience or science for condemning DeoxIT.
(...)
If people could understand the three essentials- and that no products do it all. We're just lazy and want to use a spray.

And these are two of the issues with this whole subject; there is a lot of anecdotal evidence with varying degrees of reporting quality, but marketing does not help as they are trying to oversell. In general, in a repair one might not have the history of the prior "fix", only the final result of the techniques and compare to one's own experiences or knowledge about what the product did in a prior attempt. Internet helps with that, but only to a certain extent as it is hard to separate the wheat from the chaff.

A single product also does not do it all, thus the best technique (again, in my experience) would be to clean the part piece by piece and not as a whole using one or more sprays. Obviously that is not possible in all scenarios. Back in my early days I too had applied WD40 to a variety of inappropriate materials and purposes, allured by the marketing surrounding this product, only to find a worse situation only months later. Although not DeoxIT, I have seen other sprays and products (teflon spray, Singer oil, lithium grease, etc.) applied with varying degrees of results.

Yes, but for those 40+ year old amps, as others pointed out, there's no point in testing capacitors one by one to see if it is worth replacing them. There's almost a consensus among guitar amp repair people that they should all be changed out. Sometimes their clients insist in preserving at least the tone capacitors because they believe that that's where the "mojo" is, but leaky coupling caps and dried-out filter caps all go mercilessly. Their replacements are cheap these days and the presence of the old ones can compromise expensive parts like the output tubes, the rectifier tube, the power transformer or the output transformer. No musician wants that.

In my experience, musicians want different things and not necessarily the technically superior solution - it is not uncommon they want to preserve the original appearance as much as possible, despite the fact the parts are enclosed under the chassis. For that particular aspect, preserving the original capacitors as much as possible can save some headaches (and create some, of course). Again, it is always a balance between what is needed and what is wanted (and obviously how much $$$ one wants to spend)

If the amp is cheap and the owner just wants it fixed and reliable, you're not going to be dismantling pots and stuffing caps. There is a large difference between a quick repair and a vintage accurate restoration.

Fader lube (F100L) is for carbon, the plain red Deoxit (D100L) for oxidized metal, Deoxit Gold (G100L) is for gold.

Fully agree; however, the reliable part is what is always on the table when lubricants for pots are discussed. floobydust's post encompasses well what a potentiometer requires overall and your three options are good for the track, not for the shaft.

[Shock]

I wasn't replying to Floobs post, just mentioning what Deoxit product is for which contact type. If you have dry lubricant on the shaft as long as it's not super contaminated or damaged there are a few ways to free it up (without opening). As I said, the customers budget often dictates these things.