Federal court says retired engineer Wayne Nutt can talk about engineering.

[Psi]

You might remember from the news a while back when a retried engineer was asked by the state to stop expressing his opinions about engineering without a state practicing license, or face prosecution

The 'Institute for Justice' took up his case against the North Carolina Board of Examiners for Engineers and Surveyors.

He has just won his case. The court held that that the state officials violated the First Amendment.


https://ij.org/press-release/federal-judge-hands-free-speech-victory-to-retired-engineer/

[TomWinTejas]

IJ does amazing work and has had such great success over the years fighting for the little guys against the state. 

[zapta]

The institute for justice does great job indeed. And they take donations...

https://ij.org/support/give-now/

[Psi]

this should be in general chat section... i dont have a badge.. just saying.

Ops, that was where I intended to post it. Not sure how I messed that up.

If an admin reads this pls move it to general

[Simon]

Moved

[soldar]

There was a similar case in Oregon.  Sometimes it is hard to believe the amount of stupidity that can be contained by a few humans assembled in a board.

https://ij.org/press-release/oregon-engineer-makes-history-with-new-traffic-light-timing-formula/

Mats Järlström, was fined $500 by the Oregon State Board of Examiners for Engineering and Land Surveying for publicly criticizing traffic light timing without first obtaining a professional engineering license.

[Stray Electron]

There was a similar case in Oregon.  Sometimes it is hard to believe the amount of stupidity that can be contained by a few humans assembled in a board.

   Why is that hard to believe?  Boards are CREATED for people that think that they have the right to control what other's think, do and say.   HOAs are a perfect example.

[thm_w]

There was a similar case in Oregon.  Sometimes it is hard to believe the amount of stupidity that can be contained by a few humans assembled in a board.

https://ij.org/press-release/oregon-engineer-makes-history-with-new-traffic-light-timing-formula/

Mats Järlström, was fined $500 by the Oregon State Board of Examiners for Engineering and Land Surveying for publicly criticizing traffic light timing without first obtaining a professional engineering license.

Oh they also tried to pull that BS about taking over the generic term of "engineer". Professional engineers and licenses should absolutely exist, but, engineer is a generic term that should not be protected unless you are trying to obviously deceive people into thinking you are licensed.

Under the law invalidated last week, Oregon-licensed professional engineers alone could legally describe themselves using the word “engineer.” And in recent years, the state’s engineering board enforced that law relentlessly. As last week’s ruling noted, the board “repeatedly targeted individuals for using the title ‘engineer’” in many different contexts, “including core political speech such as campaigning for public office and advocacy against a local ballot initiative.” In candid moments, the board even asserted that they could punish the hundreds of Intel employees who call themselves “engineers” without having a board-issued license.

Last week’s ruling held that the state cannot regulate speech in this way. “Courts have long recognized that the term ‘engineer’ has a generic meaning separate from ‘professional engineer,’” the court reasoned, and the word engineer “cannot become inherently misleading simply because a state deems it so.”

Sadly this is currently happening in Canada and some courts have defended it.

[HalFET]

The entire PE system in the US is wild, and some of the ones I've had the "pleasure" of working together with were some of the biggest idiots I've met in my entire career. It's very much a case of guarding against competition through needless bureaucracy and gatekeeping.

[Psi]

Oh they also tried to pull that BS about taking over the generic term of "engineer". Professional engineers and licenses should absolutely exist, but, engineer is a generic term that should not be protected unless you are trying to obviously deceive people into thinking you are licensed.

"Professional Engineer" should be a generic term for someone who does engineering as their profession.

Only things like "Registered Engineer", "Certified Engineer" or "Licensed Engineer" should been protected terms.

[mendip_discovery]

There was some talk in the UK of Engineers wanting to use Eng in thier name much like Doctors have the Dr.

I think it was another form of protection for the work they do to become they really don't like the term being used in the common workplace all that much.

[langwadt]

There was a similar case in Oregon.  Sometimes it is hard to believe the amount of stupidity that can be contained by a few humans assembled in a board.

   Why is that hard to believe?  Boards are CREATED for people that think that they have the right to control what other's think, do and say.   HOAs are a perfect example.

the board of a HOA is elected by the people who live there..

[EPAIII]

I am a licensed engineer. I worked as an engineer for my entire civilian career. That license was not an absolute requirement, but, at least in the early years (1960s, '70s, '80s) it was a always asked for.

Here's the kicker. My license was almost a joke. It was an FCC, First Class Radio-Telephone license which was supposed to be a requirement for operating and maintaining a commercial transmitter. You took a series of tests with the First Class being the last one. Why was it a joke? Because there were private schools who taught the questions on the tests. You paid them their fee and they taught you if you see such-and-such in the question, the answer is B. Never mind any understanding of what was being asked in that question, just THE ANSWER IS B. Likewise for all the other questions on all the versions that the FCC had.

How do I know? A friend of mine taught one of the classes. He had a Second Class license and took the new First Class tests when they became available. In spite of the fact that he knew every answer to every question on every version of the test, he always DELIBERATELY flunked so he could continue taking the new tests and memorize the new questions and answers. Then he would get together with the other teachers and try to figure out what answers the FCC wanted for each new question. Not, what the correct answer was, but what the FCC thought it should be. Some questions made NO SENSE. They still had to figure out what answer was considered correct. I sat in on a couple of those sessions. It was great fun.

For a fee, they guaranteed you an FCC license. It was a joke. Somewhere around the late 70s the FCC did away with the test system and issued replacement, General Class licenses to all holders. They did not expire so I guess I am still licensed by the FCC, if I can find it.

I designed and built TV stations. I operated, maintained, even modified TV transmitters. I hired and supervised others to do those things. My status has never been questioned by any state that I worked in and I have never heard of any state that did so.

As far as I know, all 50 states did not question the FCC license and do not question the title of engineer for those who work on the technical side of radio and TV stations. So I guess I am a legitimate engineer in all 50 states.

[DavidAlfa]

So if a random guy at YouTube criticices city lights  no problem, but if you're anengineer you get fined?
In any case it's still your personal opinion, so why the fine?

[HalFET]

So if a random guy at YouTube criticices city lights  no problem, but if you're and engineer you get fined?
In any case it's still your personal opinion in so why the fine?

Because coming up with actual arguments would take actual knowledge and skill, far easier to just silence and gatekeep using bureaucracy.

[tszaboo]

Mats Järlström, was fined $500 by the Oregon State Board of Examiners for Engineering and Land Surveying for publicly criticizing traffic light timing without first obtaining a professional engineering license.

We can criticize anything we want. And if mr government agent doesn't like it, feel free move to soviet russia, disconnect the internet and live in fear for the rest of their lives.

[PlainName]

So if a random guy at YouTube criticices city lights  no problem, but if you're anengineer you get fined?
In any case it's still your personal opinion, so why the fine?

Possibly because a pukka engineer would have a clue, so therefore his opinion would carry weight that some random dweeb's wouldn't. Like if your doctor says never to touch such and such medicine, you'd probably figure he knows his shit and you wouldn't go against, whereas you'd just laugh at the antivaxxerinfluencer.