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Fire in UK apartment building supposedly caused by oldrefrigerator that exploded
Posted by cdev on 19 Jun, 2017 22:53 -
Intersprersed within a bunch of other distressing news on the Grenfell Tower disaster in the UK was the statement by one of the survivors that the fire had been caused by an refrigerator that exploded.
I have never heard of an refrigerator exploding. Since we've been talking about exploding power supplies and other "appliances" and since this has been in the news,does that sound like something that could happen or
Hmmm.. looks like it does happen..
https://www.google.com/search?q=refrigerator+exploded
So, I am guessing it must have been a big enough explosion to cause a window to blow out and flames to go out of the window of the apartment where they likely came into contact with the plastic and aluminium cladding that enclosed the building which appears to have been flammable.And that caused the fire to spread rapidly up the outside walls, the window frames were also plastic, not metal.
The outside of the building is such a dark black. That implies an extremely greasy non-wood based flame to me. -
I can't comment on the tragic UK apartment building fire, but I can certainly comment on fridges catching fire.
This was a faulty design apparently, the defrost element some times actually iced up and was then pushed into the insulation of the fridge resulting in a bad day.
It could have been much worse, but thankfully we were at home having breakfast at the time! I was able to extinguish it.
When we were talking to the insurance company they said they were dealing with claims where the fridge fire resulting in the whole house going up. 30 minutes later and that would have been us too!
Please make sure you have a functioning fire extinguisher in easy reach in your house and everyone knows how to use it! It also wouldn't hurt to check your local consumer protection group for recall notices on your major appliances..
Ash.
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I can't comment on the tragic UK apartment building fire, but I can certainly comment on fridges catching fire.
This was a faulty design apparently, the defrost element some times actually iced up and was then pushed into the insulation of the fridge resulting in a bad day.
It could have been much worse, but thankfully we were at home having breakfast at the time! I was able to extinguish it.
When we were talking to the insurance company they said they were dealing with claims where the fridge fire resulting in the whole house going up. 30 minutes later and that would have been us too!
Please make sure you have a functioning fire extinguisher in easy reach in your house and everyone knows how to use it! It also wouldn't hurt to check your local consumer protection group for recall notices on your major appliances..
Ash.
Damn man, you were lucky! Hmm, my parents have a bunch of fridges and freezers at their place, in a detached garage... Kind of makes me want to put Nest or other connected smoke alarm in their, just in case! -
I was wondering what the stats were, I found some online https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/618561/infographic-fire-statistics-england-1516.pdf. Electrical stuff is the second leading cause of fires, but smoking is the biggest cause of fatalities. Cooking is a common cause of fires, but people are generally in attendance then, and injuries are relatively low.
BTW, if you keep a fire extinguisher, make sure you clear a path to a fire exit first, only use it tackle a fire after you are sure you can exit safely. The typical fire extinguishers last a minute or two (the small ones barely a minute), so are not effective if fire has taken hold.
Smoke inhalation is the biggest danger, fitting smoke alarms should be a priority. Other obvious points like keeping possible ignition source clear of combustible materials, could make the difference between a fire taking and you getting out safely.
It appears that the initial source of fire at Grenfell Tower had been out out, but the fire had already spread to exterior cladding. It seems obvious, but wrapping a tall building in easily burnable material is insane. It's not hindsight either, there were numerous warnings and widespread concerns expressed. It seems these things only progress when the Complacency Cycle hits a high point and a disaster occurs. -
The material is not what I'd describe as 'easily burnable'.. But given the right circumstances, it will carry a flame.
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i wouldnt believe *anything* right now.
there is huge amounts of disinfo being released from all directions.
probably to reduce the chance of any kind of prosecutions.
the public coverup / enquiry instantly announced is a good example.
under the law, you cant have a public investigation and a criminal one at the same time.
so the government has just stalled any real investigation - potentially for years.
tony blair pulled this trick to keep himself out of court for bombing iraq.
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They tried to say the cladding was banned in the UK but according to the New York Times, they were lying.
It IS banned for tall building use in the US and many other countries because of previous fires.
The UK has seemed to be going through a bad time now for a while, maybe since Thatcher. Similar in the US since Reagan. We both are like comic parodies of countries.
These claddings have been used to improve the insulation of a great many buildings without any major work needing to be done on them but they make too extensive use of plastics to be safe. and "Aluminum" (I like the way Dave says it) burns as well if it gets hot enough.
Nasty, nasty nasty flammable metals.. This all reminds me of 911. One note, it turns out after the 911 attack/fires that the smoke from that extremely hot and dirty fire had been so very toxic because of creation of exotic carbon nanotubes within the blaze. So survivors now are struggling with conditions similar to mesothelioma. I really hope that that did not happen in the UK fire but from what I know about the process of creating nanomaterials (often from waste like plastic bags and tires) it seems quite possible. Here is a series of photos of a recently redone apartment in the building. Stainless steel can catalyze the reaction which has to have high temperatures and very low oxygen to be safe.
Before too much time goes by people should attempt to test the ash. Carbon nanotubes are one of the strongest fibers known to man, and can be uniquely useful but also if released into the environment they pose huge dangers.
If there are CNTs in there they need to perform some serious decontamination of the area, as they would with asbestos except CNTs are far worse for health, more dangerous even than asbestos. This is because they can act as "adjuvants" to the immune system causing it to imprint, in a negative way, forever, on whatever is there at the same time. (again this in some situations can be commercially useful, for example, in getting drugs and cancer fighting chemicals through the blood brain barrier by simple nasal delivery) BUT a dirty environment with CNTs in it could, like the 9-11 dust cause immune system problems for the rest of the lives of people exposed to the dust through inhalation. Words don't convey the gravitas of the situation if there are CNTs in that dust. If thats the case they really should cordon off the entire area and begin decontamination as they would with asbestos. They cant let it become airborne. They should use misting and wiping off of all exposed surfaces and put the dust into a hazardous waste landfill. To remove it from the environment.
See
"Lung Disease in World Trade Center Responders Exposed to Dust and Smoke: Carbon Nanotubes Found in the Lungs of World Trade Center Patients and Dust Samples" Environmental Health Perspectives 118(4):499-504 ยท April 2010
See ETH's Nowack, et-al for his and his colleagues comprehensive exploration of the problems caused by unintentional release of engineered nanomaterials into the environment, (ENMs)
CNTs are likely the most dangerous ENMs because of their strength and high aspect ratio..
There is a very logical system which was developed at the national labs for sensible handling of ENMs, I forget its name. I will do some digging on this.
Another concern with burning plastics is the liberation of known "endocrine disrupting" chemicals which can cause a plethora of problems like reproductive issues, cancers and sterility and various other issues like abnormal sex organ development and trans-generational morbid obesity. These many extremely costly health problems are a serious public health issue that already consumes several percent of the entire EU and US GNPs and its growing as we enter unprecedented levels of contamination. EDCs are even found in the far Arctic.
This PLASTICS problem (with burning modern buildings) was discovered in the US but kept quiet because it removed the possibility that a nuclear war could be survived with any semblance of normalcy, the fact is, even apart from radiation, the contamination would be so horrible that society would be burdened with such a task it would be unable to continue as before. Agriculture in particular could become problematic in large parts of the planet due to this contamination of the soil. This issue is one of the core plot elements in Margaret Atwood's : "The Handmaids Tale" which is in part about problems posed to continued human existence by large scale contamination of the US with EDCs after a nuclear war.
As useful as plastics are we've allowed them into our homes in amounts so large that they have changed the way they burn profoundly. Its too much. Before we have a city go up in flames, anywhere, we need to reduce the plastics. -
the problem on and after 9/11 was tritium and asbestos inhalation.
no tritium here, and any un-removable asbestos will still be in place.
a friend checked the site the day after, the visible contamination is mostly chunks of foil-backed fiberglass wool all over the place.
i'm close enough to see the smoke out of my windows btw!!
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the problem on and after 9/11 was tritium and asbestos inhalation.
no tritium here, and any un-removable asbestos will still be in place.
a friend checked the site the day after, the visible contamination is mostly chunks of foil-backed fiberglass wool all over the place.
i'm close enough to see the smoke out of my windows btw!!
There was also issues with mercury poisoning due to the thousands of fluorescent bulbs in the towers being turned to dust when the towers came down. -
It took until 2010 for them to figure this out. CNTs are worse than asbestos.
Here is the report on 9-11 first responders.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2854726/
"
AbstractContext After the collapse of the World Trade Center (WTC) on 11 September 2001, a dense cloud of dust containing high levels of airborne pollutants covered Manhattan and parts of Brooklyn, New York. Between 60,000 and 70,000 responders were exposed. Many reported adverse health effects.Case presentation In this report we describe clinical, pathologic, and mineralogic findings in seven previously healthy responders who were exposed to WTC dust on either 11 September or 12 September 2001, who developed severe respiratory impairment or unexplained radiologic findings and underwent video-assisted thoracoscopic surgical lung biopsy procedures at Mount Sinai Medical Center. WTC dust samples were also examined. We found that three of the seven responders had severe or moderate restrictive disease clinically. Histopathology showed interstitial lung disease consistent with small airways disease, bronchiolocentric parenchymal disease, and nonnecrotizing granulomatous condition. Tissue mineralogic analyses showed variable amounts of sheets of aluminum and magnesium silicates, chrysotile asbestos, calcium phosphate, and calcium sulfate. Small shards of glass containing mostly silica and magnesium were also found. Carbon nanotubes (CNT) of various sizes and lengths were noted. CNT were also identified in four of seven WTC dust samples.Discussion These findings confirm the previously reported association between WTC dust exposure and bronchiolar and interstitial lung disease. Long-term monitoring of responders will be needed to elucidate the full extent of this problem. The finding of CNT in both WTC dust and lung tissues is unexpected and requires further study.Keywords: bronchiolitis, carbon nanotubes, interstitial lung disease, small airway disease, WTCOn 11 September 2001 (9/11), lower Manhattan and parts of Brooklyn were engulfed by a dense cloud of toxic and irritant dust and smoke generated by the collapse of the World Trade Center (WTC) towers (Landrigan et al. 2004; Levin et al. 2002; Lioy et al. 2002). This cloud comprised a complex mix of pollutants, among them the products of combustion of 91,000 L jet fuel, pulverized building materials, cement dust, asbestos, microscopic shards of glass, silica, heavy metals, and numerous organic compounds [see Supplemental Material, Table 1 (doi:10.1289/ehp.0901159)] (Edelman et al. 2003; McGee et al. 2003; Prezant et al. 2002; Reibman et al. 2005).
Adverse health effects have developed since 9/11 in workers and volunteers involved in the rescue, relief, and cleanup at the WTC site and at the Staten Island landfill (the major wreckage depository) (Edelman et al. 2003; Herbert et al. 2006; Landrigan et al. 2004; Lioy et al. 2002; Prezant et al. 2002). The health effects most commonly observed involved the upper and lower respiratory tract. Signs, symptoms, and findings include persistent cough, breathlessness, wheezing, asthma, sinusitis, laryngitis, and irritant-induced asthma, also named reactive airways dysfunction syndrome (RADS) (Herbert et al. 2006; Levin et al. 2002; Prezant et al. 2002). Cases of interstitial lung disease have also been reported, including acute eosinophilic pneumonia, granulomatous pneumonitis, sarcoidosis, and bronchiolitis obliterans (Izbicki et al. 2007; Mann et al. 2005; Rom et al. 2002; Safirstein et al. 2003).
The Mount Sinai WTC Medical Monitoring and Treatment Program (MMTP) was established to provide standardized screening and facilitate treatment of eligible responders who worked or volunteered at the WTC site. There is no systemic or comprehensive roster of all responders similar to the existing records of responders from the New York City uniformed services, such as the Fire Department of New York (FDNY) or New York Police Department, which frequently include their previous health condition. Estimates of the number of responders given by different sources range from 50,000 to 90,000 in total; we believe that the total, including FDNY workers, is likely to have been between 60,000 and 70,000 (Moline et al. 2009). In this article, we report on a case series of seven WTC responders enrolled in the Mount Sinai WTC MMTP who underwent video-assisted thoracoscopic (VATS) procedures at the Mount Sinai Medical Center and whose WTC exposures began on either 11 September or 12 September 2001. As of 11 September 2007, a total of 12,891 responders claiming first- and/or second-day exposure to the WTC pile had monitoring examinations at the Mount Sinai MMTP on or before 11 September 2007. Of these responders, one underwent VATS with biopsy in 2005, and six underwent VATS procedures between 1 January and 31 October 2007, because of severe pulmonary symptoms, impairment, or unexplained radiologic findings. We describe here the histopathologic patterns associated with these severe forms of respiratory impairment.
As part of our overall biopsy examination, we performed mineralogic analyses of the tissue from seven individuals believed to have been previously healthy who developed signs of respiratory impairment after sustaining WTC exposures. Additionally, we obtained and analyzed dust specimens collected on the site (DS) and examined old specimens (controls for old cases; COC) unrelated to the WTC disaster that were routinely submitted to our laboratory for asbestos burden analysis (n = 40) or obtained for research purposes from autopsy or surgical specimens (n = 20) of patients without history of WTC exposure."
It should be noted that the CNTs and their sibling, graphene are extremely interesting electronically. -
i wouldnt believe *anything* right now.
there is huge amounts of disinfo being released from all directions.
I totally agree. I live in the borough and the amount of opportunistic bandwagon politics going on is frankly sickening. That does not excuse the shocking lack of action by the council, and the tone deaf responses.Quoteprobably to reduce the chance of any kind of prosecutions.
the public coverup / enquiry instantly announced is a good example.
under the law, you cant have a public investigation and a criminal one at the same time.
so the government has just stalled any real investigation - potentially for years.
While it's understandable in anger to make accusations of conspiracy here, please remember that we are still at the recovery stage. My OH is a volunteer interpreter aiding those affected. Making blind accusations of cover ups isn't helping anyone at this stage, least of all those affected, so while it may be well-meaning, please consider the stage we're at here. There will be a time for this, and I am absolutely certain heads will roll, but now is not it.
For information, I have had my own run-ins over the years with this council over wasting public money and box ticking taking priority over common sense, particularly over road safety for pedestrians, and their modus operandi is to stonewall and accuse you of conspiracy (the irony!). The only way you can get them to respond is to take up your case with the ombudsman.
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Quote
probably to reduce the chance of any kind of prosecutions.
the public coverup / enquiry instantly announced is a good example.
under the law, you cant have a public investigation and a criminal one at the same time.
so the government has just stalled any real investigation - potentially for years.
<IANAL>As I understand it, an inquest must be adjourned while a criminal investigation is in progress, but a judge-led public enquiry, as announced, can take place at the same time.</IANAL> -
While it's understandable in anger to make accusations of conspiracy here, please remember that we are still at the recovery stage.
i'm not angry, i'm just well-versed in how local councils operate.
i would be VERY surprised if anything at all was on the level involving them.
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While it's understandable in anger to make accusations of conspiracy here, please remember that we are still at the recovery stage.
i'm not angry, i'm just well-versed in how local councils operate.
i would be VERY surprised if anything at all was on the level involving them.
As I said, I've had my own dealings with this particular council having lived within it for >25 years, the chances that they are blamefree is precisely zero.
I just received an email from the volunteer organisation regarding some interpreter work my OH was scheduled to be doing tomorrow:QuoteThank you for signing up to volunteer for Grenfell Tower. Unfortunately after many calls and emails the council have not responded, so it would be unnecessary to go down tomorrow afternoon if we are not needed.
Says it all really :-(
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OMG,
There is only one possible explanation.
They have some subcontractor literally on the other side of the world handling their office tasks. And that person doesn't know whats happened to Grenfell Tower.
You should tell them and see what their reaction is.
Quote from: Howardlong on Today at 09:29:34While it's understandable in anger to make accusations of conspiracy here, please remember that we are still at the recovery stage.
i'm not angry, i'm just well-versed in how local councils operate.
i would be VERY surprised if anything at all was on the level involving them.
As I said, I've had my own dealings with this particular council having lived within it for >25 years, the chances that they are blamefree is precisely zero.
I just received an email from the volunteer organisation regarding some interpreter work my OH was scheduled to be doing tomorrow:
QuoteThank you for signing up to volunteer for Grenfell Tower. Unfortunately after many calls and emails the council have not responded, so it would be unnecessary to go down tomorrow afternoon if we are not needed.
Says it all really :-(
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While it's understandable in anger to make accusations of conspiracy here, please remember that we are still at the recovery stage.
i'm not angry, i'm just well-versed in how local councils operate.
i would be VERY surprised if anything at all was on the level involving them.
As I said, I've had my own dealings with this particular council having lived within it for >25 years, the chances that they are blamefree is precisely zero.
I just received an email from the volunteer organisation regarding some interpreter work my OH was scheduled to be doing tomorrow:QuoteThank you for signing up to volunteer for Grenfell Tower. Unfortunately after many calls and emails the council have not responded, so it would be unnecessary to go down tomorrow afternoon if we are not needed.
Says it all really :-(
Keep the emails, in another few months they may be evidence for the public enquiry. -
The use of "council" for a town is not new to me, but as an American I have always been slightly puzzled.
Is it just a use of synecdoche that became standard? Is it somehow related to the British government structure that allows Parliament to overrule local decisions? -
I can't comment on the tragic UK apartment building fire, but I can certainly comment on fridges catching fire.
This was a faulty design apparently, the defrost element some times actually iced up and was then pushed into the insulation of the fridge resulting in a bad day.
It could have been much worse, but thankfully we were at home having breakfast at the time! I was able to extinguish it.
When we were talking to the insurance company they said they were dealing with claims where the fridge fire resulting in the whole house going up. 30 minutes later and that would have been us too!
Please make sure you have a functioning fire extinguisher in easy reach in your house and everyone knows how to use it! It also wouldn't hurt to check your local consumer protection group for recall notices on your major appliances..
Ash.
Interesting, I see you too have discovered the oven feature of your refrigerator.
The interesting thing is that our fire extinguisher is actually right next to the fridge.... -
The use of "council" for a town is not new to me, but as an American I have always been slightly puzzled.
Is it just a use of synecdoche that became standard? Is it somehow related to the British government structure that allows Parliament to overrule local decisions?
It's not entirely clear, but you seem to be reading "council" as a synedoche for "town". That's not an English usage. "Council" is simply short for "town council" (or "borough council" for large metropolitan subdivisions), the local administrative body.
In the particular case in hand it's the "Royal Borough of Kensington and Chelsea" but the "Royal" part is an honorific and it'd make more sense to an outsider to think of it as what it is, a metropolitan borough of London. -
Maybe the fault is in my own reading comprehension, but a poster saidQuote
I've had my own dealings with this particular council having lived within it
since I don't suppose he meant he literally occupied the meeting room of the local government for years.
Other terms like "council estate" have alike connotations. To American ears it sounds like the whole board mysteriously died and bequeathed property. -
Maybe the fault is in my own reading comprehension, but a poster said
QuoteI've had my own dealings with this particular council having lived within it
since I don't suppose he meant he literally occupied the meeting room of the local government for years.
Other terms like "council estate" have alike connotations. To American ears it sounds like the whole board mysteriously died and bequeathed property.
That was my crappy description and grammar, together with my own unhealthy dose of assumption and parochialism: it might've made more sense had I said:
"I've had my own dealings with this particular borough council having lived within the boundaries that they control."
I certainly apologise for not being more clear on this international forum.
The basic synopsis is that the government can disband errant councils if there is need, but it is generally under very exceptional and occasional circumstances, such as at Rotherham which is a particularly harrowing recent tragedy about wholesale organised child abuse (in the thousands), criticism of which was systematically brushed under the carpet and discussion about it shut down by accusing the whistleblowers of being racist and putting them on "diversity training".
While a different case, and an ideologically different council in terms of politics, the similarity to RBKC and Grenfell Tower is the council's stonewalling and its attempts to ignore difficult problems and trying to shut down dissent. If the currently elected RBKC survives without it being disbanded by government commission remains to be seen, but I'd suggest it's time to replace the old guard at the very least, it's hard to see how they'd be able to stand again without being heckled out of existence. "Politician" and "self-awareness" do seem mutually exclusive terms at times though. -
they are angering immigrants from areas in the world where they hang people up and torch them - that council needs to be very carefull AND POLITE.
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they are angering immigrants from areas in the world where they hang people up and torch them - that council needs to be very carefull AND POLITE.
Clear and they are begining to sing the Varshavianka . At first , on their countries they wouldn't have the guts for reclaimimg their rigths. And like all know ,they will finish to jail, dead or missed(Hassan II, Gadafi,Hussein).
As much the same right than the autochthonous, no more neither less . If they don't like they have the opened gate.
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I certainly apologise for not being more clear on this international forum.
You shouldn't be sorry: we all learn more from the interaction between electronic engineering, a truly international subject, with local problems and perspectives. (Why am I reminded of the "Suicide shower head" thread?)
To get back the subject, the exploding refrigerator is a mode of failure that is surprising but probably shouldn't be. At least, I would hope that the UK would be on guard against it having used North Sea gas powered fridges not that long ago! The instant cause in the photos above appears to be too little clearance and too little steel around the defrost element: I wonder if this is a defect particular to bottom-freezer designs. Top-freezer units that I have had apart use multiple steel panels behind and in front of the evaporator and defrost element, but this may have been optimized away in favor of increased efficiency/lower heat conductance. -
bit of unsurprising news,
somebody leaked a ton of video from the council camera's installed in the block.
because we all know that government agents all suffer from S.O.D.S. and consider camera's a much higher priority than alarms or sprinklers!
S.O.D.S. = Survailence Obsession Disorder. - a clinical condition.