Author Topic: fraud in science  (Read 24147 times)

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Offline dannyfTopic starter

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Re: fraud in science
« Reply #50 on: September 09, 2016, 03:22:21 pm »
"Here is a recent article about metric that went wrong"

True. But that's not the root cause. The issue here isn't just or even mostly due to employees gaming the new IC system. The issue is with the moronic managemnt that put that moronic IC system in place and failed to put a control framework around it.

Unfortunately, it is the shareholders and low level employees who ultimately paid the price, not senior management.

Zero accountability.
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Offline zapta

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Re: fraud in science
« Reply #51 on: September 09, 2016, 04:45:35 pm »
"Here is a recent article about metric that went wrong"

True. But that's not the root cause. The issue here isn't just or even mostly due to employees gaming the new IC system. The issue is with the moronic managemnt that put that moronic IC system in place and failed to put a control framework around it.

Unfortunately, it is the shareholders and low level employees who ultimately paid the price, not senior management.

Zero accountability.

I disagree that the employees that actually committed the fraud are not responsible, but will leave it there.
 

Offline b_force

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Re: fraud in science
« Reply #52 on: September 09, 2016, 05:23:50 pm »
"Here is a recent article about metric that went wrong"

True. But that's not the root cause. The issue here isn't just or even mostly due to employees gaming the new IC system. The issue is with the moronic managemnt that put that moronic IC system in place and failed to put a control framework around it.

Unfortunately, it is the shareholders and low level employees who ultimately paid the price, not senior management.

Zero accountability.

I disagree that the employees that actually committed the fraud are not responsible, but will leave it there.
Well soldiers who needed to fight for their home country are also not responsible for the ideas of a lunatic.
Even if they didn't agree with it, they had to follow orders otherwise they would commit another type of crime.

Unless you're in a position high enough to have some kind of power to do otherwise.

Offline dannyfTopic starter

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Re: fraud in science
« Reply #53 on: September 09, 2016, 06:37:16 pm »
Ehen i said that "The issue here isn't just or even mostly due to employees gaming the new IC system." I meant the following:

1. The employees are responsible.
2. The employees are not "not responsible".

So where did you disagree?
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Offline vodka

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Re: fraud in science
« Reply #54 on: September 09, 2016, 07:12:37 pm »

How many of you were taught a model of transistor behavior, and then sent into the lab to do experiments to confirm this result?  How often did a lab supervisor force you to a write up confirming the presented model, even if bad equipment, bad implementation of the tests, sloppy record keeping, noise or other problems made that confirmation problematic?
I didn´t experience that in my west-european university.

It is hard for me to conceive of undergraduate lab courses which don't enter with a strong bias on the models and results.  Those courses are not generally intended to uncover new physics, but to provide some confidence that the coursework is based on reality and some exposure to measurement techniques and problems.  If this is not how it is done in western Europe, well done to the educators.

The bias which seems endemic in US versions of lab courses is not surprising.  The science behind the experiments is not controversial and is generally agreed upon.  The experiments are chosen to avoid complexities beyond the theories which are supposed to be within the students grasp (for transistor experiments that means things like room temperature, modest current ranges, modest gains, modest frequencies, low slew rates and so on).  But it often means torturing the data into submission when something like a non-opaque potting material shows up in the transistor, exposing photoelectric effects.

Maybe on Belgian Universities don't make, i don't  know  other spanish universities  if they do this, but  on my university made this.

This made when at a practical lab had many problems*(almost all students) for obtained the result, so the great majority time ,the supervisor signed the lab part that you had could to do  .After when you made the report you had to put of the lab part that hadn't done the theorical valor.

*An example: At  practical lab, we had to  test a switching power supply of tipology  buck , so our group gave us a  crushed diy board(Made in University)  with the tracks and pads without copper, with  tin gobs,etc. I  fixed the tracks and the gobs but the board didn't work(too change the IC).
Until i began to suspect the transistor(the reference  was hidden among components). When  i discovered that the reference transistor didn't match with the documention.
I searched the datasheet and i found that it wasn't a transistor.  IT WAS A SCR .
We told to surpervisor lab the problem .And he saw that we couldn't perform the practice by the transistor and remained few time lab. He signed us the lab after we had to put on the report all the theorical data
 

Offline zapta

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Re: fraud in science
« Reply #55 on: September 09, 2016, 07:27:33 pm »
Ehen i said that "The issue here isn't just or even mostly due to employees gaming the new IC system." I meant the following:

1. The employees are responsible.
2. The employees are not "not responsible".

So where did you disagree?

I don't disagree with you two points here.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2016, 07:29:21 pm by zapta »
 

Offline vodka

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Re: fraud in science
« Reply #56 on: September 09, 2016, 07:54:55 pm »
"Here is a recent article about metric that went wrong"

True. But that's not the root cause. The issue here isn't just or even mostly due to employees gaming the new IC system. The issue is with the moronic managemnt that put that moronic IC system in place and failed to put a control framework around it.

Unfortunately, it is the shareholders and low level employees who ultimately paid the price, not senior management.

Zero accountability.

I disagree that the employees that actually committed the fraud are not responsible, but will leave it there.
Well soldiers who needed to fight for their home country are also not responsible for the ideas of a lunatic.
Even if they didn't agree with it, they had to follow orders otherwise they would commit another type of crime.

Unless you're in a position high enough to have some kind of power to do otherwise.

Do you ask to german  during WWII?

If german soldier negated to follow orders as shot the people or burning village ,they had all the numbers of be shot or  be destined to Punishment Battalion as hunter-tank,
otherwise they will be accused the war crimes.

On resume,whatever they do are screwed
 

Offline dannyfTopic starter

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Re: fraud in science
« Reply #57 on: September 09, 2016, 10:10:26 pm »
The same thing, blaming the little guys, is happening in the vw case. Given how pervasive the involvement is both in vw and in the industry, the issue there isn't simply a bad engineer. It is an issue of currupt culture and currupt management.

Yet, none of the big guys will go to jail. Instead, they will get paid handsomely for their services.

The same thing happened with the financial crisis, with our politicians as well.

As long as we keep the big gun pointed downward, we will continue to see this type of stories.
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