Good quality miniature pushbutton switches

[peter-h]

I am working on something which needs something fairly robust. The traditional ones are from Omron, Alps, TE, E-Switch, and half of China, in this style (this is Omron B3F)



I do actually want a tall actuator; about 12mm from the PCB. These are roughly 30p each.

The problem is that while these are rated at a fantastic # of operations (1M+) in the real world they die fast. I think they get damaged by overpressure. They just go dead. Sometimes the collapsible diaphragm just dies and you can feel it.

If you can use a bigger switch then the likes of Otto, C&K, etc do stuff for say £2, which is OK, and there is a fantastic choice of "milspec" switches, but they are all too big vertically (I would have to do a mezzanine PCB)



Then I went to APEM who I use for projects where money doesn't matter (usually £100 milspec toggle switches, on Ebay for £10) and they do lots of "reassuringly expensive" stuff like this
https://mktg.apem.com/hubfs/NEW_MEC-Product_Guide.pdf?hsLang=en
The main issue with APEM is their arrogant marketing and sales, especially here in the UK. I have moved an APEM hex switch to a chinese lookalike source, 1/3 the price, just for the lead time issues...
This looks good - the 1SS range
https://www.apem.com/medias/download/MEC_switches_serie_1SS_1IS_1LS.pdf



I don't actually know if these are better, but they are 10x the cost of Omron etc so they should be

Finding something that actually exists however is hard. The data sheets are crap, and one ends up on Mouser to see what is actually stocked. These APEM ones come out at 2-3 quid which is OK. APEM stuff is high quality. Their online chat desk produces nothing. They are French and they work differently IME, buying stuff from France is always painful, whether it is electronic components, aircraft parts, whatever. France is geared up to sell internally.

This one looks promising and is available. With the button, height is 15mm which is OK, but one can also 3D print buttons...
https://www.littelfuse.com/assetdocs/littelfuse-ck-tactile-ksc9-series-datasheet?assetguid=b31552c2-d9ef-44c6-9d28-d8a443c6ccea



I've seen people construct their own robust switches by using miniature microswitches, with custom made actuators.

I wonder if I am missing something obvious

[Gribo]

Is the tactile action required, or can you use a 'mushy' push button, something like the E-switch TL2202?

[Randy222]

NKK has it

[peter-h]

Tactile is desirable.

NKK - do you mean these
https://www.nkkswitches.com/pdf/Gpushbuttons.pdf
They are definitely "reassuringly expensive"

[Randy222]

I mean, if you have a spec then NKK probably has it. You can perhaps also use an NKK part number and get x-ref's to other vendors.
Good parts come with a cost.
Do you need two (free samples), or 20,000?

The overpressure issue can be overcome if the actuator has a built-in stop. I do not recall exactly, but in some designs I thought the switch pad protrudes a floor, and then the push shaft end sits on that pad, w/ dia is bigger than pad, so when it's pushed the max pressure is when shaft bottoms out onto the floor, it cant go any further than that. Check designs, they vary.

[peter-h]

There are not many robust PCB mounted switches with a reasonably low profile.

When I look at stuff which needs good ones (e.g. avionics) they tend to use this old style



in which there is a huge choice, and they set the PCB further back, and use the nuts on the switch bushing to fix the PCB to the front panel.

As I found, there are PCB mounted high spec switches but there are only a few of them. And they are pricey - say several £ - which in turn limits usage. For the same money you can get an "almost milspec" sealed one like the pic above, so why bother with obscure parts?

Volume, not sure. I need maybe a dozen for prototyping.

I bought 2 of each of about 20 switches from Mouser to see what they look and feel like. Probably the best way to do this, because if Mouser don't stock it, you will have fun getting it

Yes I often wondered why the common B3F-type switches don't have a mechanical stop. Maybe some have.

[Randy222]

Avionics should fit a mil-spec.
2nd, do switches in avionics get less cycles than say consumer goods, hence avionics switches last "forever"?

[Halcyon]

Didn't Dave do a video on switches that were sent into the mailbag? Or am I thinking of those tactile dome switches he got sent in a kit?

[MT]

These are made by loads of manufacturers last long and comes in various dimensions, cheap, nice feel, spring loaded, momentary and locking throw, standard head size for cap
, e.g used as reset switch in old school PC's.

[Haenk]

Are PC-keyboard switches a thing? These are available as "low profile" and quite robust. Though quite a bit larger footprint as those small Omron switches...

https://www.cherry.de/en-us/products/switches/mx-low-profile

[Zero999]

Are PC-keyboard switches a thing?

No. Perhaps back in 1980 but not now. All of the keyboards I've opened have membrane switches made from a flexible PCB, which are activated by keys with rubber springs to give tactile feedback.

[SteveThackery]

Are PC-keyboard switches a thing?

No. Perhaps back in 1980 but not now. All of the keyboards I've opened have membrane switches made from a flexible PCB, which are activated by keys with rubber springs to give tactile feedback.

You can still buy keyboards with individual Cherry switches.

[Zero999]

Are PC-keyboard switches a thing?

No. Perhaps back in 1980 but not now. All of the keyboards I've opened have membrane switches made from a flexible PCB, which are activated by keys with rubber springs to give tactile feedback.

You can still buy keyboards with individual Cherry switches.

That sounds expensive. Do you have an example?

[Zoli]

...
You can still buy keyboards with individual Cherry switches.

That sounds expensive. Do you have an example?

You can buy individual Cherry switches on Digikey:
https://www.digikey.ca/en/products/detail/cherry-americas-llc/MX1A-E1NN/40084

[peter-h]

In the 1980s I used to make keyboards with Cherry switches but they were a) no feel (not like the IBM ones ) and b) very tall.

[SiliconWizard]

Are PC-keyboard switches a thing?

No. Perhaps back in 1980 but not now. All of the keyboards I've opened have membrane switches made from a flexible PCB, which are activated by keys with rubber springs to give tactile feedback.

Of course they are. True "mechanical" keyboards have a significant market and use individual keyswitches. Cherry is the most known for those keyswitches, but there are a lot of other brands such as Gateron, which is cheaper but also popular.

https://www.cherry.de/en-gb/products/switches

[abeyer]

Yeah, I often use keyswitches for panel buttons if the pcb/panel size isn't a constraint. There are some good low-profile options (kailh choc, gateron low-profile) that are probably around OP's height requirement, but they are a considerably larger pcb footprint than most pushbutton switches.

[SiliconWizard]

Yeah, I often use keyswitches for panel buttons if the pcb/panel size isn't a constraint. There are some good low-profile options (kailh choc, gateron low-profile) that are probably around OP's height requirement, but they are a considerably larger pcb footprint than most pushbutton switches.

Yes, apart from the footprint, there are good and bad points depending on the application: good keyswitches will last (in terms of push cycles) considerably longer than the simple pusbuttons, and the tactile feel is also much nicer. But they are much easier to press as well and so may not be a good fit if a given application requires some resistance from the pushbutton to avoid unwanted presses.

[Zero999]

...
You can still buy keyboards with individual Cherry switches.

That sounds expensive. Do you have an example?

You can buy individual Cherry switches on Digikey:
https://www.digikey.ca/en/products/detail/cherry-americas-llc/MX1A-E1NN/40084

I know that. I'm asking whether there are keyboards made from those switches?

Look at the price. I accept Digikey is more expensive, but even if they can be purchased for a fraction of the price, a keyboard made from those would be very expensive.

[ksjh]

I know that. I'm asking whether there are keyboards made from those switches?

Look at the price. I accept Digikey is more expensive, but even if they can be purchased for a fraction of the price, a keyboard made from those would be very expensive.

Cherry also makes keyboards with MX switches. I have been using their mechanical keyboards for many years. Some of them are surprisingly cheap.

EDIT: Changed link for even cheaper mechanical keyboard.

[Psi]

Whatever you go with make sure you observer the minimum current.
Logitech learned the hard way that really low uA pullups lead to switch failures in mice if you don't get good quality switches rated for such low current.

I use two Omron B3F-1050 for the front panel switches in an automotive product. Never had one come back with a dead switch. Sold 2000-3000.
5V with internal MCU pullups (AVR) so around 20-50k. (100uA at 50k)

But damn the plastic button caps are expensive.
NZ$0.34 for the switch itself but the caps are NZ$1.07 each.   (500 qty)
If anyone knows where I can get cheaper or aftermarket caps (part B32-2010) that fit onto B3F-1050 buttons pls let me know.

[Someone]

You can buy individual Cherry switches on Digikey:
https://www.digikey.ca/en/products/detail/cherry-americas-llc/MX1A-E1NN/40084

I know that. I'm asking whether there are keyboards made from those switches?

Look at the price. I accept Digikey is more expensive, but even if they can be purchased for a fraction of the price, a keyboard made from those would be very expensive.

You claim there are no examples of mechanical switch keyboards??? have you even made the most basic of checks?
https://letmegooglethat.com/?q=keyboards+made+from+Cherry+MX
That manufacturer of switch even makes 1st party keyboards themselves FFS:
https://www.cherry.de/en-gb/products/keyboards/mechanical-keyboards

[Zoli]

...

You can buy individual Cherry switches on Digikey:
https://www.digikey.ca/en/products/detail/cherry-americas-llc/MX1A-E1NN/40084

I know that. I'm asking whether there are keyboards made from those switches?

Look at the price. I accept Digikey is more expensive, but even if they can be purchased for a fraction of the price, a keyboard made from those would be very expensive.

As Someone stated above, you can get mechanical keyboards based on Cherry switches; as example, I'm typing this reply on a Monoprice Cherry red 10+ years old keyboard(was ~$120CAD new). I hope this will answer one of your concerns(lifespan).
Side note: I've found and bought in thrift store a 60% Cherry red keyboard for $4.99CAD - and no, I'm not a keyboard fanatic. And pretty often I see mechanical keyboards(full, TKL, 60%) around $10CAD in the thrift stores.

[tooki]

Are PC-keyboard switches a thing?

No. Perhaps back in 1980 but not now. All of the keyboards I've opened have membrane switches made from a flexible PCB, which are activated by keys with rubber springs to give tactile feedback.

”Mechanical” keyboards have made a HUGE comeback in the past 15 years, to the point that you can go to a big box store and get one from Logitech, and usually several competitors. (During the late 90s through 2010s, they were fairly exotic but did exist. Gamers have driven a resurgence in mechanical keyboards. And with the “maker” community growing, there’s now a thriving community of keyboard nerds who design and build their own keyboards, even.)

All of my keyboards since around 2010 have been mechanical, using either genuine or clone Cherry MX. I own… 6 or 7, I think.

[peter-h]

Problem is, keyboard switches are way too big width-wise.