Author Topic: How is Chipageddon affecting you?  (Read 277952 times)

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Offline T3sl4co1l

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Re: How is Chipageddon affecting you?
« Reply #800 on: March 23, 2022, 06:54:30 pm »
Is this better? JIT: Just in time when a reasonable amount of things go wrong?

Well, pessimistic is better than misrepresentational.

Basic economics.  You're going to get burned.  You can't avoid that, no matter how much stock you allocate.  And buying all that up will be incredibly expensive.  Let alone doable at all; lots of things age in stock.  You can't hold it forever.  Is this what you are proposing as the alternative?  Surely not!

So it's going to go wrong.  Well, how wrong is it going to go?  Assign a dollar value.  Economics.

And now you can do statistics on it.  How often does it go wrong, and how badly?  (Important detail: is there any knock-on or power-law scaling associated with that "how badly"?  Evolutionary example: "punctuated equilibrium".)

And what is the opportunity cost of that?  How expensive is it to buy up that stock?  And to hold it?  (Aside: if you're holding a lot of stock anyway, could you profit from reselling that stock given market fluctuations?*)  How much does production suffer, or sales, or service, from that shortage?

And what possible alternatives can you engage, and how fast?  How much does it cost to change things over -- engineering hours, production tooling, etc.?

*Aha, so that's the market value-add of scalpers.  (Excuse me if this is more obvious than it seems.  But, I haven't seen it phrased this way before, so maybe it's worth remarking on.)  In effect, they're taking the opportunity to provide JIT for you -- at some additional margin, of course.  The difference being, instead of spending ahead of time to buy up what stock you need, you pay spot price now.  A price that's exploded due to speculation, manipulation, etc..  Basically, supply volatility has been converted to price volatility; you can still get the parts, but you might not be so willing to buy them.  The downside being, buyers still just need the goddamned parts, parts that aren't able to be used while they're being held -- overall utility has dropped.  It would seem, if this process can be conducted by, say, futures instead -- assigning stock ownership without restricting the flow of actual product -- utility can be maintained while still using market forces to self-regulate supply/demand/price.  Maybe that's not worth the overhead, I don't know.

But yeah, point is, you can prepare for that in many ways.  You can hold zero stock, and be 100% at the mercy of speculation.  You can hold some stock, and sometimes be at the mercy of scalpers, and sometimes hold too much stock yourself.  Or you can hold all the stock, and waste a lot of money up front -- but be prepared for the inevitable, and survive where all your competitors die of drought.

Notice the underlying assumption here: that there is a continuum between no stock and all stock, and that there exists a global minima between those extremes.  And if no minima exists -- then simple as that, it seems JIT doesn't apply to your market.

I can imagine markets where each option is feasible.  Like uh, food production, anything that's perishable, I mean you don't have any choice there, right?  At best you can freeze it, but freezing degrades the quality some, and that won't be acceptable for every product.  Can't exactly make a salad from frozen spinach blocks.  Most manufactured goods, probably somewhere inbetween, hence the automotive origin.  Probably, something with low quantity production, but very volatile supply, would fit in the stocking category; the most volatile electronic components might be examples, like flavor-of-the-year RF transistors, or LCDs.  Companies like Newhaven make a lot of money doing this (at least, I assume -- this is a rather big assumption, granted, but so as to say, it's a possible process by which they function), making displays and such available consistently to western markets---at some markup of course.

And, the above responses give some more examples and perspectives on all this, too. :-+

Tim
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Offline Kasper

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Re: How is Chipageddon affecting you?
« Reply #801 on: March 23, 2022, 07:27:22 pm »
So you are saying JIT means 'just in time when everything goes wrong'?
Who but an idiot would say that?

Is this better? JIT: Just in time when a reasonable amount of things go wrong?

Well, pessimistic is better than misrepresentational.
[...]
Is this what you are proposing as the alternative?  Surely not!

What I'm proposing is a few laughs at the expense of a name that does not seem to accurately describe its system.  Not sure why coppice is so offended by this.

I think a name for a system like JIT should describe the way it operates in average conditions.  If JIT means having just enough to make it through surges in demand and or droughts in supply then JIT is not describing the way it operates in average conditions.

Maybe it should be called JABE: 'just a bit early'.  Since that seems to be the goal: a bit early in average conditions and just in time when a reasonable amount of things go wrong.

Calling a surge in demand 'things going wrong' could sound pessimistic in a broader business sense since extra demand could mean extra sales which is usually a good thing but from an inventory standpoint I think it is suitable. 
 
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Offline JPortici

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Re: How is Chipageddon affecting you?
« Reply #802 on: March 23, 2022, 07:34:47 pm »
Maybe it should be called JABE

HEY. That's NOT a TLA  >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
 

Offline Kasper

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Re: How is Chipageddon affecting you?
« Reply #803 on: March 23, 2022, 07:38:23 pm »
Maybe it should be called JABE

HEY. That's NOT a TLA  >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(

JBE: just bit early?
 

Offline TimFox

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Re: How is Chipageddon affecting you?
« Reply #804 on: March 23, 2022, 07:38:45 pm »
Repeating a statement from above,
If a large company mandates "JIT" from smaller companies supplying components, then the smaller companies need to maintain an inventory to ensure they can meet the contractual requirement with the larger company.
You often see this with a cluster of small parts companies clustered around a large company's automotive assembly plant, where the parts plants are essentially captive to the larger company.
 
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Offline IDEngineer

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Re: How is Chipageddon affecting you?
« Reply #805 on: March 23, 2022, 08:10:14 pm »
HEY. That's NOT a TLA  >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
Neither are PROM, EPROM, EEPROM, CAFE, BATF....
 

Offline IDEngineer

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Re: How is Chipageddon affecting you?
« Reply #806 on: March 23, 2022, 08:23:30 pm »
If a large company mandates "JIT" from smaller companies supplying components, then the smaller companies need to maintain an inventory to ensure they can meet the contractual requirement with the larger company. You often see this with a cluster of small parts companies clustered around a large company's automotive assembly plant, where the parts plants are essentially captive to the larger company.
And thus we see that JIT really means "outsource the problem to the supplier". If the inventory isn't cached in YOUR stockroom, but you still demand low latency, then it's cached in a nearby stockroom. You have outsourced the overhead to your vendor.

I promise it all gets paid for, though. It may look on the books like you're saving money, but that's only because your reduced carrying costs for in-house inventory are offset by increased prices from your vendors. Square footage costs money. Salaries have to be paid. Taxes on finished goods still come due. You're paying them, even if it's not called out as a separate line item on some MBA's spreadsheet. (Note this exactly parallels the concept of corporate income taxes. Stupid, stupid, stupid. The consumer pays ALL taxes without exception; corporations cannot fabricate tax payments out of thin air, so they raise the prices of their products to cover the expenses including taxes. It's a shell game, pure and simple, which politicians understand and most voters do not.)

There's another parallel with electric vehicles. You may not be emitting byproducts in your neighborhood, but unless 100% of the electricity is coming from nonconsumable sources like solar and wind those byproducts are being emitted somewhere. EV's outsource the overhead (pollution, power plant eyesores, etc.) to someone else's neighborhood.

Much of life is just shell games moving details around so someone somewhere looks better on paper.
 
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Offline TimFox

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Re: How is Chipageddon affecting you?
« Reply #807 on: March 23, 2022, 08:30:06 pm »
One slight disagreement with your point about EVs:
If the power to charge EVs comes from centralized power plants, it may be more practicable to control the emissions at large plants (subject to regulatory verification) than to control exhaust emissions from smaller vehicles.
 
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Offline Sal Ammoniac

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Re: How is Chipageddon affecting you?
« Reply #808 on: March 23, 2022, 08:34:17 pm »
There's another parallel with electric vehicles. You may not be emitting byproducts in your neighborhood, but unless 100% of the electricity is coming from nonconsumable sources like solar and wind those byproducts are being emitted somewhere. EV's outsource the overhead (pollution, power plant eyesores, etc.) to someone else's neighborhood.

Not in my case. My EV is charged 100% with solar. The buck stops here.
"That's not even wrong" -- Wolfgang Pauli
 

Offline nctnico

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Re: How is Chipageddon affecting you?
« Reply #809 on: March 23, 2022, 08:59:39 pm »
One slight disagreement with your point about EVs:
If the power to charge EVs comes from centralized power plants, it may be more practicable to control the emissions at large plants (subject to regulatory verification) than to control exhaust emissions from smaller vehicles.
Offtopic: Unfortunately it doesn't work that way because filtering and emission controls on a power plant are hugely expensive and older power plants are difficult to retrofit. With the Dutch energy mix (about 10% coal), BEVs emit 5 times more SO2 compared to a Toyota Prius (or similar efficient hybrid). NOx emissions for a BEV are just on the euro6 norm's edge. The SO2 emissions are largely due to the use of coal. You'll need to reduce the amount of coal-based electricity to low single digit percentages to get a BEV on par with Toyota Prius where it comes to SO2. Fuels for cars may contain up to 10ppm of Sulphur in most countries in the world (even in China) so the SO2 emissions from cars are relatively low already (less is always better ofcourse). NOx emissions are the result from both coal and natural gas burning so switching to natural gas doesn't help there.

This is one of the cases where you really need to do the math and use the underbelly only for the one thing it can really indicate: when it is dinner time.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2022, 12:28:57 am by nctnico »
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 
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Offline TimFox

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Re: How is Chipageddon affecting you?
« Reply #810 on: March 23, 2022, 09:07:34 pm »
 

Offline nctnico

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Re: How is Chipageddon affecting you?
« Reply #811 on: March 23, 2022, 09:09:02 pm »
Recent data trends in US:  https://www.epa.gov/airmarkets/power-plant-emission-trends
That doesn't say anything. You'll need to calculate the emissions per kWh and convert those to the weight emitted per distance travelled. Same for emissions from an efficient hybrid. Again: this needs math. Sulphur contents of fuel has been reduced as well during the same time period that the graphs span. For example: between 1995 and now the sulphur content of diesel fuel for cars is 0.5% of what it was (reduction factor: 200) while -according to the graphs you linked to- emissions from power plants are 8% of what it was in 1995 (reduction factor: 12.5).
« Last Edit: March 23, 2022, 09:46:51 pm by nctnico »
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline nctnico

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Re: How is Chipageddon affecting you?
« Reply #812 on: March 23, 2022, 09:29:04 pm »
If a large company mandates "JIT" from smaller companies supplying components, then the smaller companies need to maintain an inventory to ensure they can meet the contractual requirement with the larger company. You often see this with a cluster of small parts companies clustered around a large company's automotive assembly plant, where the parts plants are essentially captive to the larger company.
And thus we see that JIT really means "outsource the problem to the supplier". If the inventory isn't cached in YOUR stockroom, but you still demand low latency, then it's cached in a nearby stockroom. You have outsourced the overhead to your vendor.
Not quite. The real problem is that companies have a tendency to implement JIT the wrong way by having no stock at all and order when it is too late. Half JIT is no JIT. JIT is also about supply chain management and making sure suppliers get orders far enough in advance so they can secure (raw) materials.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 
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Offline fourfathom

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Re: How is Chipageddon affecting you?
« Reply #813 on: March 23, 2022, 09:41:40 pm »
And thus we see that JIT really means "outsource the problem to the supplier". If the inventory isn't cached in YOUR stockroom, but you still demand low latency, then it's cached in a nearby stockroom. You have outsourced the overhead to your vendor.

Yes and no.  The supplier presumably is providing goods to many different customers, each with somewhat different delivery requirements, and those uncorrelated product deliveries should allow for more efficient inventory management at the supplier.  Of course this all crashes when the various customers are reacting in common to global events and the demand becomes correlated after all.
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Offline IDEngineer

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Re: How is Chipageddon affecting you?
« Reply #814 on: March 23, 2022, 09:42:03 pm »
Not in my case. My EV is charged 100% with solar. The buck stops here.
Congrats. Your example is why I said "unless 100% of the electricity is coming from nonconsumable sources like solar and wind". Unfortunately, yours is the extreme exception. In the vast majority of cases across the globe, the overhead of battery charging is being outsourced (read: relocated) to someone else's neighborhood. Whether that is a good thing probably depends on which neighborhood you live in. That neatly correlates two subthreads via another non-three-letter acronym: NIMBY.   8)
 
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Offline peter-h

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Re: How is Chipageddon affecting you?
« Reply #815 on: March 25, 2022, 09:32:42 am »
Just received 500 x ST 32F417, from a UK disti.

Only last week they said they have no idea if/when they will get some.

To me this looks like the whole edifice is about to collapse but the mfgs want to maintain the current silly prices for as long as possible.
Z80 Z180 Z280 Z8 S8 8031 8051 H8/300 H8/500 80x86 90S1200 32F417
 

Online tom66

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Re: How is Chipageddon affecting you?
« Reply #816 on: March 26, 2022, 08:49:57 pm »
Offtopic: Unfortunately it doesn't work that way because filtering and emission controls on a power plant are hugely expensive and older power plants are difficult to retrofit. With the Dutch energy mix (about 10% coal), BEVs emit 5 times more SO2 compared to a Toyota Prius (or similar efficient hybrid). NOx emissions for a BEV are just on the euro6 norm's edge. The SO2 emissions are largely due to the use of coal. You'll need to reduce the amount of coal-based electricity to low single digit percentages to get a BEV on par with Toyota Prius where it comes to SO2. Fuels for cars may contain up to 10ppm of Sulphur in most countries in the world (even in China) so the SO2 emissions from cars are relatively low already (less is always better ofcourse). NOx emissions are the result from both coal and natural gas burning so switching to natural gas doesn't help there.

This is one of the cases where you really need to do the math and use the underbelly only for the one thing it can really indicate: when it is dinner time.

Offtopic response:  Arguably SOx and NOx emissions of power plants are less of a concern even if greater in quantity.  NO2 is a problem in cities because it is relatively dense (~1.8g/L) compared to ordinary air (~1.25g/L), which means that it tends to float close to the ground around busy roads, intersections etc.  It is less of an issue when it is spewed into higher altitudes from the exhaust of a power plant. Power plants are often located in areas with lower population densities, too.  You can clearly observe in the data that city centers have much higher NOx levels than areas around power plants, with air quality measurement available for many areas now.

All the more reason, nonetheless, to avoid fossil fuels at all - whether powering a BEV or not - but that will take time.  In the meantime, don't let perfect be the enemy of 'much better'.
 

Offline MT

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Re: How is Chipageddon affecting you?
« Reply #817 on: March 31, 2022, 02:20:40 pm »
No more distorted Putin rock and roll!

Brands now affected by the export ban EHX family of tube includes: Tung-Sol, Electro-Harmonix, EH Gold, Genalex Gold Lion, Mullard, Svetlana and Sovtek.
Chinese tubes now in for price hikin.

Mike Matthews, the owner of Electro Harmonix qoute:

Yesterday, Russia imposed a ban on the export of some 200 goods in response to the sanctions imposed on it over the current conflict in Ukraine. We have confirmed that the ban applies to our seven brands of Russian tubes. Currently, the ban is set to remain in effect until the end of the calendar year.

Given this export ban, we will not be receiving any further tube inventory for these brands. A myriad of pressures — including continued strains on the supply chain, escalating internal expenses, mounting inflation, and an ever-evolving legal landscape (particularly in light of the Ukraine conflict) — have created a very fluid and ambiguous environment. Until we can properly assess the impact of these factors, we will not honor any new orders or ship any more Russian tubes on back order.

Rock & Roll,
Mike Matthews
Founder & President
« Last Edit: March 31, 2022, 02:24:33 pm by MT »
 

Offline peter-h

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Re: How is Chipageddon affecting you?
« Reply #818 on: March 31, 2022, 03:23:49 pm »
You should not make fun of this.

Valves produce a high grade of distortion: 25% second harmonic. This is much sought after by music connoisseurs - the same people who pay $500 for $0.50 chinese interconnects.

This is very serious!

I've known people trying to emulate this with LM318s, with a couple of back to back 1N4148s in the feedback, unsuccessfully.

Is Mullard a Russian brand now?
Z80 Z180 Z280 Z8 S8 8031 8051 H8/300 H8/500 80x86 90S1200 32F417
 

Offline PaulAm

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Re: How is Chipageddon affecting you?
« Reply #819 on: March 31, 2022, 04:11:00 pm »
In a separate thread I brought up that Western Electric is looking at expanding their line of vacuum tubes.  They currently make the 300b (at ~$700USD each) so already have the manufacturing technology in place.  The market abhors a vacuum, to paraphrase, so someone will step up.  You don't need a billion dollar fab to make tubes (as the video in the other thread of the French guy making tubes from scratch in his home shop aptly shows)

I wouldn't be surprised to see some artisinal producers crop up to meet the need.
 
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Offline TimFox

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Re: How is Chipageddon affecting you?
« Reply #820 on: March 31, 2022, 04:23:24 pm »
The importers of Russian tubes bought up the trademarks for Mullard, Tung-Sol, Genalex, and other classic tube brands years ago.
Sovtek and Svetlana are brand names that always meant Russian production.
Yes, one can bias a single tube to produce 25% THD, but I can do that with a badly-biased semiconductor as well.
Two 6550 beam-power tubes in push-pull "ultra-linear" can give 70 W output at 2.5% THD (before applying feedback).
Two 300B triodes in push-pull can give 20 W at 2.0% THD (again, before applying feedback).
 

Online tom66

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Re: How is Chipageddon affecting you?
« Reply #821 on: March 31, 2022, 06:59:00 pm »
Surely tube distortion is understood well enough that someone could implement it in a DSP block.  I get the 'cool factor' of having real tubes but that only goes so far.
 

Offline TimFox

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Re: How is Chipageddon affecting you?
« Reply #822 on: March 31, 2022, 07:00:37 pm »
As one of my professors (a German national) once said, "You could also put your pants on with tongs."
 
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Offline coppice

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Re: How is Chipageddon affecting you?
« Reply #823 on: March 31, 2022, 08:52:34 pm »
Surely tube distortion is understood well enough that someone could implement it in a DSP block.  I get the 'cool factor' of having real tubes but that only goes so far.
A lot of guitar amp simulation in DSP is going exactly that.
 

Offline jrs45

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Re: How is Chipageddon affecting you?
« Reply #824 on: April 02, 2022, 04:36:34 pm »
Surely tube distortion is understood well enough that someone could implement it in a DSP block.  I get the 'cool factor' of having real tubes but that only goes so far.

Even plenty of "tube amps" do this.  The tube is just for show.
 


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